18 replies to this topic

[Whiskey Peddler]

Don't know if it is my loadouts, the low slung arms, my "facetime", torso twisting, or that people focus fire on me constantly, but I suck when piloting a Timberwolf...help?

I have higher damage averages and better K/D with the HBR, EBJ, and HMN than I do with my TBR. I have nearly 500 games under my belt and have hit a "wall" on improvement on both my match scores and Pilot Tier advancement. My damage averages between 250-350 across my 5 owned mechs.

I feel much more squishy in my TBR than I do in any of my other owned mechs.

[Rogue Jedi]

the main factor which can make the Timber Wolf feel less durable than those other Mechs is target priority.

The Timber Wolf (Mad Cat) is widely concidered to be one of the best Mechs in the game, thus they are one of the highest priority targets in the game, as in if I see HBR, EBJ, HMN and TBR moving together I would shoot the Timber first as that is the most dangerous of those Mechs, as such to do well in a Timber you need to be more careful than those other Mechs.

Mechs which I would shoot before a Timber are Kodiak, Dire Wolf, Marauder IIC, Warhammer and Atlas so if you want your Timber to suvive longer stand next to one of those.

[Nerd Incognito]

I agree with Rogue Jedi. I would also add that the TBR suffers from easy targets on its RT and LT, particularly if you're running any sort of missile loadout. Those big, mickey-mouse ears just scream "shoot me."

One thing I really had to learn was to stay closer to the group and become a better judge of when to push out and drop an alpha strike on someone, and when to pull back and let them target someone else. I'm still really working on that.

"Follow the Atlas" remains great advice. Have a tank to soak up damage with you, and pop out to core them.

[Saint Atlas and the Commando Elf]

I agree with both answers above.

IMHO the fault lies with all the people promoting the TBR in numerous advice-threads.

The TBR _is_ a very good mech, just not a very good beginner mech. And here's why:

- TBR has quite a good profile and hitboxes but only when it's run without the big ears. And that's just what newer players do. They slap LRM's on everything.

-TBR spends a lot of its tonnage on the engine. So its very mobile for a mech that heavy. Newer players just don't utilize that strength. They don't move or flank, because they lack the positional awareness. As this is understandable, it is also a waste of tonnage. If you play defensively and stay with the team (or even behind) around 70kph would suffice.

-The target priority. But that has already been covered.

Side note: The TBR received omnipod set-boni in one of the last patches. I would have never expected that. If PGI based its decision on some kind of ingame performance monitoring, then I have to conclude that all the new players choosing the TBR as one of their first mechs have brought the chassis down.

[Faellun Freeman]

Im too inexperienced to give advice but I will tell you that my game has really turned around for the better since I bought the TBR-S.

Are you peeking out for shots from the same place more than once or running out in the open away from your teammates and getting focused down? Maybe flanking solo? The Timber Wolf can take some hits unless you get caught in a bad spot where three or more opponents can focus on you.

Edited = I just noticed youre tier 4 and im only tier 5. I really had no business asking a more experienced player those questions. Feel free to disregard them.

Edited by Faellun Freeman, 21 March 2017 - 01:38 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I always found the Hellbringer and Ebon Jaguar to be much better than the Timber Wolf. Hellbringer has better hitboxes and ECM so its durability is through the roofs if you're just a little sneaky and peek well. Ebon Jaguar has superior hardpoint locations so it can peek over hills better and fire off huge alphas, the low profile nature of the mech helps out a lot.

Meanwhile I've found Timber Wolves very easy to focus components off of. Even without the huge missile torsos their shoulders are very exposed from any angle and easy to tear off and their CT nose cone is exposed even if they twist 90 degrees. On top of this they got stuck with the title of "best clan heavy mech" mostly because its iconic, it was the first good clan heavy (Hellbringer came next then Ebon Jag came after that), its recommended to new players all the time with decent builds that can clear out low tiers easily, and its a decent mech, so it ends up being a target that people focus down instead of the more heavily armed Ebon Jaguar that would die faster and thus be a better target to shoot at or the Hellbringer which no one ever even notices because its hidden by ECM when it makes its kills.

The only thing the Timber Wolf really does better than the Hellbringer or Ebon Jaguar is brawl with a mix of SRMs and small pulse lasers, in laser poking the Hellbringer beats it in stealth and matches firepower and the Ebon Jaguar beats it in firepower and hardpoint height. If you're brawling in a Clan 75 tonner the Orion IIC-A is superior to the Timber Wolf there due to better hitboxes, shield arms, and fully frontloaded damage (LBX20+4ASRM6).

Timber Wolf is my lowest performing Clan heavy, its the only one that I own with a KDR under 1, some of them are over 4 KDR in comparison. I can definitely say I have my reasons for disliking them, they probably work great for some people, but for others they're trash.

Here's my Clan heavy mech stats to show you the difference.

Spoiler

[Barkem Squirrel]

That is the same feeling I get in the Timber wolf.

To mitigate that I run beside other higher priority mechs, wiggle the nose a bit to let the side torsos take some of the front on damage or give a side profile to sacrifice the torso and arm that do not have weapons in them or a just a few. Now LRMs in the timby, I run them or SRM's, but even I can hit them with ERLL's or LL's at 1000m playing at 6 to 14 fps.

one other way is to look at the omni pod's that have structure or armor quirks and use them. I think it is the C Mad dog torso's and arms that have armor buffs and they help.

Even the hellbringer with LRMs will almost always lose the right torso due to the LRM box on top, but with dual UAC5's nope.


These ceilings exist and it is good that you noticed it. Now just assess yourself. Do you die often early, are you one of the last ones alive. What play stile are you better at, what do you like to run and they can differ. Do you experiment with LRM, Dakka, SRM boat, Laser vomit, and then the Gauss & PPC jump tart meta. In PUG's do you talk in voip? Remember team work = victory.

I have seen these before, but one for a LRM boat pilot was going on murder sprees, then seeing no other LRM boat and having very bad matches. I repeated that maybe 5 times under the old ELO system. Then one day changed a bit how I played. (trying to LRM under 300 m and being very aggressive with LRMs) and I stayed in that zone where no one used LRMs for a long time. Then some issues happened with torso phasing from right to left that I still fight to this day.

Then under the ELO system in tier 5 I noticed the passive play, so I went hyper aggressive in LRM boats and would lead charges. As they ran away for some reason I made sure they stayed 200 m away and made them run farther. I can not remember much of tier 4 due to going through it so fast. Now I just pull out the Mist lynx when I get close to tier 2.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Remember armor is finite, but terrain is infinite.

Use terrain to your advantage. Especially since the TBR is a highly mobile heavy weapons platform.

Only expose when it's time to, and only do it for as long as needed.

(I am not saying to hide and leave your allies to die for you, just don't stand out in the open and think being a heavy mech is just as survivable as the mountain your standing on).

Edited by Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, 21 March 2017 - 02:21 PM.

[Metus regem]

The Timby is actually a solid mech, but she is not with out issues....



As you can see the Hit boxes are okay at best with out the missile launchers, but doe the twist speed, twist range and the fact that engine size is directly linked to agility takes these average hit boxes and turns them into solid hit boxes.

Now all that being said, the TImber Wolf is probably the last mech I would recommend learning with, as it doesn't punish you for making mistakes... it's too forgiving. Because it is too forgiving it will not force you to learn good piloting and gunnery skills... this means when you go to other mechs you will likely find your performance taking a hit, as you got used to a mech that didn't force you to grow as a pilot.


Now on to your specific issues, it may feel more squishy as the Timber Wolf tends to draw a lot of fire, and with a CT you can hit from any angel it's not that hard to take it out either. The other problem you may be running into is the lower arms on the Timber Wolf may be putting shots into the poor terrain hit boxes on a lot of maps.


All that being said, perhaps you are just not compatible with the Timber Wolf, I myself am not compatible with the Storm Crow...

[Malrock]

I bought the timberwolf because it is iconic and I suffered much of the same fate you did. Didn't really enjoy the chasis and felt like the locked in jump jets and super big engine were holding me back. I later realized it was also not good at boating my favorite weapon systems UAC's unless you get the Warrant. The Warrant does actually let you fire off two uac 10's i think. Consequently Most of my timbers sit in my garage collecting dust. Warrant is the only one that gets some play. Conversely I have really enjoyed the Ebon Jaguar. Some mechs just fit better than others. I wanted to like the timby but it just wasn't a good fit for me, and may not be a good fit for you either.

[R E S P E K]

In re: hit boxes.

Avoid using the Timmy A left torso.
I know its tempting, 3 high mounted energy points, right?
Bad idea.
Anybody worth their salt is going to go right for that big box that is now sitting on your shoulder and POOF- no more side torso.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Metus regem, on 21 March 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

The Timby is actually a solid mech, but she is not with out issues....



As you can see the Hit boxes are okay at best with out the missile launchers, but doe the twist speed, twist range and the fact that engine size is directly linked to agility takes these average hit boxes and turns them into solid hit boxes.

Now all that being said, the TImber Wolf is probably the last mech I would recommend learning with, as it doesn't punish you for making mistakes... it's too forgiving. Because it is too forgiving it will not force you to learn good piloting and gunnery skills... this means when you go to other mechs you will likely find your performance taking a hit, as you got used to a mech that didn't force you to grow as a pilot.


Now on to your specific issues, it may feel more squishy as the Timber Wolf tends to draw a lot of fire, and with a CT you can hit from any angel it's not that hard to take it out either. The other problem you may be running into is the lower arms on the Timber Wolf may be putting shots into the poor terrain hit boxes on a lot of maps.


All that being said, perhaps you are just not compatible with the Timber Wolf, I myself am not compatible with the Storm Crow...

One other thing I'd like to mention is that once engine size is decoupled from torso twist speeds, the Timber Wolf is really going to fall apart. It already suffers from half the mounts being low, pretty bad hitboxes (unshieldable CT and always exposed side torsos), high target priority, and a best mech complex that leads to constant nerfs and no buffs. If that change I mentioned is added it will lose much of its torso twist speed unless quirked up to increase it, which is unlikely due to the best mech complex.

I don't really see it as too forgiving, just average levels of forgiveness with low levels of rewarding more advanced tactics. You won't learn much of shielding in a Timber Wolf due to its low ability to do so, you won't learn much of positioning due to its average speed being fast enough to make thinking ahead not too important but slow enough that it can't focus on using multiple positions as well, it has high mounts on one of the pods, but they are so far above the cockpit that you're exposed before you see the enemy, so you don't get as much benefit from that.

Its really just incredibly basic and general purpose in that it does *everything* decently but is the best at absolutely nothing. It might be a good starter mech for people who haven't decided what it is they want to do. If they end up liking LRMs they can go for a Mad Dog, if they like brawling then go for an Orion IIC, if they like stealth then go for Hellbringer, if they like high mounts then go for Ebon Jaguar, if they like moving fast and positioning then go for Linebacker, if they like jump jet sniping with high alphas for for Night Gyr, if they like jump jet sniping with high speed in a heavy go for Summoner.

All the other clan heavies specialize in their areas much more than the Timber Wolf can. Just my take on it.

[Ukabix]

My advice as a TBR fanboy playing TBRs 30-40% of game time:

- Get jumpjets and learn to use them to your advantage ASAP. TBR-S side torso is on all of my TBRs since it helps A LOT with manouvering and defending against/chasing lights.
- Mastering TBR is a big drain on CBills, but well worth the time to mitigate quirks from TBR-S torso.
- Due to it's speed and high enemy priority I would call TBR more of a heavy cavalry mech than a straight heavy frontline mech. I have a lot more success playing like that - staying at the rim of the spearhead or helping light/medium flankers is where it shines the most imo.
- LRM evasion skills (JJ help) are crucial to your survival on open maps.
- I noticed that TBR can have some serious fear factor. If you play your cards wise you can wreak some serious havoc into enemy formation with a few hit-and-run attacks even without support. This is not viable in every situation and quite difficult since it requires good situational awarness in order not to overextend youself and not to get cut from your teammates. But pulling this off are probably the most satisfying of my TBR experience.
- LRM TBR is a dead TBR above T4.
- My fav builds are: 2x erppc (torso mounted!) + 2x cstreak 6 > 2x cLPL + 5x cERML > 4x cSRM 6 + 5x cSPL, maybe check them out if you find them effective.

To sum up - TBR is like a nasty sport car or a serious bike, it provokes you to be aggressive and keeps testing your character and reasoning skills under pressure. And I really like that.

Edited by Ukabix, 22 March 2017 - 11:57 AM.

[Faellun Freeman]

Metus regem, on 21 March 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

The Timby is actually a solid mech, but she is not with out issues....



As you can see the Hit boxes are okay at best with out the missile launchers, but doe the twist speed, twist range and the fact that engine size is directly linked to agility takes these average hit boxes and turns them into solid hit boxes.

Now all that being said, the TImber Wolf is probably the last mech I would recommend learning with, as it doesn't punish you for making mistakes... it's too forgiving. Because it is too forgiving it will not force you to learn good piloting and gunnery skills... this means when you go to other mechs you will likely find your performance taking a hit, as you got used to a mech that didn't force you to grow as a pilot.


Now on to your specific issues, it may feel more squishy as the Timber Wolf tends to draw a lot of fire, and with a CT you can hit from any angel it's not that hard to take it out either. The other problem you may be running into is the lower arms on the Timber Wolf may be putting shots into the poor terrain hit boxes on a lot of maps.


All that being said, perhaps you are just not compatible with the Timber Wolf, I myself am not compatible with the Storm Crow...

My first mech is the TBR-S. After reading some of these comments im wondering if I just somehow made a mistake buying it for a first mech because it might make me a bad pilot in anything else. I noticed before I bought it that it has negative quirks where others have mostly positive. I thought that would make it a challenge and not be considered a cheap "pay to win/kill" mech. My personal performance has gone up a little = still tier 5 = since getting it but now I feel kinda dirty.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Faellun Freeman, on 22 March 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

My first mech is the TBR-S. After reading some of these comments im wondering if I just somehow made a mistake buying it for a first mech because it might make me a bad pilot in anything else. I noticed before I bought it that it has negative quirks where others have mostly positive. I thought that would make it a challenge and not be considered a cheap "pay to win/kill" mech. My personal performance has gone up a little = still tier 5 = since getting it but now I feel kinda dirty.

Its a general purpose mech, good for starters to use to learn what type of builds they like. Once you find builds you like you can move on to other mechs to better learn the skills required to specialize in whatever you picked. Its not at the level of the real top tier big performers, but its under them in the good mech zone.

There's other mechs that will definitely be more challenging. Mediums can be particularly difficult with their low armor values. Shadow Cat is a good mech for learning about positioning and using MASC and jump jets to get into places to use its firepower without getting blasted. Centurions are nice mechs for learning about deadsiding damage with disposable empty sections of a mech, Crab is good for learning about blimp nose spreading in which you try to equally distribute damage across the sections, Hunchback IIC is good for learning about using high mounted poptarting builds.

There's also heavy and assault mechs that do similar things do those medium mechs that I mentioned, but they're less challenging to play due to the higher armor and firepower.

[Hunter Tseng]

The Timber Wolf is my favourite mech
And sadly even in the current power creep meta nowadays, it still carry the stigma of "best heavy mech in the game" with it
I wasn't around when it and the clan tech was overwhelmingly OP, so I have no idea how it carries that stigma together with the StormCrow.
Performance wise I do feel the Night Gyr is more powerful than the Timby, the Ebon Jag is more easier to use than the Timby, and the Hell Bringer can farm better than the Timby... but that doesn't stop me from playing my favourite mech in the game XD
The Timberwolf has an oversized engine for its weight, so you have to take advantage of its mobility. Unless you are carrying the meta gauss-peeps load out, it is not a mech-of-the-line to trade and form a firing line due to its majority low mounts, it is best to be used as a heavy puncher at the enemy flanks.
Don't stray too far from the main firing line, but always try to find a new angle on the enemy positions and if you do end up trading always know when you are winning the trades or when you need to back off.
Positioning and abusing the large engine is key to enjoying the Timber Wolf

[Whiskey Peddler]

Ukabix, on 22 March 2017 - 11:54 AM, said:

My advice as a TBR fanboy playing TBRs 30-40% of game time:

- Get jumpjets and learn to use them to your advantage ASAP. TBR-S side torso is on all of my TBRs since it helps A LOT with manouvering and defending against/chasing lights.
- Mastering TBR is a big drain on CBills, but well worth the time to mitigate quirks from TBR-S torso.
- Due to it's speed and high enemy priority I would call TBR more of a heavy cavalry mech than a straight heavy frontline mech. I have a lot more success playing like that - staying at the rim of the spearhead or helping light/medium flankers is where it shines the most imo.
- LRM evasion skills (JJ help) are crucial to your survival on open maps.
- I noticed that TBR can have some serious fear factor. If you play your cards wise you can wreak some serious havoc into enemy formation with a few hit-and-run attacks even without support. This is not viable in every situation and quite difficult since it requires good situational awarness in order not to overextend youself and not to get cut from your teammates. But pulling this off are probably the most satisfying of my TBR experience.
- LRM TBR is a dead TBR above T4.
- My fav builds are: 2x erppc (torso mounted!) + 2x cstreak 6 > 2x cLPL + 5x cERML > 4x cSRM 6 + 5x cSPL, maybe check them out if you find them effective.

To sum up - TBR is like a nasty sport car or a serious bike, it provokes you to be aggressive and keeps testing your character and reasoning skills under pressure. And I really like that.

I had used two of your recommended builds prior to this post. My avg damage when running the TBR was around 280.

However...much to my surprise I used this build: 2 CERLL and 4 ERML. I ended up with 1,163 damage, 880 damage, and 497 damage in three consecutive matches.

I was able to do this by flanking and not going "too" far out on said flank. Just as some readers mentioned...this IS NOT a frontline mech (at least when I pilot it). I went in to the final minutes of all three matches with around 60%-70% mech health, and wrecked the opposition. I just poked the entire match with the ERLLs and when it was usually 5v5 or 4v4 I pushed in and alpha'd the enemy constantly and riped components and rolled.

I have since come back down to earth by being "too cocky" and will now have to "pull the reins in" a bit.

It does feel good to poke and poke and poke, roll in and alpha 4-5 times and clean up 2 or 3 mechs in the final minutes though...no gonna lie.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Whiskey Peddler, on 23 March 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

I had used two of your recommended builds prior to this post. My avg damage when running the TBR was around 280.

However...much to my surprise I used this build: 2 CERLL and 4 ERML. I ended up with 1,163 damage, 880 damage, and 497 damage in three consecutive matches.

I was able to do this by flanking and not going "too" far out on said flank. Just as some readers mentioned...this IS NOT a frontline mech (at least when I pilot it). I went in to the final minutes of all three matches with around 60%-70% mech health, and wrecked the opposition. I just poked the entire match with the ERLLs and when it was usually 5v5 or 4v4 I pushed in and alpha'd the enemy constantly and riped components and rolled.

I have since come back down to earth by being "too cocky" and will now have to "pull the reins in" a bit.

It does feel good to poke and poke and poke, roll in and alpha 4-5 times and clean up 2 or 3 mechs in the final minutes though...no gonna lie.

Poking with laser alphas and having some long range direct fire ability is pretty great.

[Ukabix]

Whiskey Peddler, on 23 March 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

I had used two of your recommended builds prior to this post. My avg damage when running the TBR was around 280.

However...much to my surprise I used this build: 2 CERLL and 4 ERML. I ended up with 1,163 damage, 880 damage, and 497 damage in three consecutive matches.

I was able to do this by flanking and not going "too" far out on said flank. Just as some readers mentioned...this IS NOT a frontline mech (at least when I pilot it). I went in to the final minutes of all three matches with around 60%-70% mech health, and wrecked the opposition. I just poked the entire match with the ERLLs and when it was usually 5v5 or 4v4 I pushed in and alpha'd the enemy constantly and riped components and rolled.

I have since come back down to earth by being "too cocky" and will now have to "pull the reins in" a bit.

It does feel good to poke and poke and poke, roll in and alpha 4-5 times and clean up 2 or 3 mechs in the final minutes though...no gonna lie.

I am glad to see that you enjoy the ride! Hope to see you on the battlefield