16 replies to this topic

[krimshaw]

Some of my mechs, almost all will be severely set back by this system.
As an example I have a kitfox with the first row all unlocked and when I tried it on the new system I got 3 skills unlocked.

Before: After
cool run 7.5 reinforced casing 1
kinetic Burst 7.5 kinetic burst 5
twist x 2.5 Rang 1 1.5
heat containment 10
hard brake 7.5
twist speed 2.5
Arm reflex 2.5


After exploring the system all I can see is a new way to get people to buy MC to convert xp to general xp to increase mech capabilities to what they were before the new system.

It also seems to cater to power players as well, I'm a frequent player and most of my mechs will be under performing when the new skill tree goes live.
Having played online games for 20 plus years I have seen attempts at making a more "in depth" systems kill a game, it's time you should listen to the players and put aside your we know best attitude before you kill this game and give players what they want. New maps, new play styles, and new mechs.

Edited by krimshaw, 28 April 2017 - 11:19 AM.

[Nightmare1]

The problem is that you're trying to re-acquire your previous functionality. However, that's not the purpose of this Skill Tree. It's to make you sacrifice in some areas in order to gain benefits in others. If you can't realize that, then you will only be disappointed.

[krimshaw]

No I'm pretty sure it's to generate a cash via MC spending to get the required SP by converting XP....
Seriously who takes a game and says, "wait a sec, this seems to be too fun, lets make it more aggravating, complicated and more of a grind, but well add the option of giving them an easy way out through MC"
Think about the nightmare this will be for new players when they come to realize they are gonna get stomped for months until they can get enough xp to come some what close to being competitive.
Sometimes simple is good, and I see a lot of negative feedback in the forums, Devs and corporate peeps that insist on change because it's what they want generally have negative effects, just ask Sony, or daybreak, or just about every other company that shuttered online games, the all have the same thing in common.

Nice video btw.

[Meihru]

If its purpose is to generate mc for conversion xp, why do I get spammed with 46000 GSP then instead of the originally planned cbill refund most players want?

[Naduk]

im curious how you see this as a push for people to buy MC

if your mech had any experience on it, it gets the equivalent in return
a mech can only have 91 nodes applied to it
any mastered mech before the tree goes live gets 91 points to apply for free

while you cannot perhaps match the stats you had pre-update for some mechs
you can still play it however you wish and in most cases better than you could before for that specific style

the drop from previous stats is global
so while you currently feel that its a nerf to specific units you like, you will see that overall its not that big a deal as everything else got with the same stick

[Nightmare1]

krimshaw, on 28 April 2017 - 11:42 PM, said:

Think about the nightmare...

Naduk, on 29 April 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

im curious how you see this as a push for people to buy MC

if your mech had any experience on it, it gets the equivalent in return
a mech can only have 91 nodes applied to it
any mastered mech before the tree goes live gets 91 points to apply for free

while you cannot perhaps match the stats you had pre-update for some mechs
you can still play it however you wish and in most cases better than you could before for that specific style

the drop from previous stats is global
so while you currently feel that its a nerf to specific units you like, you will see that overall its not that big a deal as everything else got with the same stick

This. I actually prefer the GSP since I own so many Mechs and like to change loadouts on them occasionally. I would rather get the extra GSP so that I can buy extra nodes, above and beyond the 91 I'm refunded based on Mastery, so that I can have more options without having to grind away at all that nonsense.

Plus, it means that I can level my new Mechs instantly without having to grind away at them. I'm at the point where I don't have the time to grind, and just want to grab and go, if you know what I mean.

This latest refund is perfect, in my book.

[oldradagast]

The purpose of the skill maze is to reward meta mechs that need no quirks and few skills to be dominant. Kodiaks, Night Gyrs, etc.

That's it's actual outcome; what PGI pretends it does is a different story entirely. They seem to think that nerfing mechs into the ground and removing life-giving quirks from so many of them will somehow create "balance." They also seem to think that wandering through the skill maze, finding the path with the fewest dead nodes to get the same bonuses on every mech is "choice." They have no idea.

Your Kitfox will be dead, along with most other mechs, when the skill maze goes life. Learn to enjoy the few meta mechs in each general weight class, because those are the only ones that will be relevant in a few weeks if MWO continues on its way to skill maze oblivion.

[krimshaw]

Naduk, on 29 April 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

im curious how you see this as a push for people to buy MC

if your mech had any experience on it, it gets the equivalent in return
a mech can only have 91 nodes applied to it
any mastered mech before the tree goes live gets 91 points to apply for free

while you cannot perhaps match the stats you had pre-update for some mechs
you can still play it however you wish and in most cases better than you could before for that specific style

the drop from previous stats is global
so while you currently feel that its a nerf to specific units you like, you will see that overall its not that big a deal as everything else got with the same stick

If that was the case my kitfox would have had way more then 3 points to add, and my three mastered spiders would have had 91, when I updated them on the test server none of them had over 60 sp.
Maybe the power players won't have this issue, but casual and new players I think will be put off by the new system.

[krimshaw]

Meihru, on 29 April 2017 - 12:10 AM, said:

If its purpose is to generate mc for conversion xp, why do I get spammed with 46000 GSP then instead of the originally planned cbill refund most players want?

Because your not aware of what a corporate business model is?

I do intend to give the new system a try either way no matter how it's implemented, I didn't get a chance to try any of them out in battle, server wait was to long at the time I could play, so I couldn't properly gauge how my newly tweaked fox would have performed, underwhelming most likely.

[krimshaw]

Nightmare1, on 29 April 2017 - 06:00 AM, said:

This. I actually prefer the GSP since I own so many Mechs and like to change loadouts on them occasionally. I would rather get the extra GSP so that I can buy extra nodes, above and beyond the 91 I'm refunded based on Mastery, so that I can have more options without having to grind away at all that nonsense.

Plus, it means that I can level my new Mechs instantly without having to grind away at them. I'm at the point where I don't have the time to grind, and just want to grab and go, if you know what I mean.

This latest refund is perfect, in my book.

The best way to test how the system will play out as far as grinding is to get a server running long enough to test progression on a fresh mech, I'm already aware of how crippled some of my older mechs will be.
You did a lot of bitching in your twitch vid, said the same things I did when I got into it, forced to buy useless nodes, auxiliary slots had to be purchased, perhaps if they did a linear path instead of the honeycomb of doom I would be more accepting of the new system. I think the heavier mechs I mastered did get 91 points though.
Also the new system is far more dependent on perks and enhancements then the skill of the pilot, which actually is or was supposed to be the core aspect of the game.
I truly believe making the skill tree more complex is going to bite them in the *** in the long run, maybe even the short run.

[Nightmare1]

krimshaw, on 29 April 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

The best way to test how the system will play out as far as grinding is to get a server running long enough to test progression on a fresh mech, I'm already aware of how crippled some of my older mechs will be.
You did a lot of bitching in your twitch vid, said the same things I did when I got into it, forced to buy useless nodes, auxiliary slots had to be purchased, perhaps if they did a linear path instead of the honeycomb of doom I would be more accepting of the new system. I think the heavier mechs I mastered did get 91 points though.
Also the new system is far more dependent on perks and enhancements then the skill of the pilot, which actually is or was supposed to be the core aspect of the game.
I truly believe making the skill tree more complex is going to bite them in the *** in the long run, maybe even the short run.

If you re-read my post, you'll realize that I never said anything about the skill system itself. I merely wrote about the refund. While I do fully support the refund I also believe, as you have noted, that the Skill System still needs some improvements.

So, relax, I'm not your enemy.

Edited by Nightmare1, 29 April 2017 - 02:10 PM.

[krimshaw]

Oh I didn't take anything bad from it lol far as I could tell the only thing we don't agree on is sp, and I'm taking that with a grain of salt till I get more experience in matches to see how hard it will be to lvl No issues with you here Nightmare 😊

[krimshaw]

Oh I didn't take anything bad from it lol far as I could tell the only thing we don't agree on is sp, and I'm taking that with a grain of salt till I get more experience in matches to see how hard it will be to lvl No issues with you here Nightmare 😊

[soapyfrog]

Naduk, on 29 April 2017 - 12:11 AM, said:

a mech can only have 91 nodes applied to it

On this point you are wrong.

A mech can only have 91 skill points. It can have up to 242 skill nodes, for a potential total cost of 10,890,000 C-Bills and 193,600 XP.

The XP cost is endless, because even having bought every single node, it costs you 400 xp to apply a skill point to a previously unlocked node.

[Nightmare1]

krimshaw, on 29 April 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

Oh I didn't take anything bad from it lol far as I could tell the only thing we don't agree on is sp, and I'm taking that with a grain of salt till I get more experience in matches to see how hard it will be to lvl No issues with you here Nightmare ������

*Thumbs up*

[krimshaw]

soapyfrog, on 29 April 2017 - 08:59 PM, said:

On this point you are wrong.

A mech can only have 91 skill points. It can have up to 242 skill nodes, for a potential total cost of 10,890,000 C-Bills and 193,600 XP.

The XP cost is endless, because even having bought every single node, it costs you 400 xp to apply a skill point to a previously unlocked node.

Naduk, on 29 April 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

a mech can only have 91 nodes applied to it

I think he is correct though, you can only have 91 nodes activated or "applied" to any single mech at a time, the other nodes are inactive unless they are selected again? SP is how you open them up initially.

[soapyfrog]

Yes you can only have 91 nodes active at once, but all nodes have a cost and there are 242 of them that you can potentially get.

Point is, you aren't done paying for your mech when you hit 91 skill points, unless you never change your skill tree.