193 replies to this topic

[dario03]

DrxAbstract, on 04 April 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

The Ember was never a "top light". The JR7-F was the best all-round Light when Firestarters launched and I predicted Firestarters would rival or even surpass it, which is exactly what happened but only after Quirks first appeared and Pulses got buffed. Suddenly the FS9-A was the best brawler/hunter Light while the FS9-S with Mplas was the premiere harasser/striker. The Ember, however, had unquirked, pre-buff Mguns constituting half its hardpoints which forced you to rely on 1-ton Energy weapons if you wanted to fill the 4 Energy hardpoints--Mlas were garbage and you couldn't carry enough Splas to make up the gap between the A or S.

Ember... Hah. It's been a running gag nearly as long as the Jenner CT.

Negative. The Ember was about equal to the Jenner F back in the day. Machine guns have had multiple base stats and for a while worked very well on the Ember with 4ml. You are probably thinking of the time inbetween MG nerfs and quirks coming out. During those few months none of the Firestarters were very good, prior to that the Ember was good, and after that it was the spl and mpl Firestarters for IS lights.

[Kaeb Odellas]

DrxAbstract, on 04 April 2017 - 10:11 AM, said:

The Ember was never a "top light". The JR7-F was the best all-round Light when Firestarters launched and I predicted Firestarters would rival or even surpass it, which is exactly what happened but only after Quirks first appeared and Pulses got buffed. Suddenly the FS9-A was the best brawler/hunter Light while the FS9-S with Mplas was the premiere harasser/striker. The Ember, however, had unquirked, pre-buff Mguns constituting half its hardpoints which forced you to rely on 1-ton Energy weapons if you wanted to fill the 4 Energy hardpoints--Mlas were garbage and you couldn't carry enough Splas to make up the gap between the A or S.

Ember... Hah. It's been a running gag nearly as long as the Jenner CT.

I recall the Ember being an unrivaled Assault killer after the big MG buff. Components melted away after you got through the back armor. Each MG did something like 3 DPS to structure due to crits.

[Bud Crue]

I find this topic intriguing, particularly from an evolution of the game point of view; and also from a "WHY, PGI WHY?!" angle. So just been using the wayback machine and looking at Metamechs (yes there are other ranking sites but this one is handy) since it started in 2014, and boy it is shocking to see what has been considered good, bad and competitive over time.

Example: in April of 2015 the top ranked IS Assault was the Stalker 4N. Remember the 4N? The Grasshopper 5N was considered the best hopper...the 5N. The Kitfox was the top clan light.

I really ought to be working but once you fall down the rabbit hole...

[Mcgral18]

Kaeb Odellas, on 04 April 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

I recall the Ember being an unrivaled Assault killer after the big MG buff. Components melted away after you got through the back armor. Each MG did something like 3 DPS to structure due to crits.

We had good MGs for roughly two weeks

Then everything changed when the Clams attacked
Table by StJobe


They've been buffed to almost the same damage, but almost 1/3 the CoF as well

Edited by Mcgral18, 04 April 2017 - 01:22 PM.

[DrxAbstract]

dario03, on 04 April 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

Negative. The Ember was about equal to the Jenner F back in the day. Machine guns have had multiple base stats and for a while worked very well on the Ember with 4ml. You are probably thinking of the time inbetween MG nerfs and quirks coming out. During those few months none of the Firestarters were very good, prior to that the Ember was good, and after that it was the spl and mpl Firestarters for IS lights.

Kaeb Odellas, on 04 April 2017 - 10:38 AM, said:

I recall the Ember being an unrivaled Assault killer after the big MG buff. Components melted away after you got through the back armor. Each MG did something like 3 DPS to structure due to crits.

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. The reign of the JR7-D and JR7-F being collectively, and even separately, longer than that of the Firestarter thanks to the pitfall that is PGI's mishandling of quirks for Lights and the subsequent widespread never-to-return result is unfortunate. As McGral pointed out, the two week period of Mguns being ridiculously good doesn't outweigh the previous and following periods of underwhelming performance from them. It's not nearly enough to redeem the Ember's otherwise lackluster history in my eyes when you consider the detractors of Mguns combined with the Firestarter chassis itself... So I wholeheartedly disagree with the Ember legitimately being on par with the JR7-F at any point in its history.

[TercieI]

Jenner F is the most missed nerfed mech for me.

[MechWarrior5152251]

The UAC10 actually registers hits. I got sick of hitting someone point blank with mulitple UAC20 rounds and registering zero damage. I will never use that weapon again unless they fix it.

[dario03]

DrxAbstract, on 04 April 2017 - 11:57 AM, said:

I suppose it's a matter of perspective. The reign of the JR7-D and JR7-F being collectively, and even separately, longer than that of the Firestarter thanks to the pitfall that is PGI's mishandling of quirks for Lights and the subsequent widespread never-to-return result is unfortunate. As McGral pointed out, the two week period of Mguns being ridiculously good doesn't outweigh the previous and following periods of underwhelming performance from them. It's not nearly enough to redeem the Ember's otherwise lackluster history in my eyes when you consider the detractors of Mguns combined with the Firestarter chassis itself... So I wholeheartedly disagree with the Ember legitimately being on par with the JR7-F at any point in its history.

The MGs were at their best for 2 weeks but they were good after that for 301 days. That is the time period that I am talking about, especially since the Ember wasn't even out until over half way through that. So it wasn't 2 weeks, it was over 4 months of history.

Edited by dario03, 04 April 2017 - 12:59 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

The Timber Wolf may feel nerfed, until one realizes that listing lazily to the left is not a valid damage spreading maneuver against people that can actually aim.

[DrxAbstract]

dario03, on 04 April 2017 - 12:58 PM, said:

The MGs were at their best for 2 weeks but they were good after that for 301 days. That is the time period that I am talking about, especially since the Ember wasn't even out until over half way through that. So it wasn't 2 weeks, it was over 4 months of history.

Sorry, I had the wrong reference date for the Ember's release.

Anyway, define 'good'. We have comparable damage with less cone and... They're still garbage, IMO. Devoting half your payload to them on a section of the Mech that can't hit anything beyond the most gradual of terrain gradients with midriff-mounted weapons all-round that required extensive facetime (Mguns) and are inherently poor performers against 100+ KPH targets (Mguns and Mlas), the Ember was, and still is, nothing to write home about. So yes, depending on who you talk to, a 4 Month heyday... Maybe. If it wasn't for lopsided quirks and the Jenner's huge CT the entire Firstarter lineup likely never would have seen sparkle of the spotlight.

Though some of my best Light matches were in Firestarters, most were in my Jenners... But... 886 FS9 drops versus 3,433 in the JR7 (Excluding the handful of CB stat wipes), I suppose it's a bit disproportionate... Not that it matters, given PGI's demonstrably abhorrent abandonment of the Light class as a whole for the last 2 years (Some of them even longer). Can't really call the JR7-F my favorite nerfed Mech because its fall from grace was due to utter neglect throughout the evolution of MWO... Can a Mech qualify as 'nerfed' simply for being ignored by the devs?

[Davegt27]

My Ember has an AC2 lol

The OP violated one of the MWO commandments

Thou shall not defend the TW

I tried to say something back in 2014
I was still new to the game and all I new was it had been changed
Once I said something I was informed it was the best Mech in the game so stfu
I was thinking at the time how was I supposed to know that
Its not like there is a pop-up saying the TW is the best Mech in the game

I been on the forums almost every day and every person that has tried to defend
Or complain about TW nerfs has gotten shouted down

The TW-A even got a prerelease nerf (almost spent real money on that one)

Some of us spend all our time looking for that load out and or weapon that is not under
The nerf bat

[Quicksilver Aberration]

DrxAbstract, on 04 April 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Anyway, define 'good'. We have comparable damage with less cone and... They're still garbage, IMO.

The meta has significantly changed (and been power creeped), what's hard to understand about that?

[The Lighthouse]

Nerfs on Timberwolf is nothing when you see the status of light mechs in general. Just try play like Giantstarter or Mist Lynx then you have right to complain if you can play these mechs better than your current favorite one.

[Gas Guzzler]

DrxAbstract, on 04 April 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Sorry, I had the wrong reference date for the Ember's release.

Anyway, define 'good'. We have comparable damage with less cone and... They're still garbage, IMO. Devoting half your payload to them on a section of the Mech that can't hit anything beyond the most gradual of terrain gradients with midriff-mounted weapons all-round that required extensive facetime (Mguns) and are inherently poor performers against 100+ KPH targets (Mguns and Mlas), the Ember was, and still is, nothing to write home about. So yes, depending on who you talk to, a 4 Month heyday... Maybe. If it wasn't for lopsided quirks and the Jenner's huge CT the entire Firstarter lineup likely never would have seen sparkle of the spotlight.

Though some of my best Light matches were in Firestarters, most were in my Jenners... But... 886 FS9 drops versus 3,433 in the JR7 (Excluding the handful of CB stat wipes), I suppose it's a bit disproportionate... Not that it matters, given PGI's demonstrably abhorrent abandonment of the Light class as a whole for the last 2 years (Some of them even longer). Can't really call the JR7-F my favorite nerfed Mech because its fall from grace was due to utter neglect throughout the evolution of MWO... Can a Mech qualify as 'nerfed' simply for being ignored by the devs?

I think its more about the arrival of Clan Small Pulse Lasers and quirks that made the Ember irrelevant, and then the rescale decimated all Firestarters, but I recall it being the light mech of choice between its release and the Clans... or so I thought.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 04 April 2017 - 01:59 PM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I can't believe this has to be said.

"If a single Mech dominates the game, then the game is poorly programmed."

OP wants MWO to be a poorly programmed game.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Prosperity Park, on 04 April 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

"If a single Mech dominates the game, then the game is poorly programmed balanced."

OP wants MWO to be a poorly programmed balanced game.

FTFY, let's not make things more confusing.

[dario03]

DrxAbstract, on 04 April 2017 - 01:53 PM, said:

Sorry, I had the wrong reference date for the Ember's release.

Anyway, define 'good'. We have comparable damage with less cone and... They're still garbage, IMO. Devoting half your payload to them on a section of the Mech that can't hit anything beyond the most gradual of terrain gradients with midriff-mounted weapons all-round that required extensive facetime (Mguns) and are inherently poor performers against 100+ KPH targets (Mguns and Mlas), the Ember was, and still is, nothing to write home about. So yes, depending on who you talk to, a 4 Month heyday... Maybe. If it wasn't for lopsided quirks and the Jenner's huge CT the entire Firstarter lineup likely never would have seen sparkle of the spotlight.

Though some of my best Light matches were in Firestarters, most were in my Jenners... But... 886 FS9 drops versus 3,433 in the JR7 (Excluding the handful of CB stat wipes), I suppose it's a bit disproportionate... Not that it matters, given PGI's demonstrably abhorrent abandonment of the Light class as a whole for the last 2 years (Some of them even longer). Can't really call the JR7-F my favorite nerfed Mech because its fall from grace was due to utter neglect throughout the evolution of MWO... Can a Mech qualify as 'nerfed' simply for being ignored by the devs?

Good as in during its first 4 months the top choices for comp lights was the JR7-F and the Ember. They played different roles but they were about equal over all.
And it did that without quirks because there were no quirks, well except maybe the Hellslinger type quirks. And you can't compare the Firestarter of today to the Firestarter of early 2014, it was a very different game. Again no quirks (which for the FS9 is actually still mostly true but other mechs have lots), no clan mechs and clan weapons, much smaller size, smaller movement profile, etc, etc.

[DrxAbstract]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 April 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

The meta has significantly changed (and been power creeped), what's hard to understand about that?

Would you mind elaborating this a bit more?

[KingCobra]

Prosperity Park, on 04 April 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

I can't believe this has to be said.

"If a single Mech dominates the game, then the game is poorly programmed."

OP wants MWO to be a poorly programmed game.

You know what dude go take a long walk off of a short pier.

What I personally would like is MWO mechs that have been nerfed or are practically useless to become viable mechs in gameplay by fixing there hit-boxes or actually giving them some double armor so players can have a average TTL=Time to live at 4+ minutes per battle.

MWO mechs are weak if you look at past PC MechWarrior games the mechs were x10 tougher they spread damage BETTER EVEN UNDER ALPHA SHOTS. Like I have said PGI IS GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION on TTL now its becoming a true FPS game with TTL AVG 2 minutes or less and 1 shot 1 kill BS.

And yes I would like back my OP TimberWolf the way the mech was intended to be played as a fast hard hitting brawler not some crap mech taken down in 1-2 Gauss PPC blasts to the CT.

Edited by KingCobra, 04 April 2017 - 02:49 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

DrxAbstract, on 04 April 2017 - 02:48 PM, said:

Would you mind elaborating this a bit more?

Dario already did that for me.