23 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

So pissed right not about paul's answers on the round table dealing with the 12 man limit.

"we dont want the best 8 of 16 we want the best 8 players"

I think the need to go back and read why groups dropped out in their last tournament

https://mwomercs.com...the-tournament/

Quote

Sadly we won't be able to field 8 players reagulary, as some people who where interested in the tournament have no longer enough time to spend it on these matches or have lost their interest.

Quote

CWDG is unable to field 8 players due to real world issues. We have withdrawn, as per the reddit post last week.

Quote

228 IBR Swamp Foxes is withdrawing from the tournament. The summer season combined with the tournament schedule and restriction of a 12 person roster has limited our ability to regularly field 8 persons on scheduled and off-scheduled times, and it's not fair to make other teams wait around.

Just to quote a few.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 31 March 2017 - 09:32 PM.

[Tarogato]

I concur. 12 players is too few for MWO. The other games Russ/Paul alluded to that have even stricter roster rules also have smaller teams (5 players, not 8) and generally played by a younger crowd, and more often go to officially sanctioned events. In some games, there are even "professional gamers".

MWO is not like those games. 12 people isn't enough to field 8 on a schedule or with regularity with the type of people that play this game. We really do need more. I'd press for 16.

Edited by Tarogato, 31 March 2017 - 08:57 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Tarogato, on 31 March 2017 - 08:49 PM, said:

I concur. 12 players is too few for MWO. The other games Russ/Paul alluded to that have even stricter roster rules also have smaller teams (5 players, not 8) and generally played by a younger crowd, and more often go to officially sanctioned events. In some games, there are even "professional gamers".

MWO is not like those games. 12 people isn't enough to field 8 on a schedule or with regularity with the type of people that play this game. We really do need more. I'd press for 16.

I'd have to agree. A Roster of 16 people for a team allows for more flexibility between all those people.

Not everyone is available or is retired or even play the game for a living. Some of us actually have lives or issues that happen, and thus some of us can't make it to tourney times and such. The bigger the roster, the more flexibility one team has as everyone has the chance to reschedule their lives appropriately for one another and themselves.

[Dodger79]

In the soccer world championships the best teams of the world need to bring 11 players to the field, but the team consists of 23 (heck, 3 of them are goalkeepers who are nearly never changed during a tournament, so only of these 3 guys plays, but there is still the risk of injury so bring 3!).

In American Football there are not soooo many players on the field but man, look ath the rosters! In this sport the teams are even fielding different players for different scenarios, depending on offense, defense, special teams etc. For each role they have "the dedicated guy".

In the NBA it's the same: only 5 guys on the field but 10 more guys on the bench.

What does this mean? Either it means that bringing your best shot and trying to be the best team needs some reserves in order to be able to plan for and actually achieve this goal. Or it means that PGI definetly has to talk to FIFA, NFL, NBA and all the other organisations and tell them that they are doing it wrong, because the people don't want to see great teams doing good sports but only the best players in the world even if they have to quit because they are exhausted..

[MW Waldorf Statler]

This Game has serverbased Calculations(better against Cheats) ...not Clientbased like other games ...thats limited massive the Playercount ...morePlayer=More Hits/Animations of mechparts/=More calculations=Slideshow lags and terrible Hitreg

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 31 March 2017 - 10:52 PM.

[Revis Volek]

i dont see why its unreasonable to think that half your guys (or gals) are busy at any given time. So if you need 8 better have 16 or 17.

Edited by Revis Volek, 31 March 2017 - 10:03 PM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 31 March 2017 - 09:30 PM, said:

This Game has serverbased Calculations(better against Cheats) ...not Clientbased like other games ...thats limited massive the Playercount ...morePlayer=More Hits/Animations/=More calculations=Slideshow lags and terribel Hitreg

What the heck are you trying to say?

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Lukoi Banacek, on 31 March 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

What the heck are you trying to say?

more as 12 Players not with this serverbased Gamesystem

Edit:my misunderstand ...my fault to understand the question

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 01 April 2017 - 12:08 AM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Old MW4 Ranger, on 31 March 2017 - 10:51 PM, said:

more as 12 Players not with this serverbased Gamesystem

They're not talking about the number of players in an actually match on each team. They're talking about the size of the pool of potential players to be put into the match.

Apparently PGI states they do not want large rosters for the teams entering into the tournaments and would rather have a team size equal to the amount of people who are going to actually be playing.


From one standpoint it makes sense in that PGI is trying to legitimize itself and mimic the big name esport titles but they're shooting themselves in the foot because their comp following isn't big enough for such a thing yet. The comp players barely get any recognition compared to those in games such as CSGO and as such cannot make a living off of professionally playing MWO. On top of that MWO's player population has a lot of middle aged people with jobs and families and stuff that makes it pretty much impossible for them to reliably be in a tournament because their priorities are on their families rather than on the goal at hand as with a single person who doesn't need to work that day.

I'd love to see PGI get a big comp following like in other games and have millions of daily viewers of just video content produced from MWO and maybe even have comp be a big thing like it is in CSGO and some MOBAs where people do actually look to follow it somewhat unless they are outright trolling or playing challenge mode for themselves. It'd lead to much less potato play if people actually saw how comp matches worked and maybe T1 could be the glorious top of mount tryhard it was supposed to be.

...but its not big right now at all, its very tiny and PGI needs to understand this and look to being accommodating at first and building a large following with advertisements, inclusiveness, ease of entry, and better display of the tournaments.

[HGAK47]

I am just an observer, an outsider if you will but why on earth would it make any difference to PGI how big the team roster is? Would it not make perfect sense to have a larger team roster? This way you have redudancy for drop outs or particular team play styles?

This seems only prudent to me. What happens if you have 2 teams but one or more players cannot make it? Where will the players come from to fill it the gaps?

[Marius Evander]

<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------








Competitive play forum is that way.

[Monkey Lover]

HGAK47, on 31 March 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

I am just an observer, an outsider if you will but why on earth would it make any difference to PGI how big the team roster is? Would it not make perfect sense to have a larger team roster? This way you have redudancy for drop outs or particular team play styles?

This seems only prudent to me. What happens if you have 2 teams but one or more players cannot make it? Where will the players come from to fill it the gaps?

I have no idea Mrbc is allowing us to have as many players on the list as we want. This allowed us to have basically our whole unit.

Even with 20+ players getting 8 people on at one time isn't that easy. I took off days of work to make the last tourment. I can't do that again this year.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 01 April 2017 - 06:54 AM.

[Suspect]

HGAK47, on 31 March 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

I am just an observer, an outsider if you will but why on earth would it make any difference to PGI how big the team roster is? Would it not make perfect sense to have a larger team roster? This way you have redudancy for drop outs or particular team play styles?

This seems only prudent to me. What happens if you have 2 teams but one or more players cannot make it? Where will the players come from to fill it the gaps?

.

The only positive thing that comes to mind is distributing the top talent. We'll see new teams consisting of high skill players that should produce some exciting matches.... Not saying I like the idea....

[Monkey Lover]

Suspect, on 01 April 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

.

The only positive thing that comes to mind is distributing the top talent. We'll see new teams consisting of high skill players that should produce some exciting matches.... Not saying I like the idea....

At first they're going to allow them to jump around. Top people are basically going to be ringers for the first few months.

After this I dont this thing k top 50 players would be OK with playing on the side lines.

[TLBFestus]

I guess you just can't teach an old Russ new tricks.

One of the biggest glaring faults of that assinine tournament was the sheer numbers of teams forced to drop out or be DQ'ed because of the length of the tournament and the limited number of players allowed.

Just one more example of truly how little PGI "gets it".

Edited by TLBFestus, 02 April 2017 - 06:21 PM.

[Chuck Jager]

If folks are being allowed to jump around until a certain point in time, should the whole team be made of accounts with names just for the event? I thought the rules were very specific about main accounts.

Part of the reason our unit took a big dip was our ability to Q for the event, fortunately we found out that we were not the only ones.

Maybe they should have a pre-season with very flexible rules and game times with varied ways to earn points. This would then allow for the "sweet 16" style playoffs (not necessarily a mirror of the brackets). This could help build a way for teams to develop and possibly help the game catch a second breath.

[razenWing]

They can keep 12 men limit.  But they need to cut down the schedule and allow 1 roster change per "phase."  (and cannot be someone that signed up already)

For example, regional (single elimination 16 teams) -> 1 roster change
then national (single elimination 16 teams) -> 1 roster change

Server Final Spots (4 teams rotation) -> 1 final roster change in case anyone can't go to Vancouver.

That way, there is no overburden of schedule, you can accommodate a crap load of players, and solves the problems of scheduling conflicts due to real life events.

Edited by razenWing, 01 April 2017 - 09:58 AM.

[SpiralFace]

razenWing, on 01 April 2017 - 09:57 AM, said:

They can keep 12 men limit. But they need to cut down the schedule and allow 1 roster change per "phase." (and cannot be someone that signed up already)

It sounds like that is what they are doing.

They explicitly said that you can have a 12 man roster, but during the "open" season, you are free to swap out those that are on the team at will. Which they said that the "open" season is what they will use to replace the round robin from last time leaving only the last stretch of the season and the "finals" as being the only time that that 12 man limit is ever "locked" down in any meaningful way.

I'm more concerned about the ability to free swap players. They mentioned that there is no real penalty for leaving one team and joining another at this point, which seems to have a high potential of high skilled players "boosting" other teams like you see in other games.

Given that the 12 man limit is entirely superfluous during the "open" part of the season, and we have no specifics on how long the "closed" or "locked" part of the season where you must maintain those 12 man rosters are, It seriously remains to be seen how much of an issue this even is.

Like you said, if the closed season is short enough, then the 12 man locked state might not even matter.

[Monkey Lover]

SpiralFace, on 01 April 2017 - 11:45 AM, said:

It sounds like that is what they are doing.

They explicitly said that you can have a 12 man roster, but during the &quot;open&quot; season, you are free to swap out those that are on the team at will. Which they said that the &quot;open&quot; season is what they will use to replace the round robin from last time leaving only the last stretch of the season and the &quot;finals&quot; as being the only time that that 12 man limit is ever &quot;locked&quot; down in any meaningful way.

I'm more concerned about the ability to free swap players. They mentioned that there is no real penalty for leaving one team and joining another at this point, which seems to have a high potential of high skilled players &quot;boosting&quot; other teams like you see in other games.

Given that the 12 man limit is entirely superfluous during the &quot;open&quot; part of the season, and we have no specifics on how long the &quot;closed&quot; or &quot;locked&quot; part of the season where you must maintain those 12 man rosters are, It seriously remains to be seen how much of an issue this even is.

Like you said, if the closed season is short enough, then the 12 man locked state might not even matter.

12 man limit during the off season is kind of stupid too. If you allow anyone to be added to the group at any time then all this does is force teams to remove someone that isn't here just to add another member who is. For what reason? Just to waste time?

Over all maybe the 12 man limit doesn't matter. If you're not in one of the largest units who setup 10 teams and switch comp players around you might as well not play.

They really need to talk to the mrbc people.

[SpiralFace]

More then likely because that would essentially be two different interfaces doubling the amount of UI work needed to implementing one system for the open season and a separate one for the closed season.

Looks like they are developing this with the finals in mind, but with a sort of "release" valve with the entire closed / open system to make sure they have a way of enforcing the locked rosters during the finals, but still allow for a much more open format in the open season.

Not ideal to be sure, but not the end of the world at face value. I would say that the main critiques of this format is going to come down to the smaller details and not the larger ones. Mainly, how long is closed season that forces the 12 man rosters? How does the interface work for units that could theoretically sponsor multiple comp teams across multiple regions (228th immediately comes to mind.) And with open format and no real limits on your ability to hop teams, what is going to stop elite players "boosting" other teams at will or last minute roster drafting right before the lock comes down?

Not enough info at this point to really judge what is there.