19 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Please put 'Target Info Gathering' in Miscellaneous or move it into non-mandatory branches of the Sensor tree. Seriously, I don't think anyone ever mounted this in a module slot, most players never even press the R key when I am watching them. BAP works almost as well as 'Target Info Gathering'. It sounds nice in concept, but it's battle value is negligible. No player should be forced to waste a node on it.

I think the Skill Trees are too heavily weighted to "Node-Waste" for no reason usually. You know no one ever used 'Target Info Gathering' because you placed it at the top and Radar Deprivation and Target Retention at the bottom of the sensor tree, which both have great value. But you can't make every skill tree a Node-Waste sinkhole with only 91 Nodes possible.

[Y E O N N E]

I mount it all the time. It is extremely useful for quick target assessment. Need to know if that guy has streaks? TIG. Need to minimize engagement time? TIG. Want to be able to quickly relay target status for the team? TIG.

It is actually one of the more used modules, third behind Radar Deprivation and Seismic, about tied with Advanced Zoom.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 April 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

It is actually one of the more used modules, third behind Radar Deprivation and Seismic, about tied with Advanced Zoom.

^This

Anything mechs designed for push strategies generally mount it because radar derp doesn't really help you in those situations (chances are they have scouted you and you generally don't if they know where you at once they do know you are pushing) where as knowing where a critical component is can be very useful. Radar derp is really best used by lights without ECM (and only in for tradey matches) and some long range poke mechs and that's about it.

Honestly I'd say Seismic is the most used and then you have TIG and Radar Derp tied for 2nd, followed by Adv Zoom, Sensor Range, and potentially Cap Accel (very useful on conquest for maps like Polar).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 April 2017 - 11:18 AM.

[Lightfoot]

I never mount 'Target Info Gathering' and I always know what my target is carrying and where it is weak. That's because the first thing I do is hit R and as soon as the scan comes up I know, usually long before I engage. And if a mech pops up from nowhere I hit R and I know in a few seconds. When they pop up it's usually too late for 'Target Info Gathering' to give you tactical help like weapon ranges/ loadout, you are already in range. Use the R key faster if you think you need 'Target Info Gathering', you won't need it.

Anyway, 'Target Info Gathering' would not be on the top of my get first list, but in the new system, I am forced to waste very limited Nodes on it. If that is the whole idea for the new Skill Tree, waste nodes on stuff you never needed, I would say re-think what you are saying about RP.

I mean sure, most games have trees that force some things you just take to get to what you actually need, but not every time, every branch. I guess the skill is to take as little junk as possible, but when every tree is built like this you find you only use 3-4 skill trees because the rest would get you only the stuff no one ever takes at the top.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2017 - 12:11 PM, said:

And if a mech pops up from nowhere I hit R and I know in a few seconds.

The enemies aren't always spuds that expose themselves long enough for you to get that information......

Cool, you don't like it, but some of us in the comp side of things actually do.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 28 April 2017 - 12:30 PM.

[Lightfoot]

I am glad you get easy access to 'Target Info Gathering', but you notice that Radar Deprivation, which I hear is also good in comp, is at the bottom.

Edited by Lightfoot, 28 April 2017 - 12:58 PM.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Bottom line: How about if TIG and everything else was optional instead of mandatory (if you want the stuff underneath it)? I always thought that having freedom of choice was supposed to be a good thing. Was I mistaken? Was forcing yourselves and your will upon others truly the best way to go?

P.S. I have never mounted that thing (TIG) in my life and never plan to (if I actually have a choice in the matter, that is).

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

I am glad you get easy access to 'Target Info Gathering', but you notice that Radar Deprivation, which I hear is also good in comp, is at the bottom.

I don't really care about it's placement because I dislike the skill tree to begin with, the only thing I disagree is how useful you consider TIG is.

[testhero]

Never mounted it! BAP and/or TAG make it unnecessary
With the target Info gathering times being increased dramatically especially for heavies and assaults (why?) it might become use full.
looks like I have to take two of this under-performer to get the Target decay I want. The only good thing is that most of my targets would have to spend an improbable amount of points in this tree to get the Radar deprivation that would save them.

Update

Target Info Gathering


All 'Mechs possess inherent values for determining their Target Info Gathering capabilities at short, medium, and long range.

This PTS sees the following changes to those inherent Target Info Gathering values:


• Base Short Range Target Info Gathering time increased to 2s (from 1s).

• Base Medium Range Target Info Gathering time increased to 4.5s (from 3s).

• Base Long Range Target Info Gathering time increased to 7s (from 5s).

• Target Info Gathering time can be reduced through Skill Tree advancement.


If that holds true when it drops some Information gathering will become a lot more desirable.

Edited by testhero, 30 April 2017 - 06:23 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

I am glad you get easy access to 'Target Info Gathering', but you notice that Radar Deprivation, which I hear is also good in comp, is at the bottom.

Kind of irrelevant if you want both. Honestly, it's a small expenditure to get down to 60% Radar Deprivation and +100 Seismic. Since the firepower nodes are so weak unless you go whole hog on a type, I have no issue sacrificing specification in there to get those sensor boosts. Getting to 100% Radar Deprivation and +200 Seismic is niche.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Yeonne Greene, on 28 April 2017 - 05:52 PM, said:

Kind of irrelevant if you want both. Honestly, it's a small expenditure to get down to 60% Radar Deprivation and +100 Seismic. Since the firepower nodes are so weak unless you go whole hog on a type, I have no issue sacrificing specification in there to get those sensor boosts. Getting to 100% Radar Deprivation and +200 Seismic is niche.

If you want both. What about those of us that are forced to select it to get what we really want? I noticed that you skipped my last post that deals directly with this very issue, btw.

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 29 April 2017 - 08:40 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Jep Jorgensson, on 29 April 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

If you want both. What about those of us that are forced to select it to get what we really want? I noticed that you skipped my last post that deals directly with this very issue, btw.

Then you get to pay whatever the node cost is for what you want including the filler, but without actually receiving the benefits of the filler since PGI has deigned that the former should cost that much to get to that point.

You don't get free nodes back to spend elsewhere, that's not the point.

And yes, you were mistaken.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Yeonne Greene, on 29 April 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Then you get to pay whatever the node cost is for what you want including the filler, but without actually receiving the benefits of the filler since PGI has deigned that the former should cost that much to get to that point.

You don't get free nodes back to spend elsewhere, that's not the point.

And yes, you were mistaken.

So forcing yourselves and your will upon others truly the best way to go then. Understood, pro-slaver.

[Y E O N N E]

Jep Jorgensson, on 29 April 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

So forcing yourselves and your will upon others truly the best way to go then. Understood, pro-slaver.

TIL some examples of **** sapiens can survive without a brain. That's a neat trick.

As far as choice goes, it is the presence of too much choice that causes many forms of imbalance. Why take the 'Mech with inferior geometry and such when I can take this other one that can otherwise possess the same build? I should not be allowed to spec any 'Mech any way I choose, especially when what I am giving up is so unimportant to the game that it may as well not exist at all.

[Jep Jorgensson]

You said it.

So you really are in favor of not giving people the freedom to choose for themselves, huh? Then how about if PGI takes away our ability to choose which factions we join and instead assigns us our factions? Not having a choice means you do not have to hurt your head with pointless thinking after all. Hmm... I guess you were right about one thing though:

"TIL some examples of **** sapiens can survive without a brain. That's a neat trick."

You must be really talented then to pull off that trick. I both admire and pity you.

I still agree with the OP. Freedom of choice should prevail, not the tyranny of the few who believe that they know what we should have better than we do ourselves.

Edited by Jep Jorgensson, 29 April 2017 - 07:53 PM.

[l33tworks]

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

Please put 'Target Info Gathering' in Miscellaneous or move it into non-mandatory branches of the Sensor tree. Seriously, I don't think anyone ever mounted this in a module slot, most players never even press the R key when I am watching them. BAP works almost as well as 'Target Info Gathering'.

Yeonne Greene, on 28 April 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I mount it all the time. It is extremely useful for quick target assessment. Need to know if that guy has streaks? TIG. Need to minimize engagement time? TIG. Want to be able to quickly relay target status for the team? TIG.

It is actually one of the more used modules, third behind Radar Deprivation and Seismic, about tied with Advanced Zoom.

Wow what a strange turn of events! Two completely opposing views on whether a node is worth taking or not!

If only there was a way where the player could decide whether a skill was worth the cost or not at their discretion to suit their playstyle...Some kind of mystical system where it was possible to select what skills you want. Well I guess we can only dream..

[Katastrophy Kid]

Lightfoot, on 28 April 2017 - 10:04 AM, said:

Please put 'Target Info Gathering' in Miscellaneous or move it into non-mandatory branches of the Sensor tree. Seriously, I don't think anyone ever mounted this in a module slot, most players never even press the R key when I am watching them. BAP works almost as well as 'Target Info Gathering'. It sounds nice in concept, but it's battle value is negligible. No player should be forced to waste a node on it.

I think the Skill Trees are too heavily weighted to "Node-Waste" for no reason usually. You know no one ever used 'Target Info Gathering' because you placed it at the top and Radar Deprivation and Target Retention at the bottom of the sensor tree, which both have great value. But you can't make every skill tree a Node-Waste sinkhole with only 91 Nodes possible.

I don't agree that its pointless, I equip it on many of my mechs because I pay attention to weak spots and try to exploit them.

Yeonne Greene, on 28 April 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

I mount it all the time. It is extremely useful for quick target assessment. Need to know if that guy has streaks? TIG. Need to minimize engagement time? TIG. Want to be able to quickly relay target status for the team? TIG.

It is actually one of the more used modules, third behind Radar Deprivation and Seismic, about tied with Advanced Zoom.

This, all of this, too.

Edited by Katastrophe Kid, 01 May 2017 - 04:22 PM.

[ForceUser]

TIG is *really* useful on scalpel mechs. Short to mid range, pin point laser pokers. Every second makes a difference as to whether you are able to identify on open component, get the kill and duck back behind cover (or remove the source of damage in a brawl) before taking a 50pt alpha to the face. It's a higher skill level thing so not everyone will agree on it's usefulness.

Edited by ForceUser, 01 May 2017 - 05:07 PM.

[the sixth tier]

aw hell somebody call antifa. how dare you force us to not get exactly what we want on a per-individual basis, pgi?

[VonBruinwald]

Jep Jorgensson, on 29 April 2017 - 12:17 PM, said:

So forcing yourselves and your will upon others truly the best way to go then. Understood, pro-slaver.

You do realise you're a clanner....