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Is Pilots- Clan Op?


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#1 Ragnar Baron Leiningen

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:17 AM

So I've been dropping IS for about two weeks now. I honestly do not know what is pilots are crying about clans so hard for. My mechs have zero modules on them. (Separate account, very little play time until recently) and I can at least do 1200 damage and 3-4 kills. I mean if you guys would just organize at least into 6-8 mans and learn how to torso twist you would be significantly better. Is mechs run cooler, they are more durable. I don't understand how IS pilots are not stomping the **** out off clans every night. Playing clan requires finess, heat management, managing your fall back points ahead of time. Playing IS should be a cakewalk by comparison.

#2 BigScwerl

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:01 AM

View PostRagnar Baron Leiningen, on 19 April 2017 - 09:17 AM, said:

So I've been dropping IS for about two weeks now. I honestly do not know what is pilots are crying about clans so hard for. My mechs have zero modules on them. (Separate account, very little play time until recently) and I can at least do 1200 damage and 3-4 kills. I mean if you guys would just organize at least into 6-8 mans and learn how to torso twist you would be significantly better. Is mechs run cooler, they are more durable. I don't understand how IS pilots are not stomping the **** out off clans every night. Playing clan requires finess, heat management, managing your fall back points ahead of time. Playing IS should be a cakewalk by comparison.


People whine when they lose. People only lose when the other side is cheating or OP.
Posted Image

#3 MovinTarget

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:05 AM

Its the same on both sides.

There are capable players that will do well if they drop 3 urbies and a mauler or 3 mist lynx and a kdk... then there are those that refuse to accept that perhaps they do need better/more appropriate decks or deny that their their track has more to do with their own approach than the other 23 people in the match.

Then some are so cancerous to the team it doesn't matter how good they are, no one wants to drop with them...

Edited by MovinTarget, 19 April 2017 - 10:06 AM.


#4 MovinTarget

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 10:10 AM

View PostBigScwerl, on 19 April 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

People only lose when the other side is cheating or OP.


I guess teamwork and communication are bannable offenses...

There may be cheating out there, however i doubt its as prevalent as many make out to be... most incidents i can chalk up to game issues or bad/delayed weapons fire. I remember dying to ppc fire and not seeing the graphic hit my corpse until after i was dead...

Edited by MovinTarget, 19 April 2017 - 08:53 PM.


#5 MischiefSC

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:16 PM

I'll take a Clan mech over an IS mech of equal tonnage in a duel 9 times in 10. Clan mechs are heavily represented in comp play for a reason as well; best in class almost across the board.

In FW however Clans are superior if and only if the team in Clan mechs plays super aggressive, exploiting their mobility and burst damage advantage. Most Clan players fail in Clan mechs because Clan mechs walking backwards are not faster than IS mechs moving forward and if you're not hustling to get into position first then the mobility advantage is largely lost. If you're staring each other down, etc. then it's also no real advantage.

In FW however almost universally the tech advantages such as they are (and they're smaller than ever) don't come into play much because most players don't put them into play much.

If you're bringing good direct fire builds than an extra 10 pts of structure (which is prone to getting destroyed at faster rates by crits) in single locations is of minimal use; if you're bringing LRMs and vomiting damage over a whole mech then the extra structure in arms and torsos all gets put into play and it probably seems like a big deal. If you've got a good Clan build (which is usually about 10 pts per alpha higher damage than comparable IS loadout) and are focusing fire then 3 mechs shooting ~60pts each at 1 target don't care and the amount of laughing over 'failed XL checks' is real.

No teamwork, no focused fire, no coordination, bad builds and selfish playstyles are all too common in FW and as such the tech difference isn't noticeable.

#6 The6thMessenger

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 07:27 PM

Technologically, Clan is op over IS.

But coordination is more OP. That's why sometimes IS win over Clan, when Clan is less coordinated.

#7 justcallme A S H

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 09:04 PM

View PostMovinTarget, on 19 April 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:


I guess teamwork and communication are bannable offenses...

There may be cheating out there, however i doubt its as prevalent as many make out to be... most incidents i can chalk up to game issues or bad/delayed weapons fire. I remember dying to ppc fire and not seeing the graphic hit my corpse until after i was dead...


Given the amount of times people have claimed "hackers" against the opposition (whoever I'm teamed with, myself included) - and I know for a fact no one is hacking... Then yeah, it's just bad players crying foul for people being better and more organised.

I mean it's not *that* hard to land a laser vom alpha to a torso when someone is standing still, staring you down... Then they wonder why they die.

I can often chew through 3-4 mechs on my own if I'm in a brawler because people don't twist. They just look at you as if that SRM/SPL TBR is a big cuddly bear or something.

It's just bad pilots on both sides. Same as QP really, plenty of bads that don't actually WANT to improve. They'd rather just complain.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 19 April 2017 - 09:04 PM.


#8 B0oN

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:36 PM

All pilots and mechs OP .
Nerf mechs and pilots finally .
Gimme my Elemental suit and ManpackPPC finally, gawddamnit .

Also :

Skill cannot be replaced by butter .
Or was it the other way round ?
...
I dunno anymore, you guys are so confusing with all the plot twistings and personality changes Posted Image

P.s.: Amen, Ash .
But I gotta interject into sumthing you said, from at least my point of view (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) :
My IS and Clan builds(MINE, not yours or anybody elses) have pretty comparable firepowers (alpha-wise) ... the IS mechs though, ... they feel a little touch more "at home" with them (weirdly, especially those with STD engines... make that of it, what you want, but that is my personal perception, yours or anyone ele´s might differ mightily), enabling me to play more wantonly and aggressive with them than I would´ve done with a weight/firepower-comparable clanmech-loadout .

Edited by The Shortbus, 20 April 2017 - 02:44 PM.


#9 BigScwerl

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:17 PM

View PostMovinTarget, on 19 April 2017 - 10:10 AM, said:


I guess teamwork and communication are bannable offenses...

There may be cheating out there, however i doubt its as prevalent as many make out to be... most incidents i can chalk up to game issues or bad/delayed weapons fire. I remember dying to ppc fire and not seeing the graphic hit my corpse until after i was dead...


Hmmmmmm. Maybe you weren't picking up what I was putting down, or smelling what I was stepping in. Maybe this gif will help explain my position on this issue.
Posted Image

A well coordinated unit, good tactics, good builds and good piloting will always Win. We Clanners have a number of units capable of such things, as do the Inner Sphere Units. There are excellent players on both sides of the divide. When a skilled group of players runs up against a poor group. OP! and Haxorz! can be heard like the cries of a ************ fairy being sat on by an elephant. Meh.

#10 Torchfire Katayama

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 04:50 PM

Clans have hotter weapons with longer durations and more spread to compensate the couple extra points of damage they can do. To make up for hard point swapping, Clan's can't change engines.

IS have more armor/internals and a larger variety of pinpoint weapons with shorter durations to compensate for the extra weight and crit slots they take up in addition to no hardpoint swapping.

Seems fair. I know which one I'd rather have.


Yeah I'm a Clanner, but that doesn't invalidate my point of view. I've always admired the Clan structure and ideals. For me choosing a tech base and a faction is more about the aesthetics and ideals. I don't like what the Inner Sphere represent or their history.

That said, within the confines of this game, if I had to choose over an IS ERLL or a Clan ER LL, to choose between an IS AC/20 or a Clan AC/20, I'd pick the IS versions both times because they are simply tactically better. The same hold true for comparing Clan vs IS LRMs and SRMs. And once the new tech weapons are patched in, the balance between the Clan and IS weapons is going to need some serious balancing if their current values are kept.


But hey, maybe the grass is just always greener on the other side.

Edited by Torchfire Katayama, 20 April 2017 - 05:12 PM.


#11 23203

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:28 PM

In general i would not say clan is OP. Sometimes i ask me why some clan mechs are so extrem fast for its class what
destoys a bit the class system when an assault is faster then your heavy or a med can speed up with your light.

Another thing is piloting lights in IS versus clan. Never ever try to fight against a claner light in your is. Claner can
absorb an incredible amount of damage especially the cheatah. You have to aim for legs where the enemy can try
to kill your less armored side torso.

Maybe Marauder IIc is a bit unbalanced^^

#12 Larcen Dredi

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 06:38 PM

Clan tech has an advantage, it is supposed to. To say it doesn't is just delusion. Clans have speed synergy, superior weapon ranges, and great cooling efficiency. Sure they spike on the heat, but they cool off quickly because of the sheer number of heatsinks and dissipation. The biggest shortcoming for clans lies in the brawl, there are not too many truly brawly builds that can sustain high damage output while still taking shots to the face. Clans are best at picking IS mechs apart at range and then moving for the kill. Or using several fast high alpha mechs to swarm the enemy and take out heavy hitters before they can react and break off to cool down. Many clan mechs do well with hit and fade tactics.

IS on the other hand has a bit lower punch, but can usually sustain it for longer periods, have less range, but are better up close. If you can get an IS murder ball going it can be glorious. Sadly though you see IS pilots trying to trade long range with superior clan tech at range and lose badly. The rest of the time though you are herding cats and they are chasing one light baiting while Clan mechs ERPPC/Gauss them in the backs. IS XL is a pain, don't run it and you have some tonnage/speed issues, or run it and lose durability. Some mechs are really good with an XL, some are trash. Most good pilots will just look at your loadout and know with half a second of mental math if you are running an XL or not and go for your side torso. Frankly though I always liked this part of play and felt the risk/reward nature of it appealing. Clans needed some more risk, and since the heat and speed nerf it feels like engine damage means something.

When it comes to winning, I feel that boils down mostly to coordination, and playing to your strengths. But I will say take an Awesome with ERPPC's, then take a Warhawk and compare your damage. I will get 40% more in the Warhawk on average. Targeting computer? ERPPC splash? Extra range? I dunno but it is pretty obvious to me how much easier it is in the Warhawk to mangle stuff.

#13 naterist

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:19 PM

^exactly, doesnt matter how much better our weapons are in a brawl if a killable component is no armour and orange and the enemy knows it, because you had to close to range before you can touch the enemy. this can be mitigated on some maps, but the ones that are good for closing predominately didnt make it into fw 4.1, and the wide open ones predominately did. before that it was exclusively chokepoint maps, which exasperates that same problem in a similar way.

#14 Carl Vickers

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 09:06 PM

Clans are better for newbies getting to know the game.

IS is hard mode but if you can succeed in IS you will do very well in clans.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses, need to learn both to be truly effective in one or the other.

#15 Grus

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 09:17 AM

This post.. no... just no.

Our parts fly off now once armor is reduced so all those "superior" items we have stuffed in our mechs get vaporized just yet looking at them...

So yeah.. no...

#16 B0oN

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:36 AM

View PostCarl Vickers, on 20 April 2017 - 09:06 PM, said:

Clans are better for newbies getting to know the game.

IS is hard mode but if you can succeed in IS you will do very well in clans.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses, need to learn both to be truly effective in one or the other.


Keep preachin´ , brother, I feel ya !

AMEN

#17 Vxheous

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:44 AM

I mean, to be fair, the IS doesn't have a viable counter to the PPFLD poptart meta. IS has no Night Gyr equivalent that runs cool on the hottest maps, while being able to poptart PPFLD. Getting smoked by multiple Night Gyr pop-tarts while closing in an IS XL mech = teh suck

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 22 April 2017 - 10:45 AM.


#18 Catten Hart

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 10:46 AM

They break down and explode just like IS opponents. So no, I don't think they are very OP.

Typically, Clan Mechs being "Better" is two things;

- Higher overall Hardpoints. Not that this is everything, but in poke wars PUGs tend to be fond of, it plays a huge role in getting damage out early and often.

- More damage-per ton for equipment. Clan mechs have higher damage overall for the tonnage, what with Gauss Rifles and AC20s weighing 2-3 tons less for them. Granted, UAC-20s may spread all over, but it's still a considerable amount of damage. Not to mention the half-weight Clan LRMs/SRMs, or the weight saving going into non-lethal tech. ECM/BAP both weigh .5 tons less and take up one crit, free CASE, 7 crit Endo/Ferro, 2 crit DHS... the list goes on. While IS tech tends to be cooler and thus more easy to deal with, it's still a natural imbalance.

With all this is mind, I still say Clanners got hit with the nerf hammer a little too hard, especially regarding Gauss. Not that it's changed much, but it's still a bit overextreme.

In the end, I'd prefer mixed tech at this point, but having mechs still faction-locked during FP. Only exception being structure materials (For example, only IS Mechs being able to mount Stealth Armor.)

Edited by Catten Hart, 22 April 2017 - 10:46 AM.


#19 MischiefSC

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 12:01 PM

Mixed tech would mean everyone would take Clan XL, Clan Endo, Clan FF, Clan DHS, Clan SPLs, Clan Gauss, Clan ERPPCs, Clan Gauss, Clan BAP, Clan ECM, the free Clan CASE. In some instances Clan LBX and Clan UACs, Clan MGs and Clan Flamers.

They would take IS LPLs, in some instances IS ACs and in a couple of cases IS ERLLs maybe.

Yeah. That's it. Nobody would bother is IS MLs, IS LLs, IS MPLs, IS SLs or SPLs, IS LB10X, IS SRMs, is MGs, is Flamers. I can't say about LRMs because nobody who's making good decisions on mech design is taking LRMs anyway. I'm guessing the half-weight LRMs are still probably better but hard to say.

Nobody would take IS engines, IS Endo, is FF, is DHS, etc.

The only reason FW is reasonably balanced now is that Clans can bring less total tonnage. That's not balanced, it's ******* balance in order to try and create the illusion of balance.

#20 LordLeto

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 03:59 PM

You could make an argument for IS SRMs given their tighter spread, but it would be a definite trade of weight/slots for that spread. But other than that pretty spot on list.





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