12 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

[old] i plan to make a new one at a later date

Edited by Kin3ticX, 17 February 2018 - 08:26 PM.

[Leone]

As an Addendum:

A quick 11 pt dip into Operations gets you your cool run an heat containment at 3/5ths.

A 13 pt dip into the Left side of Mobility gets you your torso twist at 4/5ths with some added manouverability, but you'll miss out on speed tweak.  And, if you think about it, speed tweak lets you take a smaller engine, freeing up room for more goodies, so it's a solid choice.

I've found for heavies the survivability tree 23 pts deep, skipping the wings and the ams overload actually provides some noticeable survivability.

The aux tree only needs go 5 pts deep to get like, double something an a third consumable.

As for firepower, well, I tend to go fairly heavily inna that one, as I feel the best survivability lies in takin' out my opposition afore they can take me.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 16 May 2017 - 11:24 PM.

[DeeHawk]

It's noteworthy to mention that:


Heat containment only applies to your BASE capacity (which is 30 for every mech), which means you gain 4.5 capacity flat for all 5 nodes. This is worth more for small mechs who can't increase heat cap with more heatsinks due to low tonnage. 4.5 capacity is equal to 3x IS DHS external or 4x Clan DHS external, off course without the dissipation effect of the heatsinks.

Cool Run only applies to the dissipation rate of your heatsinks (including internal). Therefore it is least effective on mechs in the category mentioned above, and a whole lot more effective on laser boats with 20+ DHS.

It still baffles me, that you need a minor degree in mathematics to figure this out. And it's not information you can percieve in the client.

Source: https://steamcommuni...s/?id=686548357

Edited by DeeHawk, 16 May 2017 - 10:44 PM.

[Old-dirty B]

DeeHawk, on 16 May 2017 - 10:42 PM, said:

Cool Run only applies to the dissipation rate of your heatsinks (including internal). Therefore it is least effective on mechs in the category mentioned above, and a whole lot more effective on laser boats with 20+ DHS.

I believe mechs that have heat dissipation quirks also benefit more as it acts like a multiplier, for example the locust. If im correct, in that case, a coolrun node is slightly more effective then a heat gen node - but this depends on the total ammount of heat generated ofc.

[DeeHawk]

B3R3ND, on 17 May 2017 - 04:29 AM, said:

I believe mechs that have heat dissipation quirks also benefit more as it acts like a multiplier, for example the locust. If im correct, in that case, a coolrun node is slightly more effective then a heat gen node - but this depends on the total ammount of heat generated ofc.

According to PGI, multipliers only work for armor and structure based quirks. All other quirks stack with similar effects.

From newest patch notes:

Quote

It's important to note that this also applies for 'Mechs with existing Armor or Structure-based Quirks. Quirks in these cases are being factored into the percentile bonus' of the Survival Skill Tree. So an Atlas with native Armor bonus' gains more bonus Armor through the Survival tree then a Dire Wolf with no Armor-based quirks.

In some cases, enhancements received from a Skill Node will overlap with enhancements received from an inherent Quirk. For example, unlocking a Torso Speed Skill for a 'Mech which already possesses an inherent Torso Speed Quirk.

In such cases, bonuses received from Skills and Quirks are both added to the base value. For example, a 10% Torso Speed Skill bonus and a 10% Torso Speed Quirk bonus will result in a 20% overall boost to base Torso Speed.

When a Weapon-suite is benefiting from an applied Skill the bonus values will now be conveyed in the Weapon stat tooltip.

[Kin3ticX]

Leone, on 16 May 2017 - 10:21 PM, said:

A quick 11 pt dip into Operations gets you your cool run an heat containment at 3/5ths.

I've found for heavies the survivability tree 23 pts deep, skipping the wings and the ams overload actually provides some noticeable survivability.

good point


I havent messed with the tank tree much yet but when investing heavily in that tree you have to skim a lot of other areas.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 17 May 2017 - 06:39 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

DeeHawk, on 16 May 2017 - 10:42 PM, said:

It's noteworthy to mention that:


Heat containment only applies to your BASE capacity (which is 30 for every mech), which means you gain 4.5 capacity flat for all 5 nodes. This is worth more for small mechs who can't increase heat cap with more heatsinks due to low tonnage. 4.5 capacity is equal to 3x IS DHS external or 4x Clan DHS external, off course without the dissipation effect of the heatsinks.

Cool Run only applies to the dissipation rate of your heatsinks (including internal). Therefore it is least effective on mechs in the category mentioned above, and a whole lot more effective on laser boats with 20+ DHS.

It still baffles me, that you need a minor degree in mathematics to figure this out. And it's not information you can percieve in the client.

Source: https://steamcommuni...s/?id=686548357

heat containment isnt the best but it will increase your time to shutdown, but not your long run hot DPS. You end up with heat containment trying to get cool run anyways.

[DeeHawk]

Heat Containment gives you 4,5 extra heat to play with, no matter what mech you play

Cool Run on a mech with only 7 internal and 3 external heatsinks (Locust), will only gain 0.2 heat per second in dissipation, which translates to the dissipation rate of roughly 1.5 IS DHS external for all 5 nodes. In this case I definately wouldn't recommend going for the last two Cool Run nodes in the bottom.

As I stated, for Mechs with more heatsinks, it is noticably better.

*EDIT*
Looking through some spreadsheet magic, I must change my above statement. Cool Run is definitely worth it, however Heat Gen seems better in general (avoids heat instead of cooling faster).

I will update with relevant numbers, when I get time to crunch the rest of it.

Edited by DeeHawk, 18 May 2017 - 01:24 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

DeeHawk, on 17 May 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

Heat Containment gives you 4,5 extra heat to play with, no matter what mech you play

Cool Run on a mech with only 7 internal and 3 external heatsinks (Locust), will only gain 0.2 heat per second in dissipation, which translates to the dissipation rate of roughly 1.5 IS DHS external for all 5 nodes. In this case I definately wouldn't recommend going for the last two Cool Run nodes in the bottom.

As I stated, for Mechs with more heatsinks, it is noticably better.

*EDIT*
Looking through some spreadsheet magic, I must change my above statement. Cool Run is definitely worth it, however Heat Gen seems better in general (avoids heat instead of cooling faster).

I will update with relevant numbers, when I get time to crunch the rest of it.

its because as you collect heat gens you also collect cooldowns whereas cool run is a direct cooling buff. heat gen is still good though, you dont have to fire faster even though you have more cooldown

Edited by Kin3ticX, 18 May 2017 - 10:28 AM.

[DeeHawk]

Kin3ticX, on 18 May 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

its because as you collect heat gens you also collect cooldowns whereas cool run is a direct cooling buff. heat gen is still good though, you dont have to fire faster even though you have more cooldown

Well that's kind of a fallacy, since you don't really get hotter (Damage per heat). There's no bad thing in cooldown at all, it doesn't make you hotter. It just makes you shoot faster. Means you can build up your heat but also your damage quicker.

No that's not what tricked me. It's the meesly 0.2 heat dissipation from 5 whole skill points, which means you regenerate 1 heat extra every 5 seconds. Seems like close to nothing. It actually does make a noticable difference over time in the numbers, but I have some discrepancies I need to fix before I'm totally sure.

Off course, I'm still talking about lights with only 10 heatsinks. Energy heavy mechs must have Cool Run!

[Kwea]

it does make you hotter overall, when you factor time in as well. In real life factoring your cooldown means you can generate more heat in x seconds than before. You heat per damage point will not change, but remember that time is the third leg of that tripod. It becomes VERY easy to overheat if you spend unnecessary points in cooldowns.

8 our of 10 times cooldowns are good, but I had a few builds I had to back off them, and it make the mech noticeably better. Mostly pure laser boats like the Thunderwub.

Keep in mind that terrain can add heat as well, and heat gen does nothing to help dissipate that heat as it is not weapon fire based. Cool Run WILL help get rid of that heat better, so I think Kinetix is right saying how valuable Cool Run is to a laser boat. I know I take at least 3/5 on all mechs other than gauss boats and uac's, and 5/5 on laser boats.

Edited by Kwea, 01 June 2017 - 09:01 PM.

[DeeHawk]

Kwea, on 01 June 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

it does make you hotter overall, when you factor time in as well. In real life factoring your cooldown means you can generate more heat in x seconds than before. You heat per damage point will not change, but remember that time is the third leg of that tripod. It becomes VERY easy to overheat if you spend unnecessary points in cooldowns.

8 our of 10 times cooldowns are good, but I had a few builds I had to back off them, and it make the mech noticeably better. Mostly pure laser boats like the Thunderwub.

If you say so. This is highly subjective and related to playstyle. I've never had to choke my mechs because of being trigger happy.

Kwea, on 01 June 2017 - 08:45 PM, said:

Keep in mind that terrain can add heat as well, and heat gen does nothing to help dissipate that heat as it is not weapon fire based. Cool Run WILL help get rid of that heat better, so I think Kinetix is right saying how valuable Cool Run is to a laser boat. I know I take at least 3/5 on all mechs other than gauss boats and uac's, and 5/5 on laser boats.

You're completely right.

DeeHawk, on 18 May 2017 - 10:24 PM, said:

Off course, I'm still talking about lights with only 10 heatsinks. Energy heavy mechs must have Cool Run!

[Kin3ticX]

As far as laserboats go I always take 5/5 coolrun.

Seems like it gets more complicated with brawlers and dakka and thats where more trial and error begins.