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Inner Sphere Xl


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#1 HiAndromon

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 01:50 PM

I have a Black Knight that peforms, well... but most of the time my ct goes blowed off, due to the fact that i'm a little slow and i have to expose a lot of my mech to put out some trades, what doesnt end well and take my black knight to the only spot he is not energy efficient, brawler. I already noticed how better my griffin become with an XL, and i see that even with less survivability a rifleman, a warhammer, and other chassis can have such firepower and speed that extending your own CT is not as big as a problem as i would've think before, and risking yourself at it it's a good trade. With the clan XL nerfs, it criples you so much that you become a burden to your team most of the times, of course is better than not dying, but still, pretty close.

So my question is, when does objectively a XL becomes bad against a STD for the choice of a mech, i know the assaults aren't good with them, but a heavy mech with a big ST like the marauder would it be bad with a XL?

#2 Metus regem

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:05 PM

It's more of a case of bad geometry hurts an isXL more than anything else, when I say bad, I mean like Awesome bad...

Generally speaking if you are going to take an isXL, go big (biggest you can get) or go home... That being said, a Maraduer even with an isXL from the front isn't a bad thing, it can fit a ton of fire power on there, where it's not so strong is on the flank when the ST is long... The thing is, you are really trading defensive longevity for fire power and cooling, the isXL lets you pack more fire power and cooling (larger engine sizes, every 25 allow for an extra heat sink slot inside of the engine). Even mechs like the Black Knight can be decent with an isXL.

#3 Roughneck45

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 02:29 PM

View PostHiAndromon, on 23 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

but a heavy mech with a big ST like the marauder would it be bad with a XL?

You've got the right idea. Its all about geometry and how well you can protect an open side torso.

Back when there were only IS mechs STD engines were nearly always better for the durability, but after they added clans the increased firepower on the field made STD durability less desirable compared to the increased firepower and maneuverability gained from XL's.

These days the only thing to absolutely never XL is an Atlas.

Edited by Roughneck45, 23 March 2017 - 02:38 PM.


#4 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 23 March 2017 - 03:43 PM

I have sucessfully played XL engines in a Black Knight, that and the Warhammer are Mechs I initialy put on a reasionable loadout with a standard engine, then after about 15 games realised I had yet to loose a side torso, so I put in XL engines and still rarely loose a side torso, I concider the Black Knight to be pretty XL safe.


View PostRoughneck45, on 23 March 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

These days the only thing to absolutely never XL is an Atlas.

or a Stalker, an XL is even worse in a Stalker than in an Atlas.
But even with those 2 some people can make an XL work well.


in June the Civil War update will include the Light Fusion engine for Inner Sphere which will make the standard engine pretty much obsolite, weighing more than an XL but about 25% less than the standard, and being able to survive a side torso loss.

#5 Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 01:32 AM

View PostHiAndromon, on 23 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

I have a Black Knight that peforms, well... but most of the time my ct goes blowed off, due to the fact that i'm a little slow and i have to expose a lot of my mech to put out some trades, what doesnt end well and take my black knight to the only spot he is not energy efficient, brawler. I already noticed how better my griffin become with an XL, and i see that even with less survivability a rifleman, a warhammer, and other chassis can have such firepower and speed that extending your own CT is not as big as a problem as i would've think before, and risking yourself at it it's a good trade. With the clan XL nerfs, it criples you so much that you become a burden to your team most of the times, of course is better than not dying, but still, pretty close.

So my question is, when does objectively a XL becomes bad against a STD for the choice of a mech, i know the assaults aren't good with them, but a heavy mech with a big ST like the marauder would it be bad with a XL?


In your opening sentence, you stated you normally loose your CT due to being slow.
The BLK isn't exactly a slow mech... And since your. It getting side torso'd...

The answer might be to:
Increase your engine size to accommodate higher speeds...
And use an XL since your getting CT'd anyway.

There are very few IS mechs that I "personally" would not XL... (an Atlas, a marauder, and possibly the stalker and a King Crab) everything else gets a mandatory XL in my book.

#6 justcallme A S H

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 01:49 AM

From the original post - it is quite clear the issue - face-tanking/sarting at a target/standing still.

This is the main issue here as to dying to IS XL / Torso or even a CT kill. Learn to twist/spread damage etc. You will last longer, do more damage etc.

You need to use the arms as shields, so, turn at a target till it shoots you and then turn back and shoot it.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 March 2017 - 02:47 AM.


#7 Alexandra Hekmatyar

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:05 AM

I find the maneuverability and extra firepower way to important, so I always roll with an XL.
In my experience very few people aim specifically for the side torso, in most cases it's death by center torso being blown off.
I do have exemptions for 3 mechs because either I need the slots or the build I use could fit the engine with the speed I desire to have.

#8 The Basilisk

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 02:26 AM

To elaborate on what ASH said:

I saw you in battle yesterday Andromon. One of those matches where you get as many newbys in your team as known Leaderboard top 500.

You aren't moving enough.
Means you are literaly standing rock still for seconds while aiming and shooting....then looking at the enemy while your weapons cycle.
Good heavens I was in a dual Gauss dual ERPPC MAD IIC....on your team...sadly.

Don't you dare standing still when I'm on the other side Posted Image

If you are at ranges over >450-500m with your Mech the sequence is fire twist and fade....except a push has been called and all your team is moving in big clump.
If you are against an enemy at closer ranges keep moving, stay with the flock try to fade in and out together with your team mates so the enemy always got multiple targets.
Even when your team does not move much never fire more that two salvos from the same position. Run up and down your team line while using terrain.

#9 Koniving

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 06:30 AM

View PostHiAndromon, on 23 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

So my question is, when does objectively a XL becomes bad against a STD for the choice of a mech, i know the assaults aren't good with them, but a heavy mech with a big ST like the marauder would it be bad with a XL?

Mechs with large side torsos.

Some examples: Note these aren't saying it is always bad to have an XL. These are saying you'd live a hell of a lot longer if you went std.

Thunderbolt. (Really big STs)
Centurion (prior to 2015's hitbox changes; skrawny CT and HUUUUGE STs; now they're more evenly sized).
Stalker (Gigantic front side torsos, skinny narrow CT. Narrow rear STs, Gaping wide rear CT.)
Awesome (Big STs... still kinda big CT...)
Victor (Big STs.)
Atlas (Big STs).

Mechs with big STs tend to lose their XL lives much quicker since it is easier to hit those STs.
The advantage of big STs is when it is destroyed...
A destroyed limb, whether arm or torso or leg, reduces all incoming damage by 60% (so only 40% transfers inward to the next body part). So a Thunderbolt after losing the ST will be able to use that destroyed side torso to reduce damage by 60%. AC/20? Welp it's only doing 8 damage to your CT after it hits that destroyed ST. And if the enemy attack hits the remnants of the arm hitbox first, that's 60% reduction followed by a 60% reduction of that! 20 damage AC/20 only does 3.2 damage.

Now a Stalker, due to missile doors (and only in the case of arms with missile doors that have missile launchers installed), there's an additional 10% damage reduction (even when the arms are alive, so long as the doors are closed).

So... yeah. Tank away.

#10 JC Daxion

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Posted 24 March 2017 - 11:44 AM

well, first, clan XL's and their nerf, it really depends on the builds. If you are packing all weapons on one side and you just lost all your heat sinks, and the engine nerf/change, of course your mech should be running way hot now.

But if you had a much more balanced/heat friendly build, say for example you packed a UAC10 and a pair of ML's in your right side, but lost your left, which was 2 ML's_UAC-10 you are still going to pack a darn good punch. So I'm not really sure i see the issue here, clans still live and you can still have lots of firepower, if you build your mech right. That is not to say that an ALPHA poker will just run incredibly hot and a good flank/brawl push he is as good as dead after 2 shots as the mech is close to over heating and done.


But on to your IS Q. the others have said a bunch, but i will just add, try running your black Knight as an energy brawler. All mine use STD engines. I have no issues with keeping them running cool, and packing damage. Same with Energy Crabs, an other mech that people think they need to XL. with an STD a crab can still run over 100 and pack a nice punch. getting 500+ in either mech is a normal thing, with good games hitting the 700-900 range.

the issue with this game is people get obsessed with the damage trade thing and then cover, but the other part of the game is attrition. By that i mean, armor/structure and heat.. which is what a brawler is about. Typically high alpha builds run fairly hot, so if you can get into them and absorb some hits, by that point you now have the upper hand.


My point is, the XL and STD builds really play different. Often they are a just go, point of no return and hope for the best. But when to go aggressive is the big question that situation dictates.

I'll just add one last thing and that is, you can almost always tell when the person is desperately trying to take out your XL(ST) to get you before you get them.. But when that pops and you don't die,.. you can almost hear them say ohh crap.. It's good fun :)

BTW, try a ML+ ERPPC, or a few LPL's +ML's in the BK's with an std, they work quite well. I really enjoy the mech, despite it not being seen to often, they really do work well. The thing is can you get into brawl range with a buddy or two and get out of peak and poke.





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