What Is The Best Starter Mech For New Players?
#41
Posted 22 March 2017 - 06:35 AM
#42
Posted 22 March 2017 - 08:49 AM
Once they get good enough to kill a thing or two in that before they die, they shoudl have no problems trying out for 228 or EMP in just about anything else, in comparison.
Sink or swim, suckers!
(but for a mildly less Darwinian selection, I still find the Centurion a good all around trainer. Tough, versatile, lots of different ways one can focus builds to determine preferred playstyle, and inexpensive to boot. Probably the D or AL as a primary.)
#43
Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:26 AM
They brawl , they snipe , they skirmish , they can LRM boat , whatever you want really.
Easy to drive , high hard points , decent on the wallet.
#44
Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:32 AM
Would never recommend people start in a light though, a solid medium or heavy would be good, probably not a great choice for them to go assault either.
When I started the second time I bought a mech pack, warhammers ftw! plus they had the 1/2 off sale and I picked up a sparky and black widow from MC I had purchased the first time, originally bought that MC so I could get mech bays, but I knew I needed more mechs if I was going to really enjoy the game on my second go around. Been very happy with all of those purchases as my second go round starter mechs. Warhammers are pretty versatile and are what introduced me to ballistics, which sent me on my way to a nice Kodiak stable. K-3 and Spirit Bear are now two of my favorites.
I did get a timby at some point and didn't like it, too limited by all the stuff that is locked in (only play the warrant now cuz it can dakka), preferred the Ebon Jag over the timby. Jag has tons of build diverse options and can hold lots of fun weapons.
So warhammer and griffin could be solid choices in addition to the Hunchback, for clan heavies i recommend the Ebon Jag over the Timby.
#45
Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:40 AM
The Lighthouse, on 22 March 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:
If IS mech is really preferred, then I suggest Griffin and Shadow Hawk. Quite a lot of builds do not need XL to be effective so the overall cost may be cheaper (but still need to buy double heatsink and Endo... so pretty much 2,500,000+ CB on whatever the price of the mech is.
I'd agree on the Shadowhawk, particularly because it can do all three major weapons types.
meteorol, on 22 March 2017 - 03:40 AM, said:
I ment the IS HBK specifically, that's why i didn't write HBK IIC.
This forum has a long and dark history of recommending the IS HBK to new players, probably born out of some TT grognardism. I shudder when thinking about all the poor souls who came here for advice, and went home with a HBK when there were countless better mechs available. "It's a good mech to learn the game with"... yeah, sure.
Getting your face punched in with a subpar mech is surely a fun way to "learn the game".
If this is the case (I've never owned an IS HBK so I don't know), then you need to be more active in NPH, where about 75% of recommendations are to buy an IS Hunchie.
CDLord HHGD, on 22 March 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:
FTFY
sneeking, on 22 March 2017 - 04:18 AM, said:
sneeking, on 22 March 2017 - 04:05 AM, said:
sneeking, on 22 March 2017 - 04:25 AM, said:
sneeking, on 22 March 2017 - 04:38 AM, said:
Everyone should start out in a cent it should be a rule lol
sneeking, on 22 March 2017 - 04:40 AM, said:
sneeking, on 22 March 2017 - 04:46 AM, said:
But i can tell you this
One of the first things i will do is resurect a centurion....
sneeking, on 22 March 2017 - 04:56 AM, said:
I do not measure my success against my survival
Your account has been temporarily suspended due to over-activity; we suspect it has been compromised by a Centurion-class spambot.
(but on the topic of the CN9 - i think it's bad for noobs for particularly those reasons. It forces you to learn these things, yes, but it also isn't entirely intuitive to a brand new player. Much better to hop in an idiot-proof 'mech first. Gotta crawl before you can walk)
#46
Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:50 AM
Jables McBarty, on 22 March 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:
That's what the trial mechs are for....
#47
Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:51 AM
Jables McBarty, on 22 March 2017 - 09:40 AM, said:
I'd agree on the Shadowhawk, particularly because it can do all three major weapons types.
If this is the case (I've never owned an IS HBK so I don't know), then you need to be more active in NPH, where about 75% of recommendations are to buy an IS Hunchie.
FTFY
Your account has been temporarily suspended due to over-activity; we suspect it has been compromised by a Centurion-class spambot.
(but on the topic of the CN9 - i think it's bad for noobs for particularly those reasons. It forces you to learn these things, yes, but it also isn't entirely intuitive to a brand new player. Much better to hop in an idiot-proof 'mech first. Gotta crawl before you can walk)
And yet...it is very forgiving. And tough. Decent heat cap even stock, all things considered. I don't see what makes it any more difficult than a Shadowhawk, which you seem to favor... despite the shadow hawk adding jumping into the equation, which , tbh, is not the best thing for noobs to do, since they tend to overdo jumping and get rekt midair, a lot.
Even bone stock, I've taught several people on the CN9-D and they've generally done pretty well... especially since having those LRMs as a noob crutch keeps them from rushing in right away, a sure recipe for getting wiped.
Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 March 2017 - 09:52 AM.
#48
Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:54 AM
Matt2496, on 22 March 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:
Horrible choice. Its slow and runs hot, plus it doesnt have the range to compete with current mechs. Hunchies are hard mode.
#49
Posted 22 March 2017 - 09:58 AM
There is the initial higher cost, but I think a Stormcrow would be reasonable enough in price and be effective and pretty configurable for a first mech.
I think that would be a solid first mech.
#50
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:20 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2017 - 09:51 AM, said:
Weaponry:
CN9's weapons tend to be lower-mounted. BFG is in the arm, which messes with convergence and means you're more likely to hit dirt. Also it's more likely to get shorn.
SHD's weapons tend to be high-mounted--at least half are always at cockpit level. BFG is in the LT, with nearly 0% divergency from FOV. The LT is also more durable than the RA.
Jump Jets:
The SHD doesn't fly. Most variants max out at 3 or 4JJ, which just means you can get over that ledge or you aren't stuck in the Canyons ad infinitum. For those who lack intimate map knowledge, that extra boost can save a lot of time and poor positioning.
Clownwarlord, on 22 March 2017 - 01:27 AM, said:
I just really really struggled on the CN9 when I was a noob. I it took me forever to figure the damn thing out--I sold the first free one I got and it wasn't until I got a second free one that I hunkered down and figured it out.
But then, I learned on the JR7-D and the HGN-IIC so maybe my experience doesn't reflect a "classic beginner experience."
#51
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:21 AM
The Lighthouse, on 22 March 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:
I looked at this once, after reading one too many of those "PGI hates clans"/"No PGI hates the IS" whine threads. I looked at a few mechs where you could make fairly similar builds and from the limited number I looked at it seemed to vary significantly. Some favoured the IS; some favoured the clans.
meteorol, on 22 March 2017 - 03:40 AM, said:
It was (I think) the first mech where you could use every weapon system, and most of the builds are STD engine so upgrading the engine doesn't cost the earth. And it's cheap. But with the exception of the 4SP, and perhaps lasery builds on the 4J, all of them have the "attack weak point for massive damage" problem that means whenever you encounter someone who can vaguely aim...
---
As far as the original question is concerned, I would probably say Hellbringer/Ebon Jag. I like the Ebon Jag better to pilot, and most builds that would fit in 65 tons are doable, but the Hellbringer's ECM will help shield from missiles until enough XP for radar derp can be accrued.
If that's too Cbilly, then the Stormcrow is very flexible and while probably not the best at anything anymore, still pretty good at most things.
#52
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:25 AM
#53
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:26 AM
mogs01gt, on 22 March 2017 - 09:54 AM, said:
You can put a bigger standard engine on all the hunchies you aren't limited to the stock one. Upgraded standard engine goes for 1.6ish million and allows it to travel at a very reasonable speed, and still fit weapons aplenty. Between a 220 and a 270 depending on load outs. Do not recommend XL you are supposed to use the tankyness of the chassis. Hunchies are hard to kill with standard engines which is why people use them as starter machines so they don't die so quickly.
4SP is the go to imo, has lots of laser options, and double missile choices as well. Gives people the option to LRM, SRM, and laser boat all in a single chassis. My un speed tweaked version travels 87 kph with a 270 in it. Even with a 220 you are un tweaked traveling at a respectable 71kph.
I like to boat 2 SRM+A 6's and 4 medium lasers. It is only unspeed tweaked because i don't own 3 different variants, but I have been thinking about getting two others as I have more than enough exp on the 4SP chassis to master it.
#54
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:28 AM
If it wasn't for the rule of 3, the KDK-3 would be the choice. It may cost a lot upfront, but it pays for itself in a hurry.
Easy choice is the Hellbringer. All around solid mech and you can't underestimate the value ECM in the current lurm meta.
No reason to choose an I.S. mech unless you really want to challenge yourself. Spend 3 months learning to play in I.S. mechs and buy your first clan mech, you'll wonder why you didn't choose clan first.
#55
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:32 AM
Edited by dario03, 22 March 2017 - 10:36 AM.
#56
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:45 AM
dario03, on 22 March 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:
also expensive as heck for a new player
MeiSooHaityu, on 22 March 2017 - 09:58 AM, said:
There is the initial higher cost, but I think a Stormcrow would be reasonable enough in price and be effective and pretty configurable for a first mech.
I think that would be a solid first mech.
I think pod swapping is one more thing (aside from the cost) to keep Omnis as second or later mechs, as it's just one more layer of things to complicate.
Jables McBarty, on 22 March 2017 - 10:20 AM, said:
Weaponry:
CN9's weapons tend to be lower-mounted. BFG is in the arm, which messes with convergence and means you're more likely to hit dirt. Also it's more likely to get shorn.
SHD's weapons tend to be high-mounted--at least half are always at cockpit level. BFG is in the LT, with nearly 0% divergency from FOV. The LT is also more durable than the RA.
Jump Jets:
The SHD doesn't fly. Most variants max out at 3 or 4JJ, which just means you can get over that ledge or you aren't stuck in the Canyons ad infinitum. For those who lack intimate map knowledge, that extra boost can save a lot of time and poor positioning.
I just really really struggled on the CN9 when I was a noob. I it took me forever to figure the damn thing out--I sold the first free one I got and it wasn't until I got a second free one that I hunkered down and figured it out.
But then, I learned on the JR7-D and the HGN-IIC so maybe my experience doesn't reflect a "classic beginner experience."
and SHDs on average aren't as tough, and have horribly limited FoV, not things to recommend to beginners. High weapon mount is nice, but using them well, tbh? Not a beginner skill. Most will be exposing most of their mech anyhow.
I don't consider the SHD a bad choice, it's the best of the 55 tonners to learn on. I just vastly disagree that it's a markedly superior choice to other options.
#57
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:55 AM
So that leaves only IS mechs.
Any Centurion mech with energy hardpoints in it's CT.
Any Hunchback mech as I feel it trains new players to torso twist to protect it's large RT.
(HBK was my first mech)
Any Griffin mech as it's a good allrounder.
Any Shadow Hawk mech as it's a nice tanky medium.
Catapult-K2 is nice.
Warhammers and Marauders are good and tanky.
Anything past those last 2 may cost too much for new players that is looking to upgrade their mech's gear while buying mods.
#58
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:55 AM
Bishop Steiner, on 22 March 2017 - 10:45 AM, said:
I think pod swapping is one more thing (aside from the cost) to keep Omnis as second or later mechs, as it's just one more layer of things to complicate.
and SHDs on average aren't as tough, and have horribly limited FoV, not things to recommend to beginners. High weapon mount is nice, but using them well, tbh? Not a beginner skill. Most will be exposing most of their mech anyhow.
I don't consider the SHD a bad choice, it's the best of the 55 tonners to learn on. I just vastly disagree that it's a markedly superior choice to other options.
Well yeah, I said cost was the only downside. But you can't have it all. But the Timber meets all the other criteria including the being able to run lots of build types. So while it will cost a lot, it can fill the role of a lot of mechs. Compared to some other mechs that might only specialize in certain builds and thus require you to buy more mechs to try those play styles.
#59
Posted 22 March 2017 - 10:56 AM
3.6 mil to buy 1.6 for new std engine, 1.5 for DHS, 250,000 for Endo, and 250,000 for artemis. This includes 270 std engine 2 artemis srm6 launchers and 4 medium lasers.
From there you have options for changing load out to suit your playstyle, try LRM's, or Laser boating, with just the cost of the new weapons being the difference.
The only thing it can't do is let you try ballistics.
Edited by Malrock, 22 March 2017 - 11:00 AM.
#60
Posted 22 March 2017 - 11:14 AM
Clan or IS... Clan is higher up front cost, but less in the lab to make it "right" for you.
Weapon choices... get one with enough hardpoints to allow you some degree of experimentation, location and type.
Now... specifically for the new player...
Think about movement...
Big and armored usually makes for a big target. Small and fast can be harder to hit and able to relocate you more quickly when you realize you have lost a favorable position, but at the cost of less armor and weapons... choose wisely in this category.
And really think about a mech that has an ECM capable chassis, then you have the option.
Considered layered ranges and different types of weapons... try to not overload or "boat" any one system until you get good with it. By doing this you may be effective at different ranges instead of just one range bracket being "good" and outside that lose effectiveness.
I highly suggest a clan mech like a Shadowcat or Hellbringer, model choice based on your preferred weapons and ranges.
I started with the Shadowcat based on positive experiences in other mechwarrior games with it... still one of my favorites, and very versatile and worth what I spent.
Take a few "trial mechs" for a drive in the TESTING GROUNDS to get a feel for how they move and dissipate heat... these traits are best discovered for free this way... and let that help you actually "feel" how they drive... and believe it, they all have at least a slightly different feeling (again... gotta love the Shadowcat).
Good luck
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