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We Need To Stop Asking For The Pirahna.


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#1 stealthraccoon

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:37 PM

Look, I need to keep bringing this up: we all realize just how absolutely and absurdly broken the Pirahna would be, I mean, right out of the gate, right? I mean just look at what we're asking for.

Just think about how you could tweak and modify your loadouts; we're honestly talking about FIFTEEN (15!) energy weapons cruising around at 150 kph!? Start swapping out omnipods and whatever clammy behaviors, and you have a half dozen ballistic and 9 lasers or some gawd awful butt chewing monster? One can only hope for locked single heat sinks!

Let's just stick with the gimpy Howler, do some magical but modest PGI variants for utility and call it good - our behinds will thank us.

Edited by stealthraccoon, 24 April 2017 - 09:39 PM.


#2 Requiemking

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 09:56 PM

I'm not sure if your being sarcastic or not. In case you're not, I need to explain a few things.

Firstly, the Piranha(Or Trollfish, as I personally refer to it as), is a Battlemech, meaning no Omniswapping. Secondly, the Piranha is a walking road sign with used tinfoil for armor and plastic coathangers for structure. A pair of CLB20X ACs fired casually in it's direction will cripple the thing. Thirdly, both variants of the Piranha will have to make major sacrifices in order to sustain their abilities, most likely by removing their larger energy weapons for more ammo/heatsinks, thus reducing their overall capabilities.

#3 razenWing

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:04 PM

the mech also doesn't make sense though.

How can it carry 12 machine guns? isn't that 3 tons + at least 1/2 ton for ammo... + structure + engine (which needs to be at least locust size)... the math doesn't add up.

(o yea, you need the require 10 heatsinks as well)

(and it supposed to have 2 medium laser + 1 small? that's another 2.5 tons)

Does it carry no armor? And even then, the tonnage math still doesn't work out.

----------------

Edit, fixed some values

------------------

final calculation:
Engine (assuming 190 XL like the locust) = 6 tons
heat sink (require 10) = 3 tons
both endo and ferro = 1 ton structure

so thats... 10 right there.

Weapon
MG = 4 tons + 1/2 ton ammo = 4.5
2 ERML = 2 tons
SML = 1/2 ton

= total 7 tons.

hum,... ok, I take it back... so I guess it kinda work with 3 tons of armor... leaving it about 80% as armored as a locust...

which, come to think of it... might not be so bad....

Edited by razenWing, 24 April 2017 - 10:11 PM.


#4 Requiemking

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:17 PM

View PostrazenWing, on 24 April 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

the mech also doesn't make sense though.

How can it carry 12 machine guns? isn't that 3 tons + at least 1/2 ton for ammo... + structure + engine (which needs to be at least locust size)... the math doesn't add up.

(o yea, you need the require 10 heatsinks as well)

(and it supposed to have 2 medium laser + 1 small? that's another 2.5 tons)

Does it carry no armor? And even then, the tonnage math still doesn't work out.

----------------

Edit, fixed some values

------------------

final calculation:
Engine (assuming 190 XL like the locust) = 6 tons
heat sink (require 10) = 3 tons
both endo and ferro = 1 ton structure

so thats... 10 right there.

Weapon
MG = 4 tons + 1/2 ton ammo = 4.5
2 ERML = 2 tons
SML = 1/2 ton

= total 7 tons.

hum,... ok, I take it back... so I guess it kinda work with 3 tons of armor... leaving it about 80% as armored as a locust...

which, come to think of it... might not be so bad....

Well, the Trollfish uses Endosteel, a 180 XL, 4 tons of armor, 2 ERMLs, 1 ERSL, and 12 MGs. I concepted a rough approximation in Smurfy, and it came up as having 1 ton of ammo to feed the guns, since an 180 XL is 5.5 tons. So, while it is legal, it's not optimal and is certainly not a good mech.

Edited by Requiemking, 24 April 2017 - 10:17 PM.


#5 Juodas Varnas

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:18 PM

I know right?
We should be asking for the Scorpion instead!


#6 TheArisen

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:18 PM

Well the Clans have wanted a 20 tonner for quite some time and the only other options are the Fire moth & Howler. The FMoth still has speed issues and the Howler... Would be less than ideal.

Yes the Piranha would need to use less weapons than it has HPs but even so it's the only real choice for a Clan 20 tonner.

#7 Requiemking

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:23 PM

View PostTheArisen, on 24 April 2017 - 10:18 PM, said:

Well the Clans have wanted a 20 tonner for quite some time and the only other options are the Fire moth & Howler. The FMoth still has speed issues and the Howler... Would be less than ideal.

Yes the Piranha would need to use less weapons than it has HPs but even so it's the only real choice for a Clan 20 tonner.

Why would the Howler be less than ideal? It's squat, has decent hardpoints for what it needs to do, and the 3 would be a fairly useful PPC sniper. As I stated earlier, the Piranha is a walking roadsign with non-existent structure and armor.

#8 Wintersdark

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:23 PM

12MG=3T
3xERSL=1.5T

4.5T weapons. Prolly lose 2xMG for 4T weaponry total. 180XL for 5.5t, 3.5t ammo... Seems reasonable and a heck of a lot of fun to me.

Thing is, those MG's are monsters for do output. I'd be tempted to get the other way, bring all 12 and drop an ERSL.

#9 Curccu

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:23 PM

View PostrazenWing, on 24 April 2017 - 10:04 PM, said:

Spoiler


20 ton mech
100% armor, 10 HS with endo & ferro --> 6,43 tons free space --> lets shave 2-3 points from head to get nice even 6,5
12xMG + 2xERML + ERSL 5,5 tons --> 1 ton of MG ammo = total 20 tons

Edit: with XL190

Edited by Curccu, 24 April 2017 - 11:41 PM.


#10 TheArisen

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:23 PM

View PostRequiemking, on 24 April 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

Well, the Trollfish uses Endosteel, a 180 XL, 4 tons of armor, 2 ERMLs, 1 ERSL, and 12 MGs. I concepted a rough approximation in Smurfy, and it came up as having 1 ton of ammo to feed the guns, since an 180 XL is 5.5 tons. So, while it is legal, it's not optimal and is certainly not a good mech.


Any build focusing on the MGs would dump the lasers & strip the arms as all of it's MG's are torso mounted (epic convergence). I'd also point out that one could also use less than the maximum number of MGs.

#11 Requiemking

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:25 PM

View PostTheArisen, on 24 April 2017 - 10:23 PM, said:

Any build focusing on the MGs would dump the lasers & strip the arms as all of it's MG's are torso mounted (epic convergence). I'd also point out that one could also use less than the maximum number of MGs.

And? Still doesn't help the fact that it's sole claim to fame is that it can boat 12 of the shortest range, most ammo hungry weapons in game. I'd much rather bring something like the Red Shift or the Firebee than that walking roadsign.

#12 TheArisen

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:26 PM

View PostRequiemking, on 24 April 2017 - 10:23 PM, said:

Why would the Howler be less than ideal? It's squat, has decent hardpoints for what it needs to do, and the 3 would be a fairly useful PPC sniper. As I stated earlier, the Piranha is a walking roadsign with non-existent structure and armor.


I think you're mixing up mechs. The Howler is the one with severe barn door syndrome. The Piranha actually has bigger arms and mostly torso mounted weapons.

#13 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:27 PM

View Poststealthraccoon, on 24 April 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Look, I need to keep bringing this up: we all realize just how absolutely and absurdly broken the Pirahna would be, I mean, right out of the gate, right? I mean just look at what we're asking for.

Just think about how you could tweak and modify your loadouts; we're honestly talking about FIFTEEN (15!) energy weapons cruising around at 150 kph!? Start swapping out omnipods and whatever clammy behaviors, and you have a half dozen ballistic and 9 lasers or some gawd awful butt chewing monster? One can only hope for locked single heat sinks!

Let's just stick with the gimpy Howler, do some magical but modest PGI variants for utility and call it good - our behinds will thank us.

The MG version can't remotely carry enough ammo to matter in MWO.
The energy version? Can't pack enough heatsinks to matter.

Try again?

#14 Wintersdark

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:28 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 24 April 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

The MG version can't remotely carry enough ammo to matter in MWO.
The energy version? Can't pack enough heatsinks to matter.

Try again?
indeed.

It does look FUN though, something hilarious and different. That's all the reason I need to buy one.

#15 TheArisen

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:29 PM

View PostRequiemking, on 24 April 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

And? Still doesn't help the fact that it's sole claim to fame is that it can boat 12 of the shortest range, most ammo hungry weapons in game. I'd much rather bring something like the Red Shift or the Firebee than that walking roadsign.


It has an energy boat variant BTW. Also because it's 20t & has relatively big arms it'd be pretty small.

#16 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:31 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 24 April 2017 - 10:28 PM, said:

indeed.

It does look FUN though, something hilarious and different. That's all the reason I need to buy one.

I'm OK with it coming in. I'm simply pointing out why I don't think we have much worries about our new 20 ton overlord.

#17 TheArisen

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:32 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 24 April 2017 - 10:27 PM, said:

The MG version can't remotely carry enough ammo to matter in MWO.
The energy version? Can't pack enough heatsinks to matter.

Try again?


Just equip a more reasonable number of MGs/Energy. It still has Clan tech, it'd be at least as good as the Locust.

#18 Curccu

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:33 PM

Might be reasonable to swap those ERML+ERSL to micro lazors to get more ammo.

#19 Requiemking

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:33 PM

View PostTheArisen, on 24 April 2017 - 10:26 PM, said:

I think you're mixing up mechs. The Howler is the one with severe barn door syndrome. The Piranha actually has bigger arms and mostly torso mounted weapons.

The Howler, even without it's Catapult ear, is, volume-wise, much larger than the Piranha, thus meaning that it would be smaller in-game. Also, the Howler has nothing but torso-mounted weaponry, and the 3's PPC mount is nowhere near as obnoxious as the other variant's missileboxes.

#20 Khobai

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:46 PM

Quote

Firstly, the Piranha(Or Trollfish, as I personally refer to it as), is a Battlemech, meaning no Omniswapping.


battlemech > omnimech





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