13 replies to this topic

[Alexander of Macedon]

One of the primary difficulties in shifting to the skill tree system is in making it a 1:1 equivalency of "skill" as represented by the various unlocks and upgrades associated with a given 'mech. The biggest stumbling block is with people who only bought one or two sets of key modules and shifted them between 'mechs.

So, why not retain that functionality? The actual hexes in individual 'mech skill trees should be connected solely to exp in essentially the form that the PTS has it for exp costs now. However, shift the C-Bill costs to a thing (call 'em Skill Tokens or something) which are not 'mech-specific, which are used to activate unlocked skill hexes. Drop a token in to activate the bonus associated with a hex, pull it out and slot it into the skill tree of a different 'mech when you want to run that one.

Keep the per-token costs relatively low, enough so that buying a full 'mech's worth is about the cost of a module or two (because swapping out a full skill tree is more annoying than a couple modules). That way you replicate the ability of players to hotseat modules but also make acquiring new tokens cheap enough to do piecemeal (as opposed to saving up another 6m CB) and desirable (to remove the annoyance of swapping a bunch out) so that it's natural to gradually accumulate them.

That means that the people who only ran one or two sets of modules will still be able to kit out one or two 'mechs when we transfer, the people who had a ton of modules will be able to put together full dropdecks as they normally could, and it's easier for everyone to continually invest in the skill tree system without stressing about dropping a bunch of CB on a 'mech or group of skills that they might stop using after a week.

[Taxxian]

There is a much easier solution:

- raise the CBill cost per new mech mastery back to 6 millions
- refund all Modules
- give all mechs "historical CBills" based on how much XP they had: 3 Millions per old mastery and proportionally less if they were only elite or whatever

Now even players who did not have many modules will receive a substantial refund and PGI does not kill the economy because those Cbills are locked on the chassis and cannot be used to buy mechs and stuff...

Now they only need to implement "Solamas (+h) Skill Tree" and everyone lives happily ever after...

Should not take them more than 2 weeks + testing to implement this...

Edited by Taxxian, 17 March 2017 - 02:51 PM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

That's just a different iteration of the problem they're tackling: it forces people to pay 6m CB for every new 'mech they want to master when that isn't even remotely near necessary under the current system. And that's on top of buying the chassis and fitting it out. So you're talking anywhere from 9m to 20m+ CB for every single chassis you want to use, just to get it to the point of being competitive with a single build. If they implemented it like that I'd **** off for good and just content myself with the HBS BTech game and my copy of MechCommander.

Like, ****, man. I work for a living. I can't spend 8 hours a day grinding CB out, and neither can most of the people who play MWO.

Edited by Alexander of Macedon, 17 March 2017 - 03:26 PM.

[Taxxian]

Ok my (ok its copied from Kanjashi and Solama) proposal would solve 90% of all complaints about PGIs Skill Tree and people still threaten to quit... sorry but I have no more arguments...

Ok one Argument: You only need one mech per chassis, that saves you so much more than 6 millions...

[soapyfrog]

Increasing costs is in no way the answer. Increased costs hurt everyone, slow progression, make people less willing to spend money on MWO.

Why would I pay real money for a mech if it's still going to cost me 10-15 million to fit it out and complete it???? The whole point of paying money is to circumvent the c-Bill grind.

[Taxxian]

But leveling up stuff is the way we achieve progress...

Ok I play MRBC/BWO and maybe StarLeague one day and get my progress there, but 99% of the players do not do that... what are they going to do if there is 0 grind. Other games have levels, quest and stories but this game does not there is only aquiring new mechs and outfit + level them.

6 Millions is not much, 4 to 5 won FP games or 2 to 4 hours of QP matches... that is by no means to much to level one mech.

You will have to give a hint what you want players to do instead of leveling mechs...

Edited by Taxxian, 18 March 2017 - 01:30 AM.

[soapyfrog]

If you make levelling mechs take too long then people will buy less of the with c-bills or MC.

It's true though a lot of people need the carrot to chase for some reason, but I think the previous grind was plenty for most people.

I think FW territory and rep grind could be a carrot for most people, but it does not really exist in a meaningful form. Maybe they could work on that.

Maybe XP could be used to unlock patterns and colours for the mech, or special geometry.

Lots of ways to dangle a carrot if you think about it.

[Pjwned]

Taxxian, on 18 March 2017 - 01:29 AM, said:

But leveling up stuff is the way we achieve progress...

Ok I play MRBC/BWO and maybe StarLeague one day and get my progress there, but 99% of the players do not do that... what are they going to do if there is 0 grind. Other games have levels, quest and stories but this game does not there is only aquiring new mechs and outfit + level them.

6 Millions is not much, 4 to 5 won FP games or 2 to 4 hours of QP matches... that is by no means to much to level one mech.

You will have to give a hint what you want players to do instead of leveling mechs...

They could just...play the game and experiment in the mech lab without needing to add grind on top of that? Not that I expect that to happen in this game since it's a core aspect of the free2play business model, but grind isn't needed to keep it entertaining [Redacted].

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 20 March 2017 - 07:42 AM.
insult, unconstructive

[Burning2nd]

sitting on 60mil cbills... and about 4 trillion xp between my mechs...

then theres the 60+ modules....

I have no [Redacted] clue whats gonna happen

Edited by draiocht, 20 March 2017 - 07:43 AM.
inappropriate language

[Chound]

Burnin2nd, on 19 March 2017 - 02:06 PM, said:

sitting on 60mil cbills... and about 4 trillion xp between my mechs...

then theres the 60+ modules....

I have no [Redacted] clue whats gonna happen

one thing we do know is the XP, GXP and c bills spent on leveling and for the modules back. The problem is how to convert the mechs that have been "Mastered" with the new system. Some people use one module in all their different mechs but they will get. The two systems are not exactly the same.

Edited by draiocht, 20 March 2017 - 07:43 AM.
Quote Clean-Up

[Burning2nd]

Honestly i think this weapon add tomorrow is going to be the biggest change of all...

any time they change weapons... the entire game changes dramatically

[Chound]

soapyfrog, on 18 March 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

If you make levelling mechs take too long then people will buy less of the with c-bills or MC.

It's true though a lot of people need the carrot to chase for some reason, but I think the previous grind was plenty for most people.

I think FW territory and rep grind could be a carrot for most people, but it does not really exist in a meaningful form. Maybe they could work on that.

Maybe XP could be used to unlock patterns and colours for the mech, or special geometry.

Lots of ways to dangle a carrot if you think about it.

the last verion of the skill tree gave us 1 skill point is one node. each fully mastered mech should have 91 nodes to be placed
each skills unlocked in the old system for mechs and weapons and one SP for every skill earned pilot skill so a range for SPL range would be 5 sps and a SPL cooldown range 3 would get 3 SPs. each module would also be one node but each mech would be one node. up to 91 nodes. As far as new players coming in the XP. gxp and Cbills will be used to unlock nodes for SP if it is repeced then the number of SP is kept but maybe a small charge in Cbills to activate any nodes unlocked maybe 1k cbills to reactivate an unlocked node, locked nodes the normal price for unlocking/activating a node applies. Activation should be a small change to encourage flexibility and being able to change the mechs configuration. Mechwarrior online the "mastering" the mech isn't the end goal but an improving tool way a soldier might be upgrades to his rifle light targetting scopes different types of ammo. The main event is the combat either alone or in groups faction play based on lore and the Lore rules is used. For just fooling around maybe throw the book out the window. I said this in a post elsewhere. Change quickplay to Galetea Games

. Set in 3220, comstar troops invaded and captured the planet Galatea and used it as a private mech training grounds the comstar technicians, worked for years to create a conversion kit that allowed clan tech to use in inner sphere mechs. certain items like heat sinks used information brought back from Taskforce Serpent and a few clan techniians to build factories under comstar authority, so the basic things like heat sinks and double heat sinks are the same as clan heat sinks, bolts rivets screws and other things to make clan tech in the inner sphere. These new Mechs look the same but weigh 20% less and were rassigned accordingly. youdesign your mech in the mech lab and send the design to the computer where it will calculate the vaious values needed for the mech design to be used in the tactical simulator. When ready select the style of combat location and group size. there will be a numerical counter of the number of players using the system and which maps/styles have been created and you can select a group size based on that information. If you want a quick match you can just pick something that has players almost ready to go. If you want a certain group size you can wait until the proper number of players are ready. If you get Tired of waiting you can go back and make new selections.

[Athom83]

Burnin2nd, on 20 March 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

Honestly i think this weapon add tomorrow is going to be the biggest change of all...

*July

[Burning2nd]

yeah sorry... july