36 replies to this topic

[Monkey Lover]

G4LV4TR0N, on 25 April 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

Take a look at Clan mobility quirks and mechs that are affected most - Mist Lynx, Kit Fox, Adder, Mad Dog, Linebacker, Summoner, Gargoyle, Highlander IIC, Executioner. Are those considered top performers?

https://static.mwome...Final%20PTS.pdf

these quirks are still there they just moved them. Its the firepower quirks getting nerfed.

For example highlander 45% quirk Acceleration is 20.02 now.
Same weight with old 10% quirk supernova is 10.79 now.


In this example highlander didnt take any weapons nerfs so its going to be better off.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 25 April 2017 - 10:56 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

It seems to me that onr way to turn the mech skill tree into something that can compensate for removed quirks would be to give mechs that had quirks before can have more skill points active then mechs that didn't.

Alternatively, the previously quirked mechs could get higher bonuses from certain skills.

But removing them and having to rebuy them won't help the original goal of quirks, to balance weaker mechs. They have to pay with the same resource and the same limits as everyone else, so whoever was strong without quirks before is coming out ahead.

[SmokedJag]

Monkey Lover, on 25 April 2017 - 10:54 PM, said:

these quirks are still there they just moved them. Its the firepower quirks getting nerfed.

For example highlander 45% quirk Acceleration is 20.02 now.
Same weight with old 10% quirk supernova is 10.79 now.


In this example highlander didnt take any weapons nerfs so its going to be better off.

I swear, people can't read or test this stuff themselves. Bunch of worthless telephone where someone who didn't read posts wrong information and everyone gets all mad without even checking.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Monkey Lover, on 25 April 2017 - 10:54 PM, said:

these quirks are still there they just moved them. Its the firepower quirks getting nerfed.

Depends on the mech, not all mechs have their agility exactly the same, and that includes the Locust and Linebacker which both suffered nerfs to their agility in some areas. Which is part of the reason the whole "top performers got nerfed agility and that will balance things out" because a lot of mechs got their agility nerfed.

[G4LV4TR0N]

SmokedJag, on 26 April 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

I swear, people can't read or test this stuff themselves. Bunch of worthless telephone where someone who didn't read posts wrong information and everyone gets all mad without even checking.

Seems you're talking about yourself because I have provided link.

[Monkey Lover]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 26 April 2017 - 07:40 AM, said:

Depends on the mech, not all mechs have their agility exactly the same, and that includes the Locust and Linebacker which both suffered nerfs to their agility in some areas. Which is part of the reason the whole "top performers got nerfed agility and that will balance things out" because a lot of mechs got their agility nerfed.

This has more to do with the engine decouple than the skill tree right? Or are the vaules really off? Im having trouble finding the numbers to compare them.

Fast mechs such as the locust and linebacker are getting hit harder than the dire and urbie. Testing my dire out in the pts i can say its much better than before. At the same time the kdk feels more like an atlas now.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 26 April 2017 - 08:58 AM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Monkey Lover, on 26 April 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

This has more to do with the engine decouple than the skill tree right?

Somewhat, in so much as that they are setting this ridiculous baseline.

[Jikil]

I kind of wonder if they are reducing quirks in preparation for the new tech being added.

Certainly the existing quirks were added with current weapon systems in mind. But will having new tech destroy that balance?

I think its especially egregious on mechs with insane weapon quirks like the hunchback 4SP. Will it be balanced when it can mount MRM30s?

It might just be prudent to not have any kind of firepower skills since that represents a direct increase for mechs that don't need it like the kodiak 3 or the nightgyr. But even then the bonuses are pretty small for the amount of points you put into it. Really the best thing you can get is magazine capacity.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Jikil, on 26 April 2017 - 09:33 AM, said:

I kind of wonder if they are reducing quirks in preparation for the new tech being added.

Which would be stupid, making changes for something that is at least 2 months/patches away is absurd unless it is completely passive (in other words it wouldn't be noticed or impact current play).

[Dee Eight]

ForceUser, on 25 April 2017 - 06:53 PM, said:

Probably because we're getting new tech in a couple of months.

Exactly...and that's going to require new data to see where to tune mechs in the future...and you cannot do that properly with heavily offensively quirked mechs. I wonder though for example... the dragon 5N...thus far they've left its UAC jam quirk of 40% alone in the PTS which is fine because you can only fit a single UAC/5 into its gun arm... but we'll have UAC/2s in june, which are smaller so you'll be able to fit 2 of them, or one UAC/2 and one UAC/5 together.

[Big MO]

Yeah, I just don't understand removing the offensive quirks from all of the underperforming mechs that needed them in the first place. Does anyone seriously think that leaving the quirks on mechs like the Vindicator, combined with the skill tree enhancements, would turn them into the terrors of the battlefield?
Ahh, I can see it now, Timberwolves hiding when a Vindicator or Hunchback is spotted. Lances of KDK-3 pilots screaming over their teamspeak about the OP Victors and Dragons assaulting the base. Seriously, let's get real.

[Y E O N N E]

I enjoy having my Mist Lynx nerfed. Truly, it was over-performing by such a huge margin and really needed to be reigned in. Now my missiles will hit five components per volley instead of four. This is a great day!

More seriously, Chris Lowery, using 'Mech and item popularity (as stated by you in so many words during your interview) to gauge whether or not something needs changed is inappropriate and your internal performance targets are off. PGI's metrics have been off for years, and your input has yielded similar, maldeveloped fruit. This is neither opinion nor speculation, and I really do appreciate you guys running away from the question when the most qualified players attempted to call you on it. Where's that Town Hall you promised to explain your grand vision for balance?

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 26 April 2017 - 05:28 PM.

[FireStoat]

I play Clan. I have Inner Sphere mechs and I don't play them. I probably will when the Tech Advancement happens.
I do own several MAD IIC's and the skill tree is pretty good for them. Like, really good. Engine decoupling is a bummer but I see why it's necessary. Overall, I'm looking forward to the tree hitting and what it's offering me.

If I played Inner Sphere and I was a Centurion pilot, I think I'd be mad as hell and that's just one mech example. No one calls that mech overpowered but folks do take it seriously, either to pilot one or face against one in the field. And its weapon quirks are getting absurdly gutted with only a partial return with a large investment in the weapon tree which reduces choices elsewhere to recover base bonuses that we see now on the current live build of the game if it is Mastered.

PGI - when an Inner Sphere mech has sharply limited hardpoint choices, those quirks were assigned to the mechs for a reason to keep them competitive. Please rethink the situation and logic used to remedy the situation previously and then consider what this quirk removal will accomplish.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Monkey Lover, on 25 April 2017 - 10:54 PM, said:

these quirks are still there they just moved them. Its the firepower quirks getting nerfed.

For example highlander 45% quirk Acceleration is 20.02 now.
Same weight with old 10% quirk supernova is 10.79 now.


In this example highlander didnt take any weapons nerfs so its going to be better off.

25% acceleration nerf you take as being "better off"?

[GoatHILL]

Seems like an across the board nerf to all but a hand full of IS mechs. Most of the heaviest quirks mechs needed help even before the clans came along. Armour does not make up for firepower.

[50 50]

Pariah Devalis, on 25 April 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

In order to get the same 15% ER laser duration quirks as in live for the SNV-1, it requires 100% in the laser weapon tree. Without these quirks, it really has nothing to set itself apart from any of the other, often superior, assault mech options in the game. The near elimination of its quirks forces it to compete directly against mechs with superior hardpoints, superior geometry, and superior mobility. In other words, it has no way to actually compete with them.

The SNV-1 is just a single example. There are several others.

That's not correct though.
At the moment the SNV-1 only has the 15% ER laser duration quirk.
If you invest 25 points strictly into the laser nodes in the tree you get Cooldown, heat reduction, range and the laser duration for all lasers.
What's wrong with that?

[East Indy]

ForceUser, on 25 April 2017 - 06:53 PM, said:

Probably because we're getting new tech in a couple of months.

Except not, because the problem with a game based and monetized on collectibles is intra-faction, where tech makes no difference.