202 replies to this topic

[Eddie Money]

So I just started MWO and am having a lot of fun. I'm not a stranger to slower-paced, tactical shooters - I come here as a player of World of Tanks (albeit a terrible one) and World of Warships (and a much less terrible one).

I have in mind what I want - a second line fire support Mech that provides a lot of firepower to help the big guys, ideally sticking with or at least near them, helping sweep the annoying little ones away so they can brawl. I'm not a fan of LRMs or SRMs so far. I'd like to be decently well protected armor-wise, but it's not imperative. Some mobility is also important. Mostly, I just want to lay down fire support from behind the front line and provide some real punch.

I assume I'll end up with a Medium or Heavy here. Any thoughts? I already know common knowledge for new players is Centurion or Hunchback, by the way (and my need to be a special snowflake makes those less appealing).

[Xaat Xuun]

was there a faction Preference ? like are you planning to get into faction Play

the Hunchback IIC is always a solid choice, and it's a trial at the moment

[Eddie Money]

Xaat Xuun, on 10 April 2017 - 09:53 PM, said:

was there a faction Preference ? like are you planning to get into faction Play

the Hunchback IIC is always a solid choice, and it's a trial at the moment

I guess Clan would be overall preference, but I'm fine with driving an IS mech.

[Ertur]

IS side, Hunchback is a relatively inexpensive but fairly effective mech. Don't try using an XL in the variants with a big hunch, though. Blackjacks are underappreciated, I think, and may be worth a look.

Clan side, the Stormcrow is a beast. Lots of different things you can do with that. The Nova can hit very hard, but it's hard to keep its heat in check with many of its builds. The Timberwolf, if you are set on a heavy, is top notch but will cost a lot to get and configure.

edit to add: if you haven't already, check out the MWO build lab at http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
That has a list of all of the mechs, with their hardpoints and quirks. You can also pick out a chassis, and see what it would cost to build out.

Edited by Ertur, 10 April 2017 - 10:26 PM.

[Jingseng]

I mean... some of the stuff you say is contradictory.

You want to be back line FS and kill lights, but you don't like LRMs OR SRMs.

You want to kill lights, but in a heavy, and mobility is not primary...

You want to provide punch, but apparently only with direct fire weapons that generally need boating and lack range to be back line...

You want to stick with the big mechs... but be in the back line/not int he front line (I mean, that happens a lot, doesn't mean it is right way to play big mechs... read ongoing, ubiq discussions on lrms)

I mean, it's like saying you want to be a sniper, but camo isn't important and you hate heavy, large rifles, you'd rather just use sub machine guns, and also you don't plan on slimming down from 400 lbs and 38% body fat.

I really don't know what to tell you. When you say you imagine being fire support, can you be more specific? Like what, specifically and actually, you will be doing in a given match?

Edited by Jingseng, 10 April 2017 - 10:52 PM.

[Xaat Xuun]

Clan:
Heavy-
Ebon Jag
Hellbringer
Mad dog
Linebacker
Night Gyr

Medium-
Hunchback IIC
Stormcrow =Streak Crow

Edited by Xaat Xuun, 10 April 2017 - 10:53 PM.

[JC Daxion]

If you want to buy 3 mechs so you can level to elite.. go with the IS HBK, 4SP, 4H and 4P for most flexibility. For you starter bonus cash you can buy all 3, upgrade them, and grab a STD250 engine to play around in. then use that extra money to try and buy a bunch of different weapons.

the chassis will let you try out auto cannons, energy, missiles, Gauss, PPC ext.. Basically a very good way to try out the game, get a nice chassis and have some fun in a fairly tanky/forgiving solid mech.

another good IS option is the shadow Hawk, basically kinda like an HBK with JJ's


If you want to go clan, the stormcrow is a good option. While you only will be able to buy one, it is a decent enough mech that you can grind with it to earn the extra cash to get 2 more but it will take you a while to get them.

basically, medium mechs are a good way to learn the game, they are more forgiving in terms of positioning, and you don't need to carry to win. You can play around with all weapons while you learn the game and the maps, and play with many types of builds in these mechs, that can be brawler, meduim range skirmisher, or longer ranged builds.


So yea, like the other guy said, HBK for IS (or shadow hawk+ one of the shadow hawks has a nice XL-275 in it for XL builds) the cheaper way to go

stormcrow for clanners a bit more flexible in the end, but more expensive.

[Tesunie]

Eddie Money, on 10 April 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

So I just started MWO and am having a lot of fun. I'm not a stranger to slower-paced, tactical shooters - I come here as a player of World of Tanks (albeit a terrible one) and World of Warships (and a much less terrible one).

I have in mind what I want - a second line fire support Mech that provides a lot of firepower to help the big guys, ideally sticking with or at least near them, helping sweep the annoying little ones away so they can brawl. I'm not a fan of LRMs or SRMs so far. I'd like to be decently well protected armor-wise, but it's not imperative. Some mobility is also important. Mostly, I just want to lay down fire support from behind the front line and provide some real punch.

I assume I'll end up with a Medium or Heavy here. Any thoughts? I already know common knowledge for new players is Centurion or Hunchback, by the way (and my need to be a special snowflake makes those less appealing).

As far as fire support without LRMs...

The Hunchback (and Hunchback IIC) come to mind as a typical good starter. There is a variant for every flavor, be it ballistics, lasers or even missiles. Plenty of variety and no one set build for them.

If you want something that typically shoots farther back, the Crab does come to mind. It can be tanky with a Std engine due to hit box shapes, as it's easy to redirect damage to a side torso most times, even by accident. I find it can go reasonable speeds even with a Std engine, as well as can fit plenty of punch. Triple ERLLs works rather well as a long range support mech. Only problem with the mech is honestly, it's pure energy. There is no C-bill variant with anything other than energy capabilities.

The Stormcrow does also come to mind, but I don't own any so I can't make any personal suggestions with it. I do know that the Nova and Huntsmen are solid choices, particularly if you are someone whom thinks in 3D as well, utilizing JJs. If you aren't interested in JJs or don't wish to use them, you probably should shy away from those chassis, as they benefit greatly from good use of JJs.


On the heavier side of things, the Ebon Jaguar is typically a solid choice, as well as the Timberwolf. Each are mobile and have plenty of space for weapon choices. The Timberwolf is probably a better choice between the two, simply because it is able to mount JJ if desired, but it is not forced to either. The Hellbringer can also be a reasonable choice because of it's ECM. I've never had luck with it, but I know a lot of other people do. I'd stay away from Summoners as a first mech. It's not a bad chassis, but it's not the greatest and typically requires more skill to really get working. However, it isn't terrible either if you really wished to.

Though you said you didn't like missiles, the Mad Dog also needs to be mentioned. Reasonably good hit boxes and can pack a large punch with SRMs or LRMs, and still have reasonable room for some other weapons. If you really want to be a light mech hunter, a Mad Dog with SSRMs and lasers might be a reasonable idea.

For IS heavies... I never had much luck with any of them. But the Black Knight and Grasshoppers I've been told are really good. I own the Grasshopper, and it's solid at least. Thunderbolts also come to mind, but I'm not sure how they are holding up as of recently. Catapults are always a crowd favorite, and it has a Cat for nearly any build you'd like, but most of them do have a focus on missiles and energy.


Sorry if I wasn't too helpful. I'm honestly a medium mech pilot myself, so I don't have a lot of recent experience on the heavier chassis as of late...

[chucklesMuch]

Eddie Money, on 10 April 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

So I just started MWO and am having a lot of fun. I'm not a stranger to slower-paced, tactical shooters - I come here as a player of World of Tanks (albeit a terrible one) and World of Warships (and a much less terrible one).

I have in mind what I want - a second line fire support Mech that provides a lot of firepower to help the big guys, ideally sticking with or at least near them, helping sweep the annoying little ones away so they can brawl. I'm not a fan of LRMs or SRMs so far. I'd like to be decently well protected armor-wise, but it's not imperative. Some mobility is also important. Mostly, I just want to lay down fire support from behind the front line and provide some real punch.

I assume I'll end up with a Medium or Heavy here. Any thoughts? I already know common knowledge for new players is Centurion or Hunchback, by the way (and my need to be a special snowflake makes those less appealing).

What about a ngt gyr? Heavy that can carry weapons close to an assault. Not fast but has jj and boating 6x Uac2's can be a fun way to provide dps support (decent range too)... or lots of builds...

[Audacious Aubergine]

If faction doesn't matter, consider a Rifleman for ballistic weapon direct-fire support. It's not exactly tough and probably not that fast but it can spam a whole lot of giant potato bullets at people.
See also the Blackjack (BJ-1) for a smaller version of it that can spam a lot of smaller potato bullets

Edited by Audacious Aubergine, 11 April 2017 - 12:47 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

Considering you're new I recommend getting a relatively fast and maneuverable mech so you can be aggressive but also get out of trouble fast.

A linebacker is good but it's more of a fast flanker rather than a support mech. A storm crow is ok, there are different viable builds for it, but it is not really outstanding compared to other choices.

The hunchback iic is excellent in all respects as a medium mech. It has very favorable gun mounts and very useful jump jets. It can use bit/ ballistic and energy well and packs a punch.

A hellbringer is similar but heavier and with ecm. However, it's balance of weight and firepower isn't quite as good as the hunchback iic.

The ebon jag is another classic support mech. You can have a huge variety if viable weapons loads. The only problem is it doesn't do
Jump jets and it's a little fragile.

The summoner has only a single good build for a support role: ppc sniper.

The Timberwolf is the classic clan fast heavy mech. Veteran players can do very well with it. However, it may be tougher for newbies because its maneuverability has been repeatedly nerfed and it tends to attract fire.

Night gyr is a great mech for jump sniping. However, it's very slow and could be hard to play for a newbie.

So, bottom line:
Hunchback iic
Hellbringer
Ebon jag

Would be my choices. Hunchback iic would be the top choice for me. Ebon jag and hellbringer choice would depend on weather you favor ecm vs build flexibility. Ecm can be very helpful for newbies. The first mech I truly did well with was an Atlas DDC (wouldn't recommend that these days).

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 11 April 2017 - 03:05 AM.

[Koniving]

Eddie Money, on 10 April 2017 - 09:43 PM, said:

So I just started MWO and am having a lot of fun. I'm not a stranger to slower-paced, tactical shooters - I come here as a player of World of Tanks (albeit a terrible one) and World of Warships (and a much less terrible one).

I have in mind what I want - a second line fire support Mech that provides a lot of firepower to help the big guys, ideally sticking with or at least near them, helping sweep the annoying little ones away so they can brawl. I'm not a fan of LRMs or SRMs so far. I'd like to be decently well protected armor-wise, but it's not imperative. Some mobility is also important. Mostly, I just want to lay down fire support from behind the front line and provide some real punch.

I assume I'll end up with a Medium or Heavy here. Any thoughts? I already know common knowledge for new players is Centurion or Hunchback, by the way (and my need to be a special snowflake makes those less appealing).

Second line support mech, medium to heavy.

Well, among all the other reasons including being able to do just about anything and to improve with you, the other reason Hunchbacks (the IS version not the Clan) is often recommended is simply this: It's damn cheap and doesn't require an XL engine to carry solid payloads. It is also tanky as heck (the HBK IIC is not). For second line fire support I recommend 4P, 4J, 4SP or going ballistic, an XL engine and 4G with some AC/5s, UAC/5s or three AC/2s.

This said, you're already aware of that suggestion. so....

Clan:

• Mad Dog. Fast, capable, can use a bit of everything and is affordable. Excels at missile and energy loadouts.
  
• Hellbringer. Like lots of weapons? This thing will let you hold all kinds of things. Space is somewhat limited though so a couple of hefty weapons and the rest being lots of lighter backup guns is ideal. This is like the Clan version of the Warhawmmer. An ECM omnipod helps.
  
• Summoner. Ideal for a few heavy weapons though it can be a solid missileer as well. Good mech to work on pot-shot skills with. Can take a beating but ideally you want to avoid the front line since heavy weapons are slow to reload/recharge and you won't have many of them.
  
• Orion IIC; the poor man's Atlas's not so poor cousin might be a little awkward with its off center cockpit, but this thing is a thrill. Unlike most of the above, it is a Battlemech and not an Omnimech, as such you will find it to have construction rules similar to IS mechs. That means changing engines to go faster or slower is an option.

Can't recommend Night Gyr or Timber Wolf; enemies will focus you down as if you're on the front line regardless of where you are. Though of the two Night Gyr suits your preferences better. That price tag though.

Clan mediums
Out of these, Huntsman is my only recommendation. It is effectively the Clan Hunchback... Forget the HBK IIC; it doesn't have the versatility this thing does and Huntsman compares better to the IS Hunchback than the HBK IIC.

IS Heavies:

• Like missiles? Archer and Catapult have you covered. Catapult is nice and compact with a low profile. Archer can hold a bit more fun times. Both really need XL engines to shine however.
  
• Cataphract comes to mind, used to love it. Mixed feelings earlier this year have me worried about recommending it. Believe it needs a hitbox change as its body is too straight forward and the CT is too large.
  
• Jagermech, Rifleman. Hefty shooters for the second line direct fire support role. Rifleman focuses more on energy while Jagermech goes full ballistic.
  
• Thunderbolt and Marauder. Wanna tank like heck and still fire support with the best of them? Here ya go. Careful in a Marauder though, crosshairs seem to be magnetized to them. Thunderbolts, like Hunchbacks, love STD engines. In fact with a standard engine you will be able to tank more damage (due to how MWO works when you lose side torsos) than many assaults.
  
• Warhammer, naturally. Good options. Great weight class bridging the line between heavy and assault perfectly. Expect to stand out though.
  
• Like Lasers? Grasshopper and Black Knight come to mind. Can get away with STD engines easily making them cheap to run. They get hot fast.

IS mediums:

• Blackjack -- Jagermech/Rifleman's younger brother. Not as much umph but the lighter footprint tends to draw very little attention.
  
• Enforcer -- good tankability and is able to handle some hefty gear.
  
• Phoenix Hawk -- The weight of a Blackjack, the feel of a Gundam... or at least a mobile suit. XL engine is practically required. Go fast or go straight to a junk heap. But man, that view is so satisfying, especially if you have the arms unlocked and use the second cursor (o) by holding left CTRL...
  
• Griffin / Shadow Hawk / Wolverine. Different reasons for each. Griffin is an energy sniper / missileer. Shadowhawk is like a 55 ton Hunchback BUT with god awful torso twist abilities in exchange for some jumpjet capability... and the Wolverine is one of my favorites, suitable for many roles and perfectly balanced in its hitboxes to take a beating while fast enough stock to rush into the fray if need be. Wolverine is easily an 'any line' mech. Protect that right side.

Edited by Koniving, 11 April 2017 - 08:40 PM.

[Ertur]

If you do decide for hunchies, here's what I did (more or less -- I have Gridiron, but the 4G supports the same build I used):

sp http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7ac891db2c170c3
p http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d11809b188c51f0
g http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e5bf29f3788ba3a

Net cost for 3 is around 24M cbills, but you can save a bunch by sharing the std250 engine between two of them. Be warned, the 4SP build is hot, hot, hot.

[Eddie Money]

Jingseng, on 10 April 2017 - 10:48 PM, said:

I mean... some of the stuff you say is contradictory.

You want to be back line FS and kill lights, but you don't like LRMs OR SRMs.

You want to kill lights, but in a heavy, and mobility is not primary...

You want to provide punch, but apparently only with direct fire weapons that generally need boating and lack range to be back line...

You want to stick with the big mechs... but be in the back line/not int he front line (I mean, that happens a lot, doesn't mean it is right way to play big mechs... read ongoing, ubiq discussions on lrms)

I mean, it's like saying you want to be a sniper, but camo isn't important and you hate heavy, large rifles, you'd rather just use sub machine guns, and also you don't plan on slimming down from 400 lbs and 38% body fat.

I really don't know what to tell you. When you say you imagine being fire support, can you be more specific? Like what, specifically and actually, you will be doing in a given match?

I mean being second line with or around the assaults and heavies, grouped up, but not being the main focus of enemy fire. Sticking near the main group. Close fire support. The mobility and armor are more added bonuses than something I'm looking for specifically. The main concerns I have are high firepower and being able to directly give fire support to the bigger Mechs by second line-ing.

Near the front line, but in a safer spot from which I can provide big damage for my team. Between mobility and defenses, I'd rather have the latter, but as I said neither are priority #1 for me.

Edited by Eddie Money, 11 April 2017 - 08:49 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Timberwolf offers a lot of versatility in what builds you can run. It has good mobility and armor to go with it's solid firepower. It's over shadowed now by other Clan mechs in certain builds. But it's still a great all arounder. Certainly a match for most IS mechs at or below it's weight.

[Tesunie]

Eddie Money, on 11 April 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

I mean being second line with or around the assaults and heavies, grouped up, but not being the main focus of enemy fire. Sticking near the main group. Close fire support. The mobility and armor are more added bonuses than something I'm looking for specifically. The main concerns I have are high firepower and being able to directly give fire support to the bigger Mechs by second line-ing.

Near the front line, but in a safer spot from which I can provide big damage for my team. Between mobility and defenses, I'd rather have the latter, but as I said neither are priority #1 for me.

Then if that is the case, avoid the Timberwolf and Night Gyr. Those two mechs are target priority #2, with only a Kodiak and maybe a MAD IIC trumping it in being a target.

So far, all other suggestions look solid. Especially Koniving's suggestions. He's always great advice to listen to, so if you see a post from him, try to pay extra attention to it. (Not saying others can't give advice, just that he often does and is often correct and helpful.)

[Eddie Money]

I mean, I don't mind THAT much if I get fired on, I just don't want to be the "SHOOT THAT GUY FIRST!" target.

What about the Ebon Jaguar? What are the overall thoughts on that?

[Rogue Jedi]

Eddie Money, on 11 April 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

I mean, I don't mind THAT much if I get fired on, I just don't want to be the "SHOOT THAT GUY FIRST!" target.

What about the Ebon Jaguar? What are the overall thoughts on that?

Ebon Jaguar has a lot of free tonage, and versitile hardpoints thanks to being an Omnimech.
its torso weapons tend to be mounted on top of the Mech meaning it is great for firing over cover, because if you can put your croshare on target the back mounted weapons will clear the hill you are behind (a lot of Mechs have all their weapons below cockpit level)

the Ebon is not bad but I prefer Timber Wolf, Mad Dog and Helbringer ^{(but to not take Timber unless you change your mind about not wanting to be the "shoot him first" target)}
Ebon tends to be quite a way down the target prioritys list.

[LMP]

I read a post where a tier two pilot said never recommend the Timber Wolf as a first mech because it's so good you won't learn the proper way to pilot a mech, so I recommend the Timber Wolf. It can carry more weapons weight then most other mechs and is faster too. I learned this because when I wanted to buy my next mech I literally spent months trying to match it for weapons and speed with every other heavy both IS and Clan at smurfy's and it couldn't be done.

My first mech was a Hellbringer with ECM followed by four more different heavy mechs before I got a Timber Wolf, if you don't want a Timber Wolf the Hellbringer with ECM is what I would recommend. Another thing I recommend is buying only one mech no matter what it is because if you just go by what people say there is a good chance you will end up not liking it.

[Tesunie]

LMP, on 11 April 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

I read a post where a tier two pilot said never recommend the Timber Wolf as a first mech because it's so good...

I've heard that line too... I don't believe it either.

I wouldn't recommend the Timber not because "It's too good" but because "It's too good".
You see, the reasoning is different. With them, it's too good and won't "teach" you anything. For me, it's too good in the sense that a lot of people know enough that it is dangerous, and thus will focus it down more naturally (more people want to shoot it). If you die early, it is harder to learn how to play the game.

If a new pilot is willing to take up being a priority target, than by all means get one. It is a solid mech from everything I've heard (I still don't own one). Just realize, you are going to take a lot of incoming fire when people do see you, once they realize what you are.