16 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Hello everyone.

I used to play MW:O for a while, was active in game and on the boards in all the heavy mechanical balance discussions and what not. But then I stopped playing (dissatisfied overall with the game's development) , probably around 2013, definitely before Clan Mechs or Faction Warfare became a thing, and I think there wasn't a player ranked match-making back then either.

So, what has all changed? I see Ghost Heat is still there *sigh*, and there is now faction warfare and clan mechs and all that. And I don't recognize the maps, even the ones that I played back then.

Of course I still have the Founder mechs and a bunch of other ones, like Jagermechs, Hunchbacks and Atlai. I played a bit already, and realize that I suck hard (apparently, going by the archieved stats, I wasn't always that bad,but I forgot everything,and some of what I still remember is wrong now. And some I should know better I still do wrong.)

Any good advice on Faction Warfare?
Which faction, which Clan/House to join? It seemed to me that ultimately, going for Mercenary or Solo player isn't a good choice, but it also seems like getting ahead in any meaningful way will take forever.
Am I also right in seeing that switching a faction or house/clan is a bad (time-consuming) idea?

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 24 April 2017 - 06:50 AM.

[The Basilisk]

First of....faction warfare (4.1) isn't exactly a blooming flower on this gnarled dryed out twisted branch of the mechwarrior franchise.
So have a look at it, have a good lough and then go play Quickplay or group quickplay, search some guys and gurls with premium running and go into some lobby matches for fun or play in one of the leagues if you are the competitive type.

What has changed since the Introduction of Clan mechs (nontimeline more after importance/ Impact on the genearal gameplay)

-- Clan Omnimechpacks and weapons Omnimechs are able to change their boddy parts and therefor change their hardpoint layout.
-- Inner Sphere Mech rescale/ scale normalization (Mechs are now scaled for weight/volume) Meaning most IS mechs got absurdly large (save the Catapult wich is actually one of the few direct profiteers.)
-- Clan Battlemechs they function like IS Battemechs just with only Clantech
-- updated Mechlab with two view modes (collumn and spreadsheet) It will warn you if there is ammo missing, risk of ghostheat (yellow symbols) or invalid builds (red symbols).
-- several heatsink/ weapon balancing passes
-- new maps and revamped old maps
-- three new QP game modes: Domination wich is Assault with only one base in the middle, Incursion wich is a more complicated form of Assault and last but not least Escort wich is an assymetric game mode with one side beeing the boddy guards and the other side beeing the Interceptors of a nonfighting, randomly moving NPC Mech with absurd ammounts of armor.
Still does not matter since since just killing the enemy is still the most effective way to get quick effective wins wich will give you more C-bills in the long run.

-- Community warfare aka Faction Warfare aka Fction play.
The momentary FP 4.1 is aught to be Clan versus InnerSphere (actually its more like Clan versus farming mobs) in a Tug of war system that is supposed to be running in phases from a skirmishing to an all out invasion phase on a selected number of planets at the front lines between IS and Clan space.

If you want to know more about this I highly recomend to find a unit that does still drop into FP.
You realy do not want to be one of those PuG victims.

My best advise to you is prtend this would be a new game and you never played it and enjoy the exploration and fiddling everything out. Honestly there isn't realy more to do than building mechs and shooting people.
(No Missions...Backgrounds...Riddles...Minigames...nothing)

Edited by The Basilisk, 24 April 2017 - 06:10 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Thanks for the response!

The "Leagues" is something player-improvised, right, not something actually supported in game, right? Because if it is, it's well hidden in the UI.

Sad to hear that Community/Faction Warfare isn't all that.
Though I did have Scouting Match that I liked.
I would prefer to be able to drive bigger mechs in there too, but I really prefer the 4v4 over 12v12 gameplay.

[Wintersdark]

Welcome back, haven't seen your name around in ages!

They're in mid-do of more direct built in league support, but no there's no direct support yet. Private matches, though, so it's a lot easier to run leagues.

Faction Warfare... Well, it's something. It's not what was described in 2013 by any stretch of the imagination, but it's not that bad either. IMHO, it's a more fun way to play than Quickplay, but only really because I enjoy the dropship setup for battles as it increases the objectives value. Conquest in Faction Play is pretty damn cool. Scouting is a very interesting game mode, and makes for wildly different play than anything else. I'd like to see another similar mode focusing on larger mechs, just to give us Assault pilots a fun 4v4 place, but part of the value of Scouting is that it creates a Safe Space (so to speak) for lighter mechs to shine.

There's a lot of polish, and a massive swaft of bugfixing vs. 2013. The new mechlab is vastly superior, there's in-game VOIP, there's faction wide chat in the front end.

Quirks are a thing, to help balance mechs that are simply inferior. They work well in some cases, poorly in others. Overall, they improve balance vs no quirks by a fairly large margin, but there are still winners and losers in mech balance.

Maps are way better for 12v12 than the old maps, which where - everything else aside - way too small for 12v12 play. I do wish we could go back to 8v8, as I definitely feel gameplay was better there, but what can you do? At least most tournament play focuses on 8v8.

Core gameplay is very similar overall, though there are some new toys such as consumables.

I believe next patch will see in the integration of the new skill tree as well (it was delayed a month or two due to some balance and implementation concerns).

New game modes: Domination (read: King of the Hill), Escort (... with all the joys of MMO escort quests), a re-vamped Assault (which I haven't played so can't comment on), and of course the Faction Play base Invasion game mode. There's also as I alluded to before the quick play game modes in Faction Play, but with the ability to take 4 mechs of a given total tonnage to the battle, to be used as quasi-respawns.

Near future also includes New Tech - new weapons, stealth armor, etc. Recent roadmaps and announcements have all that detailed, and if you look in the PTS archive you can see the direction they're going with the skill trees (or at least prior to the last set of changes).

[SnagaDance]

Welcome back!

I haven't got much to add to what was already said except that you should still recognize Canyon Network, that map is still a good functioning classic.

[The Basilisk]

Ah before its forgotten....there is a big lump of content comming along (soon) planed for july patch.
(timeline progression to civil war era mechs and weapons)

Like Winter said there has been some.... uhm....let's call it...work....on the chat system but there is definetly still no good ingame possibility for community organisation, and searching units.
There is a looking for group tool though...it never worked for me, but it is there, so there you go.

[MustrumRidcully]

SnagaDance, on 25 April 2017 - 02:24 AM, said:

Welcome back!

I haven't got much to add to what was already said except that you should still recognize Canyon Network, that map is still a good functioning classic.

But I am no big fan of Canyon Network. (And it was a relatively new map when I left, so not a classic for me)


EDIT: Maybe I should update my signature... While fun math exercises, I doubt it's still useful to anyone.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 25 April 2017 - 06:34 AM.

[SilentScreamer]

MustrumRidcully, on 24 April 2017 - 03:12 AM, said:

Of course I still have the Founder mechs and a bunch of other ones, like Jagermechs, Hunchbacks and Atlai. I played a bit already, and realize that I suck hard (apparently, going by the archieved stats, I wasn't always that bad,but I forgot everything,and some of what I still remember is wrong now. And some I should know better I still do wrong.)

As others have said, BIG changes coming to Skills and weapons this summer. I would hold off on new mech purchases for a little while especially since you will no longer need 3 mechs to master skills when new skills are released.

On a positive note your existing mechs with viable builds. Look up "meta mechs", but just two suggestions on where to start:
- Atlas DDC built to brawl, with AC20 and 3 SRMwArtemis
- Jager DD with 3ultraAC5

[MustrumRidcully]

SilentScreamer, on 25 April 2017 - 07:27 AM, said:

As others have said, BIG changes coming to Skills and weapons this summer. I would hold off on new mech purchases for a little while especially since you will no longer need 3 mechs to master skills when new skills are released.

On a positive note your existing mechs with viable builds. Look up "meta mechs", but just two suggestions on where to start:
- Atlas DDC built to brawl, with AC20 and 3 SRMwArtemis
- Jager DD with 3ultraAC5

Yes, I already found the metamechs website. The DD with 3 Ultra AC/5 wasn't something I would have normally done (I prefer the Gauss or AC20 builds), but the Atlas is basically how I played it before. I like brawling.

[Odnir]

I also have been gone since 2013. In my past week of play, a very short summary of changes before my lunch break is over:
-Clans. Clans clans clans. This is a long list of changes all at once.
-Combat usually occurs at much longer ranges than before.
-Several new gametypes. A pure skirmish mode. Domination (sort of a king-of-the-hill type. Remain within a designated map area and keep enemies out to bring a countdown to zero). Incursion (attack/defend bases).
-ECM radius dramatically shrunk
-Perks everywhere, pay attention to them

[JigglyMoobs]

MustrumRidcully, on 24 April 2017 - 03:12 AM, said:

Hello everyone.

I used to play MW:O for a while, was active in game and on the boards in all the heavy mechanical balance discussions and what not. But then I stopped playing (dissatisfied overall with the game's development) , probably around 2013, definitely before Clan Mechs or Faction Warfare became a thing, and I think there wasn't a player ranked match-making back then either.

So, what has all changed? I see Ghost Heat is still there *sigh*, and there is now faction warfare and clan mechs and all that. And I don't recognize the maps, even the ones that I played back then.

Of course I still have the Founder mechs and a bunch of other ones, like Jagermechs, Hunchbacks and Atlai. I played a bit already, and realize that I suck hard (apparently, going by the archieved stats, I wasn't always that bad,but I forgot everything,and some of what I still remember is wrong now. And some I should know better I still do wrong.)

Any good advice on Faction Warfare?
Which faction, which Clan/House to join? It seemed to me that ultimately, going for Mercenary or Solo player isn't a good choice, but it also seems like getting ahead in any meaningful way will take forever.
Am I also right in seeing that switching a faction or house/clan is a bad (time-consuming) idea?

The biggest thing you'll probably feel are the crappy nerfs to movement and jump jets.

They have done a better job with balancing viability of different builds.

Lights were rescaled, to their detriment. The only real light light now is the Lolcust, which is actually good now.

Alpha damage has gone wayyyy up. In general there's a lot more firepower around so you have to play more carefully.

Of the new game modes: assault is lame, escort terrible, incursion actually good and interesting.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 25 April 2017 - 11:08 AM.

[Wintersdark]

The new Skill Tree PTS is up, you may want to peek: https://mwomercs.com...41#entry5709341

[MustrumRidcully]

Wintersdark, on 25 April 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

The new Skill Tree PTS is up, you may want to peek: https://mwomercs.com...41#entry5709341

I dunno, that seems like quite an unwieldly system. Now you have for every mech several trees that you need to manage...

I kinda get the game design appeal of making it a complex tree with unlock nodes and what not. But I think there needs to be some complexity removed. Either no complex unlock structure, allowing you to fold in the separate versions of the tree into a single node that you can take multiple times, or by removing the strict mech dependency...

[Rogue Jedi]

MustrumRidcully, on 25 April 2017 - 12:49 PM, said:

I dunno, that seems like quite an unwieldly system. Now you have for every mech several trees that you need to manage...

I kinda get the game design appeal of making it a complex tree with unlock nodes and what not. But I think there needs to be some complexity removed. Either no complex unlock structure, allowing you to fold in the separate versions of the tree into a single node that you can take multiple times, or by removing the strict mech dependency...

please understand the skill tree revamp is a long awated feature, one of the primary requirements for it was to give some choice in what to unlock, with the current system you have no choice about which skills to take, this gives us that choice.

you will no longer have to level up multiple varients to get the skill tree fully unlocked, you can have multiples of a single varient with diferant skills unlocked.

as for the complaint that there are several trees to manage, they just seporated the diferant types of skills, you could totaly ignore several of the trees and e.g. max out firepower if you wanted to, but this extra level of complexity is highly appealing to me, if you do not like it then I am sorry but would you seriously prefer to not have choice about what to unlock?

I am happy that you can choose to take a few levels of many skills or fully unlock a few and while I would prefer a series of linier branches I can understand why they did it the way they did

[MustrumRidcully]

I am just giving my first impression. I will check it out the next days.
I like the idea of having choices, too, but that doesn't have to mean it needs to be as complex as it looks here.

This is not a suggestion on how it *should* be by any means, but to give you an example of having choices but keeping the complexity in check:
Take the current mech tree, and give every skill three stages to pick. And you can unlock only so many skill points for this tree that you could only max out half of them. This would give a meaningful choices, too, but it would be relatively simple.

[Rogue Jedi]

MustrumRidcully, on 26 April 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

I am just giving my first impression. I will check it out the next days.
I like the idea of having choices, too, but that doesn't have to mean it needs to be as complex as it looks here.

This is not a suggestion on how it *should* be by any means, but to give you an example of having choices but keeping the complexity in check:
Take the current mech tree, and give every skill three stages to pick. And you can unlock only so many skill points for this tree that you could only max out half of them. This would give a meaningful choices, too, but it would be relatively simple.

I do understand your viewpoint, but PGI nave made skills for many things which did not used to have them, e.g. to get full ECM funtionality you have to spend skill points on them now, forcing you to specilise more if you want full functionality, hopefully this is a push towards full role warfare where roles like ECM and spotter have true meaning rather than just meaning you sacrifice your damage (and therefore score and earnings) potential to offer other things.
Many vocal people seem to hate this idea but I am firmly in favor of the idea that Mechs get recorgnised for performing non damage dealing roles to make the less combat capable Mechs more viable

The new tree is not just replacing the old Mech skill tree but also the old Mech and weapon modules, there were something like 20 Mech modules + 2 weapon modules for each weapon, and all weapon modules had 5 levels to unlock, so that was potentialy about 300 unlocks with the old modules

[Wintersdark]

MustrumRidcully, on 26 April 2017 - 03:08 AM, said:

I am just giving my first impression. I will check it out the next days.
I like the idea of having choices, too, but that doesn't have to mean it needs to be as complex as it looks here.

This is not a suggestion on how it *should* be by any means, but to give you an example of having choices but keeping the complexity in check:
Take the current mech tree, and give every skill three stages to pick. And you can unlock only so many skill points for this tree that you could only max out half of them. This would give a meaningful choices, too, but it would be relatively simple.

it is - or at least looks - needlessly complicated and intimidating. I'd like to see literally half as many skills, half as many skill points, and each skill having twice the effect. Same choices, same impact, but much more manageable and less overwhelming skill trees.