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Differences Between Group Queue, Faction Play And Teams

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#1 Serpentine Shel Serpentine

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:11 AM

Hello: I'm a new player and I'm at a stage where I'd like to start working with a group or team so that teamwork would be a little more reliable. I think I might live longer in each match that way and improve my skills and the exeprience overall. Can Someone explain how the "group queue" works and how that differed from team play, Community warfare, clan warfare, etc. (if they are different). What does his nomenclature mean? Do groups formed in LFG get matched against singles -- which could explain some of the horrible stomps I've been on the wrong end of -- or are they matched only against other groups? Do teams play in PUG, CW or both? What's the best way to find a group, team, or clan? How do you friend invite someone during a game? Thanks for any advice.

#2 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 01:02 PM

Group Queue
a group cannot be matched against solo players, and LFG does count as a group, teams can and do play in group queue as well as FP and if they are not a full 12 will be formed into a Pick Up Group (PUG)

it is mostly like solo queue, except that before launch you form up into a group.
the group can be any size except 1 or 11 players (because solos complained about groups stomping them, thus with no 1 size you cannot form a 12 player team with an 11 player group).

the fewer players are in the group the wider tonage range you have to play with. as a larger group mostly all on teamspeak is a huge force multiplier PGI placed limitations on the available tonnage, a 2 player groups total tonage must be somewhere between 40 and 200 tons total (20-100 tons each), a 12 player group has (if I remember correctly) 550-600 tons (about 45-50 tons each) with intermdeiate sizes getting a decrease for each additional player, which can be irritating if you start with say 3 players and as the night goes on you get another 9 join up, because with each new player you have to shuffle tonage, by the time you get to about 6 people unless someone wants to take lights you have to tell people sorry but you will have to get out of that assualt, but provided tonage is available you can take any Mech.

When you (assuming you are the group leader) hit the launch button, matchmaker takes a look at the level of each player and works out an average level for your group, it then tries to form a match with your team having the same level as the enemy team, it does not take tonage or group sizes into account.
when the voting screen comes up the group leader is the only one with a vote.


Faction play
also known as Comunity warfare, and by some people clan warfare, you can only take ether Clan or IS Mechs not both, and which you take depends on your current contract
in Faction play there is no skill based matchmaker, and nothing stopping 12 individuals being put up against an elite 12 player team, you have been warned. there are 2 modes

scouting, 4v4, Clan v IS, no respawns, no Mechs heavier than 55 tons and no Clan Mechs heavier than 50 tons, group sizes from 1-4 players are allowed
you run arround the map (normal quick play maps) hunting down "intel points" to capture one stand on it for 3 seconds, when one team has 11 points the drop ship is called in, for the "attacker" to win they have to have at least 1 player in the circle when the timer runs out, and must have collected at least 1 point. for the defenders to win they must stop the "attackers" from extracting.
At the end of each round the intel is added to a progress bar, if your side gets past I think 60% you start getting support powers for the other mode, if the enemy side is winning they get them

The other mode is 12v12 Clan v IS with 4 respawns for each player, the 4 Mechs must be selected in advance and must fit within a specified tonage range, any size of group from 1 to 12 is allowed.
The Quick Play maps and modes are used in faction play, there is also an "invasion mode" where you have to take/hold a base.

In attack/defend mode the base is fully functional and the "defender" is in the base, they have to protect some generators and the orbital gun, for the attackers to win they have to take down the gens and the gun.
In counter attack mode, the "attackers" have taken the base which is deactivated, the "defenders" have to kill all attackers and their mobile HQ to retake the base.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 21 April 2017 - 03:42 AM.


#3 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 03:49 PM

if you want a hands-on explanation or demo, lemme know. I sent you a PM

#4 Serpentine Shel Serpentine

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 05:46 PM

One question: can groups be matched up against a group of totally solo players? or they are totally separate queues?

#5 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 07:37 PM

View PostDeloresAbernathy, on 20 April 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

One question: can groups be matched up against a group of totally solo players? or they are totally separate queues?


Groups can be made up of players all from one unit or it can be a co-op (formed up group) of individuals from different units or non-associated players PRIOR to taking a drop.

Faction Play only - Groups/units can be matched up against solo players and/or a combination of solo/unit/group players ONLY in Faction Play matches, be it Scouting or Invasion. That combination can be formed up prior to the drop but is not necessary.

Below is separate queues
Normal quickplay Group queue, groups vs groups be it 12-man unit vs 2player group or greater to 10player+2player group
Normal quickplay Solo queue, solo vs solo

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 20 April 2017 - 07:39 PM.


#6 justcallme A S H

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 10:08 PM

GQ explained in a few points.

- Must drop with 2-10 or 12 players. You cannot drop solo in GQ, and cannot drop with 11.

- You have tonnage restrictions which are tighter the larger the group. So you cannot drop 12 Assaults, as example.

- There is no match maker

- Ideally it's best to drop in 4 / 6 / 8 due to tonnage, also even numbers. Otherwise the search can go for a while as you're an odd number and most drop in even.

- You can from a GQ group with anyone.


Faction Play

- Must drop with people from same side. So either IS or Clan. You cannot drop both unless a freelancer.

- Can drop with anything between solo and 12. There is no "11" restriction like GQ.

- Faction Play has a different tonnage system to GQ. It's a total of 240/265 across 4 mechs.

- There are 4 mechs to a "drop deck"

- Usually it's teams playing FP, don't drop solo. You'll have a bad time. Get on a TS Hub, find a team.

#7 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:09 AM

And to add to the above: Solo/Group Queue you can use Clan or IS mechs, regardless of the Faction selected, if any. Faction Play though, If you go Clan Loyalist/Clan Merc contract you can only use Clan mechs, if IS Loyalist/IS Merc contract you can only use IS mechs.

#8 Koniving

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:42 AM

View PostDeloresAbernathy, on 20 April 2017 - 05:46 PM, said:

One question: can groups be matched up against a group of totally solo players? or they are totally separate queues?

There isn't really such a thing as a group of solo players, those would be playing on their own in solo queue.

The closest thing that can happen is a group of 12 (or 2 groups of 6, 2 groups with one being of 8 and the other of four, etc.) could be pit against 6 groups of 2.

In cases like this in any variation, the team with more groups invariably will always have a higher permitted tonnage than the team with fewer groups of greater numbers of players per group.

Thus while one side has more team interaction guaranteed (since larger organized groups), the other team has superior available tonnage.

A 6 player + 6 player might be bringing two assaults, some heavies, a few mediums and some lights.
A set of 6 groups of 2 players each could bring 12 100 ton assaults if they wanted.

Edited by Koniving, 21 April 2017 - 04:38 AM.


#9 The Jerol

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 07:58 AM

I think he's asking whether or not as a solo queue player you will ever see groups in your queue. In other words, in any given solo queue match, will there ever be small groups included?

It doesn't seem like there are enough players to support completely separate group and solo queues. In World of Tanks (which has vastly more players), groups can and do queue with solo players -- the matchmaker just makes sure to include equal numbers of grouped players on each side.

I'm not sure of the answer to this -- I only drop solo (well, a few drops with Koniving not withstanding) and I am fairly certain I see groups in my games from time to time. (or maybe it's just luck -- but I will see 2-3 players from the same unit on a side)


TJ

#10 Koniving

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 08:02 AM

You're correct in what the question is Jerol.
"can groups be matched up against a group of totally solo players? or they are totally separate queues?"
"In other words, in any given solo queue match, will there ever be small groups included?"

The straight answer (which I figured was answered already) is no (as I sad before) from the perspective of groups facing solos. and therefore no but not impossible on the solos facing a small group.

A player can simultaneously try to drop as a friend does, which runs the chance that said player may appear in the same game as that friend within the solo queue. This is pure chance and it is just as likely to be on opposing teams as it is to be on the same team.

The answer I gave earlier was if you started with a group, can you be matched against solo players.

Edited by Koniving, 21 April 2017 - 08:10 AM.


#11 Serpentine Shel Serpentine

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:43 AM

View PostKoniving, on 21 April 2017 - 08:02 AM, said:

You're correct in what the question is Jerol.
"can groups be matched up against a group of totally solo players? ....... The straight answer (which I figured was answered already) is no (as I sad before) from the perspective of groups facing solos. and therefore no but not impossible on the solos facing a small group.

The answer I gave earlier was if you started with a group, can you be matched against solo players.


Sorry to beat a dead mech but I'm still confused on the question which TJ correctly states. You would know better than me but just recently I was in a game as a solo in the quickplay queue and another player on
my team said something like "guys this is going to be a grudge match so don't rush in to get revenge." This implies that some of the players on my team had just played together against players on the other side ... highly unlikely as a random event unless they were dropping together as groups. Also I've noticed that some other players in solo queue seem to know each other well and have shared strategies or may even be communicating in a separate channel like "Discord" rather than regular in-game chat (I realize this doesn't mean they dropped as a group). As a new player with little choice but to be solo it would be best for game balance if the groups were in a separate queue: at least ide like to know for sure if they are. Thanks!

Edited by DeloresAbernathy, 21 April 2017 - 12:41 PM.


#12 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:57 AM

View PostDeloresAbernathy, on 21 April 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Sorry to beat a dead mech but I'm still confused on the question which TJ correctly states. You would know better than me but just recently I was in a game as a solo in the quickplay queue and another player on
my team said something like "guys this is going to be a grudge match so don't rush in to get revenge." This implies that some of the players on my team had just played together against players on the other side ... highly unlikely as a random event unless they were dropping together as groups. Also I've noticed that some other players in solo queue seem to know each other well and have shared strategies or may even be communicating in a separate channel like "Discord" rather than regular in-game chat (intralize this doesn't mean they dropped as a group). As a new player with little choice but to be solo it would be best for game balance if the groups were in a separate queue: at least ide like to know for sure if they are. Thanks!


it is not impossible for players in group queue to reguraly play together, also some maps tend to be played certain ways, if they are experianced players they can just drop into the standard stratagy for the map and mode and have very little need to comunicate.

as for the "grudge match" dropping in the UK evening time with a set drop time, doing 10-15 drops with my Lance in group queue I will frequently run into the same group a few matches in a row, so it is quite possible, even likely, that they ran into at least some of the players on the enemy team in an earlier match.
there are even some groups who I run into most weeks, sugesting they are another lance with simular drop times, and you can get to know how those people tend to operate.

also it is not that unusual for my lance to find ourselves fighting with/against another group from our unit (of course if that happens with them on the enemy team the other players from PL become our primary targets)

on rare occaisions in solo queue I will end up on a team with another member of the Legion, if that happens you can bet we will both get on our units teamspeak to coordinate.

the groups are a seporate queue, except for faction play

#13 Serpentine Shel Serpentine

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:41 PM

OK, thanks for the explanation.

#14 Koniving

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 12:56 PM

View PostDeloresAbernathy, on 21 April 2017 - 11:43 AM, said:

Sorry to beat a dead mech but I'm still confused on the question which TJ correctly states. You would know better than me but just recently I was in a game as a solo in the quickplay queue and another player on
my team said something like "guys this is going to be a grudge match so don't rush in to get revenge." This implies that some of the players on my team had just played together against players on the other side ... highly unlikely as a random event unless they were dropping together as groups. Also I've noticed that some other players in solo queue seem to know each other well and have shared strategies or may even be communicating in a separate channel like "Discord" rather than regular in-game chat (I realize this doesn't mean they dropped as a group). As a new player with little choice but to be solo it would be best for game balance if the groups were in a separate queue: at least ide like to know for sure if they are. Thanks!

Under the assumption the quote is also in solo queue.. You should note the following things:

You can talk in solo queue to other players. My key is capslock to use my microphone.
If the player population within your tier range is pretty limited at a certain time, you will repeatedly drop with familiar faces time and time again. This goes for both sides.

A recent example from the 14th of April: In one match we were in Domination mode and we got our rear ends handed to us.
The next match I dropped into came out as domination again. A familiar name came into text chat and said "This better not go like last time, this time the reds are gonna lay down and die properly!"
As it happens that match I got the second highest score on the team and was the only survivor of both teams.
About an hour later, that same player saw me and said "C'mon Koniving, lets show them what teamwork can do!"

Solo queue, dropping randomly, didn't really know the person and never saw the name before the 14th, but several matches together and a good performance got my name specifically called out.

Actual groups are in an entirely different queue and if you ever play in it, you will be able to instantly spot the difference as it is a phenomenal increase in difficulty. In solo queue I can look pretty awesome. Put me in a group queue and sometimes I will look absolutely pathetic with a lousy 43 damage before being insta-gibbed as 6 mechs simultaneously go "It's Koniving!" and shoot me.

#15 Koniving

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:04 PM

I will note that PGI used to allow groups of 2, 3 or 4 into what was then called the Public queue and each team would have one group of four or two groups of two (or if it is a group of 3, it would usually pull in someone considered to be of higher than normal ELO to balance it out against a group of 4 or leave it as is with a rival group of 3 or 2 groups of 2). This has not been done since 2014 or 2015 and they would exclusively hold "Alpha Lance" or would have 2 in Alpha Lance and 2 in Bravo Lance if it was 2 groups of 2. Interestingly, if it was a group of 3, then the 4th person in Alpha Lance, usually listed at the top of it, was always the person with the highest ELO score on the team. and was typically the one who did the best out of everyone.

That ELO system was heavily flawed and removed in favor of the tier system. The small groups were removed from the Public Queue and it has since been renamed to Solo Queue.

#16 Serpentine Shel Serpentine

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 01:35 PM

View PostKoniving, on 21 April 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

Under the assumption the quote is also in solo queue.. You should note the following things:

You can talk in solo queue to other players. My key is capslock to use my microphone.
If the player population within your tier range is pretty limited at a certain time, you will repeatedly drop with familiar faces time and time again. This goes for both sides.

A recent example from the 14th of April: In one match we were in Domination mode and we got our rear ends handed to us.
The next match I dropped into came out as domination again. A familiar name came into text chat and said "This better not go like last time, this time the reds are gonna lay down and die properly!"
As it happens that match I got the second highest score on the team and was the only survivor of both teams.
About an hour later, that same player saw me and said "C'mon Koniving, lets show them what teamwork can do!"

Solo queue, dropping randomly, didn't really know the person and never saw the name before the 14th, but several matches together and a good performance got my name specifically called out.

Actual groups are in an entirely different queue and if you ever play in it, you will be able to instantly spot the difference as it is a phenomenal increase in difficulty. In solo queue I can look pretty awesome. Put me in a group queue and sometimes I will look absolutely pathetic with a lousy 43 damage before being insta-gibbed as 6 mechs simultaneously go "It's Koniving!" and shoot me.



This fully explains what I experienced. And Yes I do talk in solo queue and almost always ask for a plan and direction if none is offered. And there are a few players I recognize and I assume vice-versa. Sadly even in solo queue I can be "insta gibbed" (love that phrase) when I step out too quickly to fight and find myself suddenly alone with three or more angry red guys. I'm
slowly learning my lesson to push only when everyone agrees to push or already is pushing.
Once I didn't appreciate the directions I got, which was to "get near" the enemy even after my weapons were all destroyed in order to "help the team" -- I suppose as a damage sponge, spotter or whatever. But I was not in a light mech (it was a Mad IIc) so it was a suicide mission. I mean just out of curiosity do you think it's appropriate to ask a teammate to take a certain death for the team? I had already killed an enemy and done plenty of damage so it's not like I was slacking. It was a very close match so maybe I'm wrong but it seemed like a lot to ask. I died.
Thanks for the detailed information .. it's very helpful.

#17 Koniving

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:06 PM

I have a perfect example of that damage sponge... For best effect, read the entire story carefully and in one sitting.

It won't let me quote it properly but here's the link.

June 11th 2013:

Koniving said:

The battletech and mechwarrior series has never been about quick kills. It's not supposed to be. It's supposed to be the challenge of two or many behemoths battling each other in a battle of wits, skill, luck and cunning.

Yesterday me and another guy were piloting Miseries on voice comms. We've been brawling enemies in two on one battles when they are isolated. Finally it boils down to two enemies left. Both of them had 4 ER PPC rigs (one a stalker, one an Atlas RS with a Gauss Rifle on the side). They had just killed the 6th player, leaving only the two of us.

My teammate had been soaking most of the damage up to this point. When we charge them, he dies in the first volley of 8 ER PPCs. The enemy stalker shuts down. The Atlas is still moving. Since the enemy stalker was the weakest of the two in terms of armor, I went for him. With both of them pelting me from different angles at every opportunity that they could, I had my twin standard PPCs, 3 Medium Lasers, UAC/5, and Streak SRM-2 loaded up. I tore through the side of the stalker. He began to panic and move behind the Atlas.

I whirl around to give chase -- all of us repeatedly powering down because every single one of us are running hot on Tourmaline. With the Atlas between me and the other stalker while it cooled down, I began using only the streak and the UAC/5 to help facilitate my own cooldown while still doing damage but the damn thing keeps jamming! I cut to just the cannon as I push past the Atlas; I was going to disable that stalker altogether. When the stalker peeked to shoot at me from behind the Atlas, I let off an alpha strike. PPCs at 89 meters, 3 ML, streak and a UAC/5 into his surviving shoulder. Cherry red but I shut down. The Atlas just did another alpha strike into my side and powered down. I hear sparks. I've lost my side. It's now or never. I power up prematurely. "Override shutdown." Another alpha! Power down immediately. The stalker lost his other side torso. He's effectively weaponless.

The Atlas is panicking, powers up to give off another alpha just to shut right back down. Since I lost a laser, a PPC, and a streak, I now had better heat efficiency. Though I lost a few heatsinks as well. Still I was able to power right back up. My CT armor is gone thanks to that last strike. I whirl around counter-clockwise, not giving him any more chances to hit the weakened side. If he's gonna hit me he's gonna hit armor. I go for the gauss rifle. He's within 60 meters, so that PPC won't do jack here. Twin ML, UAC/5 barrage (when the thing doesn't jam), his armor shreds on the right torso. The Gauss Rifle explodes on him. His internals go to dark orange immediately. His last alpha with the gauss and 4 ER PPCs went into my arm and armored side torso; both went red in armor only. I'm still pumping UAC/5s into it and follow up with a PPC though I've been circling and not backing away (staying this close makes his ER PPCs imprecise and spreads the damage). His arm falls off, his shoulder is gone. My heat's doing so much better now. He's down to two ER PPCs.

But now I have a problem. His good arm is on the same side as my weak torso. There's no getting around this, he's got me pegged. By this time he'd been stripped of armor all along his back and on his center torso, but it's still bright yellow. My CT's become dark orange. We tussel a bit more. Ramming each other even though knockdowns are gone. Targeting each other's weak spots. We still occasionally get shut down but nowhere near as often now. The enemy stalker, now just a walking phallus on legs, attempts to interject by ramming me and getting between me and my enemy in seemingly coordinated attempts to soak up my fire and then hit me when my weapons are recycling.

Ultimately he becomes cherry red. A shot or two would kill him. I've lost my other side torso leaving me with only a medium laser in the center torso. I line up my shot. He lines up his. I fire and cutting into the ibeam s that damn stalker! The stalker dies. As he falls over I'm stuck waiting for the laser to recharge. The Atlas fires two ER PPCs into my center torso. From my perspective it may as well have been to my cockpit.

Defeat.

The enemy Stalker: "OMFG why won't you just die!?!?!?!?!?" came his response over the chat. "Holy ****!"
The Atlas: "You were one pain in the *** to put down."
Koniving: "Good fight."

(Edit: Forgot the U in the first UAC/5 reference.)

Edited by Koniving, 21 April 2017 - 03:29 PM.


#18 Koniving

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 02:10 PM

In truth, the enemy Stalker had a 4 PPC rig while the Atlas had a 4 ER PPC + Gauss rig. This was before the game punished such builds with tremendous amounts of extra heat, and these builds would insta-gib most mechs. There were merits back then too, such as questionable hit detection and host-state-rewind (HSR, lag compensation) was in its infancy and iffy at best which helped to make this possible.

The TL;DR of that story, the enemy Stalker threw his mech in the way of the shot that would have finished off the Atlas and given me the win (as the Stalker would have been helpless to fight me). And in so doing, they won when I so had that victory.

The evolution of my Misery build can be seen in the links below if curious and it is still one that I play today in this exact configuration.

That is: 1 AC/5, 2 PPC, 1 SRM-6, 1 SPL, 2 SL. STD engine.
Sample one
Sample two

Edited by Koniving, 21 April 2017 - 02:20 PM.


#19 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:20 PM

Quote

Once I didn't appreciate the directions I got, which was to "get near" the enemy even after my weapons were all destroyed in order to "help the team" -- I suppose as a damage sponge, spotter or whatever. But I was not in a light mech (it was a Mad IIc) so it was a suicide mission. I mean just out of curiosity do you think it's appropriate to ask a teammate to take a certain death for the team? I had already killed an enemy and done plenty of damage so it's not like I was slacking. It was a very close match so maybe I'm wrong but it seemed like a lot to ask. I died.


As for being a sponge, you are able to get behind an enemy to prevent him from moving backwards, acting as a block. Also, do not face nor show your backside to an opponent but trying to twist your torso to show only your side torsos straight on. Incoming damage that hits the damaged ST will have that damage reduced going in. If it hits where the arms used to be then that damage is reduced even more, as that damage is transfer from the destroyed arm to the destroyed side torso before going to the CT. Do the same for the legs. If you have lost a leg, try to keep that destroyed leg positioned to over the other leg, so leg > ST > CT.

So it is not about simply throwing your mech away, but when being a "sponge", that to help prevent additional damage that is not hitting a teammate who is firing on that target, allowing him to do more damage and possibly destroy the target. And that target is also heating up. And you soaking up several shoots may be the difference between YOUR team winning or losing that drop. Remember, if there are only two of you left and you have no weapons, if your teammate dies you will then also die as you have nothing to fight with. There are exceptions - such as in Conquest and Assault, where depending on the situation, you may be able to win the game by finishing off a cap.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 21 April 2017 - 07:14 PM.


#20 Serpentine Shel Serpentine

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 03:51 PM

Thanks .. I understand a lot better now what I was being asked to do. And the story about the Misery, Atlas etc was excellent, very well written! Next time I'll know how to help.





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