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91 Or 200+


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#1 Remover of Obstacles

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 03:47 AM

Quick question.

If I have a fully skilled/mastered mech now, with the new skill tree do I have enough fake token things to unlock all of the nodes or just 91?

#2 Scyther

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 03:59 AM

The mastered mech gets 91 HSP (historical SP) from my understanding, which can be used on any mech of that variant. Eg. if you have two mastered Jenner-Ds, they would each add 91 HSP to the 'JR7-D' variant HSP total.

(1 SP unlocks 1 node)

You will probably pick up some GSP (general SP) from the new system, which can be used to unlock a node on any mech.

#3 Remover of Obstacles

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 09:30 AM

Thank you again Mr. MadBadger - I am having a hard time rationalizing what the community is asking for and what is apparently being proposed.

Just to clarify.

So, I have a completely unlocked mech now.

After the proposed skill tree changes, I will not have a completely unlocked mech (37.6%) and I have to pay respec taxes?


I thought they said "This is a 1:1 refund of all your invested GXP!"?

Does this mean that PGI is making a fully unlocked mech cost more GXP to obtain?

Is PGI increasing the rate that GXP/XP/HSP/GSP/alphabet soup points is earned for the new players that will be flocking to the game after this earth-shattering new system fixes everything?


Footnote: I guess that if you never change your build (boring) and PGI does not do any future balancing, you could be mostly unaffected, by only unlocking less than half of the available skills.

Edited by Remover of Obstacles, 02 May 2017 - 09:34 AM.


#4 Scyther

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 11:52 AM

Well, you are phrasing it as 'completely unlocked mech'. It would be just as valid to say you have a mech with 13 skills unlocked and no modules. Or you have a mech with 5% Torso Speed unlocked, 15% Hard Brake, 5% Fast Fire etc. Or even that you have a mech with 'the minimum of skills unlocked in order to call it mastered'. Those are all as valid as yours.

You're basically just using a semantic device to make it sound as if you are getting short-changed somehow.

Skill Tree 2 has more and different skills than current. 91 nodes gives roughly what a currently mastered mech plus 3-4 modules has in 'skill value'. You don't get all 242 nodes unlocked for the same reason you don't get to put all the modules on your mech.

If you want to 'change' your current build, well, skillwise, you can't. So pick your new skills once and keep them that way forever, that's what you have now. Module-wise, there is a C-Bill cost to change your mech abilities currently. New tree will have both an XP and a C-Bill cost, assuming you actually change anything. If you don't, no cost.

Edited by MadBadger, 02 May 2017 - 11:55 AM.


#5 Chound

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 12:37 PM

View PostRemover of Obstacles, on 02 May 2017 - 03:47 AM, said:

Quick question.

If I have a fully skilled/mastered mech now, with the new skill tree do I have enough fake token things to unlock all of the nodes or just 91?


short answer you will only have 91 sp unlocked at any given time. you could turn nodes relock some nodes or skill 1 tree at a time buy the nodes then lock them and buy other nodes though. If you purchase a node and then change your mind you can relock it but opening it will be 400xp. Since this is a tree anthing past that point will also be locked. I had to keep torso yaw nodes active so I can get my heat containment and other nodes thatI I wanted as part of my base loadout.. If I wanted my mechs to have the full Radar depravation skill I would have to take most of the tree as well.

#6 Remover of Obstacles

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 03:12 PM

Can you purchase the new SP or whatever to unlock nodes with just C-bills?

Or do you need both xp and cbills to purchase SP?


I read that GSP could not be purchased. I may be confused with the increase of grind time. I hope it is just me being confused with the new currencies and not a net increase in XP required to grind out a mech.

Edited by Remover of Obstacles, 02 May 2017 - 03:33 PM.


#7 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 03:47 PM

To unlock a Skill Node, you have to use either 1 HSP, 1 GSP or 45K C-bills + 800 XP. You can unlock as many Skill Nodes as you like but only 91 of them can be active at any one time. For each Mastered Mech that you currently have you will recieve 91 HSP. the GSP that you will receive is based on a calculation that involves how many modules you owned prior to Dec 3, 2016.Both HSP and GSP are the proper combination of C-Bills and XP that will unlock a Skill Node. Any modules purchased after that date will be refunded in straight C-Bills.

Most people will receive enough HSP and GSP to Master a lot more Mechs than they currently have Mastered under the present system. PGI has been very generous in the refund calculations.

All that is contingent on nothing else changing in the refund system in the next two weeks.

#8 Scyther

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 03:49 PM

GSP is the special 'General SP' you get from the conversion to the new system. It can be spent on any mech at any time. Basically it is what modules purchased before Dec.2016 get turned into, I don't recall seeing another source of them.

Each GSP (like a regular SP) can unlock one skill node for one mech.

HSP is 'Historic SP'. Again, this will only be acquired once, at the time of conversion to new system. Historic SP is tied to the mech variant model it is earned on, and is based on the Mastery level of that mech at the conversion date. If your mech is Mastered it gets 91 HSP, if Elited it gets something like 52, I forget how much for Basic skills completed, on the low side though (21 or something). HSP doesn't care about how much EXP you have on the mech, just the highest fully completed skill level (Basic, Elite, Master).

GSP or HSP are used to unlock nodes on a mech, no other cost needed. If you don't have enough HSP to skill up a mech to 91, you can use GSP to unlock more. If you don't have enough GSP, you have to start buying regular SP for that mech, using either GXP, HXP (the experience left on the mech at conversion), or regular XP earned by that mech after conversion.

1 Regular SP for a mech costs 800 XP and 45,000 C-Bills. You cannot purchase them with just C-bills, or just XP, you need some of both.

For respeccing, once you have unlocked a node for a mech with SP, you can turn it off later for free. Then you can either buy another node with an SP, or activate some other previously unlocked, currently 'turned off' node for 400 XP (no C-bills).

To address your last point, yes, a 91-skill node mech in Skill Tree 2 takes both more XP and more C-bills than it does now, for the mech. However it is 'in effect' giving you the benefits of 2-4 modules in those 91 nodes, plus some benefits that did not exist before. Those modules would also have cost you both XP and C-Bills.

So you are basically getting more 'grind' needed per mech, but you are receiving a higher total amount of 'mech ability' for that longer grind. It's roughly, sorta, somewhere around equivalent to what it costs now to master a mech and then fill that mech with modules. Depending on your build, your mileage may vary, ask you doctor, etc. etc. (About 27% more EXP and 4 million C-Bills required per mech for 91 nodes)

Edited by MadBadger, 02 May 2017 - 04:01 PM.


#9 Remover of Obstacles

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 04:59 PM

View PostMadBadger, on 02 May 2017 - 03:49 PM, said:

About 27% more EXP and 4 million C-Bills required per mech for 91 nodes


Ok. I think understand.

Not happy, but I think I get it.

So to completely unlock a mech in the new system so I can play in the mechlab and tinker to my heart's delight, I would need over three times (338%) the value of the current EXP grind with the module system plus the proportional amount C-bills.

Assuming I only change 54 nodes each respec and not all of them, I would need 21,600 EXP each time. That is a bit more than the amount needed to unlock the Master Module for a mech with the Basic and Elite Tiers completed. Respec fee is EXP only, no additional C-bill tax.

Is the rate of C-bill/EXP earning going to be increased to account for the additional EXP and Cbills needed?

#10 Scyther

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 05:22 PM

I believe some of the recent posts were about changing the Match Score formula to more accurately reflect various combat activities, but I don't think it's an overall change to EXP or C-Bills earned.

I can't think of any major games I've played that allow you to 'tinker to your heart's delight' with your build, without attaching a substantial cost. Except The Secret World, maybe. You can change your mech equipment at will (if you can afford the C-bills), but if you wanted to 'tinker' with modules you shelled out 3, 4, 6 million C-bills for each one, as well as something like 10-15,000 GXP to unlock them IIRC. If you wanted to tinker with skills, you just couldn't, you got your 8 basic and 4 elite and a module slot to unlock and that was it.

So basically, you can do what you could do previously, for an 'in the ball-park' sorta equivalent EXP/C-Bill cost. If you want to do more, you pay more.

Not sure why you are so focused on this 'completely unlock' part. Are you really planning to get all the laser skills, all the missile skills, all the LBX skills, all the AC skills, all the range, all the sensors, all the consumables, every mobility, every armor boost, 20 different jumpjet boosts... all on one mech? For all practical purposes you might use maybe 125-140 or so different nodes on one mech, I can't think of many that have so many different 'useful' loadouts that you would use more than that.

#11 Cy Mitchell

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Posted 02 May 2017 - 06:16 PM

View PostRemover of Obstacles, on 02 May 2017 - 04:59 PM, said:


Ok. I think understand.

Not happy, but I think I get it.

So to completely unlock a mech in the new system so I can play in the mechlab and tinker to my heart's delight, I would need over three times (338%) the value of the current EXP grind with the module system plus the proportional amount C-bills.

Assuming I only change 54 nodes each respec and not all of them, I would need 21,600 EXP each time. That is a bit more than the amount needed to unlock the Master Module for a mech with the Basic and Elite Tiers completed. Respec fee is EXP only, no additional C-bill tax.

Is the rate of C-bill/EXP earning going to be increased to account for the additional EXP and Cbills needed?



I am not sure why anyone would respec 54 nodes. If you are changing weapons, chances are you will have only 20 or so invested in the weapon tree. Of those, many of them apply to more than one weapon type like cooldown, heat generation and range. Even if you do 'turn off" a bunch of nodes and buy nodes, the ones you turned off can be turned back on for 400 XP each so the next respec will cost significantly less. Only someone with an omni-mech that was totally switching out its weapon types would get anywhere near 54 nodes in a respec. Even then because of the old "rule of three" you will have received so much GSP and HSP that you will be able to Master several different variants so you will probably not need to totally respec one because you will have others that already can do that job.

You can now take a fresh single Mech and Master it by itself. The time to do so will be less than having to level 3 Mechs to get one Mastered. Plus instead of having to save up XP to get a big boost you will be able to invest smaller amounts of XP and get gradual increases in performance as you work towards Mastery.





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