137 replies to this topic

[Bluttrunken]

Prosperity Park, on 12 March 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

The sensor tree contains 5 modules and costs less than 2 million CBills. It is now possible to stack sensor range, seismic, retention, decay, and redar derp at once (previously impossible).

New players can master their first Mech with NO HOOPS to jump through (no 3 mech minimum, no GXP unlocks, needing ~15 million cbills to get enough modules for one mech). And they can get the "mandatory equipment" (radar derp and seismic) with less than 1/3 of their nodes.

Experienced players get ALL their GXP and XP back and all Cbills spent on modules.

4.1 million to Master a Mech is a fair deal, I say. I do not see that as an unfair grind. I do not see this as a disaster.

Even though I'll probably won't have enough to master all my mechs again, the reduction in costs was enough for me to give the skill tree a go.

I agree we also need to see this from a different perspective. The change makes this game much more accessible to new players. They will have a much better experience. A better introduction to the game follows better retention. Better retention has a positive impact on the game in general in regards to the player pool; match waiting times, ongoing funding of the game and conclusively additional funding for new content.

[Deathlike]

Chances are there will always be someone leaving over a bad decision... no matter what.

The difference is always by how much. So, if the wheel is spinning longer than it should on patch day... I hope you enjoy the experience, because everyone will experience it... together.

[Verkhne]

I am just chilling regarding the upcoming changes. With module return ( and node cost adjustment )it will be largely self-financing. IS mechs I expect to be hugely buffed with new tech. Am I sad about my 240 dollar clan packs..sure but expect a whole new game by summer..( will need some high mount IS mechs..!!)

[Lupis Volk]

Deathlike, on 12 March 2017 - 01:25 PM, said:

Chances are there will always be someone leaving over a bad decision... no matter what.

The difference is always by how much. So, if the wheel is spinning longer than it should on patch day... I hope you enjoy the experience, because everyone will experience it... together.

Share the pain comrade. For the state. It will benefit all. ;p

[50 50]

I'm curious.
Do people go and make these videos about other games they play saying why they are going to quit or it they will quit or that something bothers them? I mean, is that common?

[Y E O N N E]

50 50, on 12 March 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

I'm curious.
Do people go and make these videos about other games they play saying why they are going to quit or it they will quit or that something bothers them? I mean, is that common?

Looking at the broad level of playing ability in this game, the amount of kvetching over common bread-and-butter mechanics like hold-to-charge and dynamic accuracy, I would wager that very few play other games at all.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 12 March 2017 - 01:32 PM.

[Dr Mlem]

50 50, on 12 March 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

I'm curious.
Do people go and make these videos about other games they play saying why they are going to quit or it they will quit or that something bothers them? I mean, is that common?

Some people if the main draw to their channel do make videos saying they will quit. Since they need to inform their main audience about upcoming changes. And unless the channel started as a mix gaming channel, viewers tend to dislike the other content on a channel.

[Y E O N N E]

Even happened with Overwatch. Everybody said the Bastion changes were OP. They went ahead and pushed them to the main server. Screams of agony abounded, and now they are rolling the changes back.

[FupDup]

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 01:40 PM, said:

Wait, they screwed with Bastion? What did they do, exactly?

• More spread in turret mode
  
• No more headshots in turret mode
  
• 35% damage resistance in turret and tank mode (nerfed to 20% now)
  
• 5 more bullets in your clip for recon mode
  
• Tighter recon mode spread
  
• Can use repair while mobile and while under fire
  
• Repair now has a limited resource that recharges, like D.va's Defense Matrix

Edited by FupDup, 12 March 2017 - 01:42 PM.

[Mystere]

Vyx, on 12 March 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Everyone complaining seems to think they are due something for having bought into the game.

Mystere, on 12 March 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Everyone?

Vyx, on 12 March 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

A "whale" is due no more than a "cheapskate". You get what you pay for; each has received what they bought.

If you buy a car from a dealership, do you expect gifts throughout the year? Maybe they should buy your gasoline? Or perhaps take you to lunch? Get real.

I don't know about car dealerships, but I do know a thing or two about how restaurants treat their regular customers ... Yum! Yum! ... Burp!

Edited by Mystere, 12 March 2017 - 01:49 PM.

[oldradagast]

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

You assert that this will somehow improve the new player experience, and I really, REALLY don't see that. I see new players getting caught in "noobtraps" with the profusion of bad skill tree choices, I see new players being disgusted with how crappy their newly-purchased mechs feel and not really wanting to stick around long enough to squirk them fully.

That happened to people I know - people who play far more "hard-core" games than MWO. They clearly have the ability to become good at MWO, and they liked the concept, but the game's mess of a NPE and general slap-dash nature and often brutally short, one-sided matches turned them off to it. Again, these are people who play games far more serious than MWO (Starcraft 2, DOTA 2, etc.), but this game's stumbling nature killed their interest.

I don't see how a tangled skill maze full of false choices is going to fix that. Same with a vast increase in the number of useless mechs thanks to the removal of critical Quirks from so many mechs, IS ones in particular. Once these changes go live, the gap between the "good stuff" in the game and the trash will grow even as the amount of trash itself increases: bad mechs, bad skills, and so on. That's bad for the game.

[oldradagast]

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Restaurants thrive on engendering customer loyalty. PGI has pretty much done everything it can to spit in the faces of its most loyal customers. If MWO were a restaurant they'd have gone out of business a while ago, frankly.

Don't worry - once they wave another mech-pack, maybe one full of rotary autocannons and snob-nose PPC's with early-release pay-to-win marketing, in front of people, the white knights and poke-mech people will throw their money at the screen... again. And PGI will laugh. Not only have they moved beyond needing to provide real content, they can actually take things away from people (your progress on your mechs, the quirks that make so many mechs playable, etc.) and they'll still give them money.

Still, even with the full support of those customers, the long road for MWO is going to be rough at this point. The Skill Maze won't bring a single new player into the game, but it will turn people away from playing and - more importantly - from spending.

Edited by oldradagast, 12 March 2017 - 02:01 PM.

[Mystere]

Probably Not, on 12 March 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Restaurants thrive on engendering customer loyalty. PGI has pretty much done everything it can to spit in the faces of its most loyal customers. If MWO were a restaurant they'd have gone out of business a while ago, frankly.

Yeah, I don't really get why some people use car dealerships as an analogy for MWO when restaurants seem much more appropriate.

[oldradagast]

Mystere, on 12 March 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

Yeah, I don't really get why some people use car dealerships as an analogy for MWO when restaurants seem much more appropriate.

True. A car dealership - one big time purchase of a known quantity - is more like traditional release games, where you buy the DVD, CD, or whatever, and that's what you get, barring add-on content later. MWO is more like a restaurant, with constant smaller transactions, in theory.

[Dr Mlem]

oldradagast, on 12 March 2017 - 02:03 PM, said:

True. A car dealership - one big time purchase of a known quantity - is more like traditional release games, where you buy the DVD, CD, or whatever, and that's what you get, barring add-on content later. MWO is more like a restaurant, with constant smaller transactions, in theory.

I think people would like to wish it was a car dealership. A one time transaction (which would be nice). Alas, its a restaurant. And this one serves questionable food at times. But much like the only ****** restaurant in a small town, its the only place to eat. The best I can do is not do business, or give my input into the menu.

They'd probably toss me out of the restaurant, thinking about it.

tl;dr: The car analogy always irked me.

[Aiden Skye]

Not sure who OP is....or why I should care.

[Cato Phoenix]

Rampage, on 12 March 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

It sounds to me like you are just looking for a reason to justify your anger. Did you even listen to the Podcast? He was talking about spending or not spending C-Bills on modules. There was absolutely nothing said about people spending or not spending money in the game. You are willfully taking it out of context.

You're missing the context. I don't think his comment was that meant maliciously, as I've posted elsewhere. An unwitting insult. But it shows he's out of touch - the player base that most supports his company was looking to him for answers and got a cold glass of water in the face - even if it was unintentional.

We were discussing skill tree cost, specifically in the cases of people who are Mech prolific and module slim. Many of these people are those very same who spent the most actual money- mechpack after mechpack that they are now worried about. Others who might have grinded a ton of cbills but pursued mech purchases (and mechbays). It doesn't matter that it wasn't malicious.

It struck a nerve because people feel strongly about a game they've supported monetarily, they feel their enjoyment of that investment is threatened, and are tired of seeing the person in charge bumble around with the decisions.

Personally I'm glad he's addressing cost, and I don't think lambasting him for the comment is helpful. But guess what, you don't get to negate other people's feelings, either. People are heavily invested in this game; treating your fellow players with disdain because you don't feel as passionately about the issue isn't productive either.

Incidentally, in -no- way are either of those groups cheapskates for not buying modules. Mechs are the cool things, remember, and modifying them to no end. I am one of those nostalgia members - I spent hours on hours in mechlab in MW2 as a kid before I ever figured out how to drop in the campaign. The modules were a nice addition, and cherry on top. But in no ways necessary to make your mech functional. It just means that those players spent c-bills on other stuff. Which I mean - its their space bucks. Obviously, there's some sweet spot in the price point to be found.

[DrxAbstract]

He's disgruntled because he wont have the pixel finances to 'Master' all his Mechs with the refunded spacebucks despite all the time he's invested... Did anyone else, after hearing FT say this, come to the conclusion if he's getting so little back, and is so poor to begin with, that he hasn't actually invested that much time in the game? Monetary investment for Mechs is entirely separate from skipping the 'grind' as that's what Premium Time and GXP Conversion are for... Did he spend $700 on those? No he did not - He bought Mechs. After buying those Mechs he obviously invested very little time actually playing them, otherwise he'd have the resources to Master them, resulting in the "WAH I didn't play much and don't have much because of it... WAH"... Really dude, it's your own bloody fault.

The only thing I agree with him on is the disparity between Mastered and Basic Mechs. Beyond that he's only got himself to blame. After 4 years and $940 with multiple 2-6 Month breaks I have 140 Mechs while getting at least 800 Million C-Bills refunded... FT gets no sympathy from me.

[Dr Mlem]

Cato Phoenix, on 12 March 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

You're missing the context. I don't think his comment was that meant maliciously, as I've posted elsewhere. An unwitting insult. But it shows he's out of touch - the player base that most supports his company was looking to him for answers and got a cold glass of water in the face - even if it was unintentional.

We were discussing skill tree cost, specifically in the cases of people who are Mech prolific and module slim. Many of these people are those very same who spent the most actual money- mechpack after mechpack that they are now worried about. Others who might have grinded a ton of cbills but pursued mech purchases (and mechbays). It doesn't matter that it wasn't malicious.

It struck a nerve because people feel strongly about a game they've supported monetarily, they feel their enjoyment of that investment is threatened, and are tired of seeing the person in charge bumble around with the decisions.

Personally I'm glad he's addressing cost, and I don't think lambasting him for the comment is helpful. But guess what, you don't get to negate other people's feelings, either. People are heavily invested in this game; treating your fellow players with disdain because you don't feel as passionately about the issue isn't productive either.

Incidentally, in -no- way are either of those groups cheapskates for not buying modules. Mechs are the cool things, remember, and modifying them to no end. I am one of those nostalgia members - I spent hours on hours in mechlab in MW2 as a kid before I ever figured out how to drop in the campaign. The modules were a nice addition, and cherry on top. But in no ways necessary to make your mech functional. It just means that those players spent c-bills on other stuff. Which I mean - its their space bucks. Obviously, there's some sweet spot in the price point to be found.

Completely agree, while yes it was a joke in poor taste. It was stupid to say the least, and not the brightest thing to say to an obviously incensed community.

The system was set up so that players could switch modules and save money. They are not to blame for behavior that PGI let them do. Thus I will never get the disdain for people wanting to save money, while collecting more mechs. It just made sense to them as players. Players will on average take the easiest route given to them, unless they enjoy the other path.

To be honest some the twitch chat was really uncalled for, and super vitriolic and mean for no point. People tend not to listen to you, if you swear and call someone a *******. (Who would of guessed?!)

While I don't agree with PGI's decisions a lot of times, I try to put myself in their shoes design wise and my own feelings as a player. And weigh out what I actually feel is my opinion. I find unfortunately that passion seems to rule a lot of peoples decisions on both sides. Because as people we are invested into something, especially something as awesome as Battletech!

That being said, even some of the staunches critics of PGI when not lashing out have had some legitimate concerns, that I've even agreed with. A good counterbalance and weighted response can go a really far way at least for community concerns.

[Ibrandul Mike]

[mod] I am closing this topic, as it got quite toxic.
After going through the reports that are active, regarding this topic,
I will move the topic to K-Town and open it up again.
[/mod]