32 replies to this topic

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

In the skill tree patch the BLR-2C was dequirked in the agility quirks. I didn't think this would matter too much but that was totally wrong. The mech went from a very reliable multi-kill XP earner to a losing mech. I doubt that this is me since I'm doing very well (at least better than a month ago) with other mechs, I skilled out The Battlemaster with max survival quirks (33), high laser focused firepower (43), heat management in operations (9), and double enhanced cool shots (5 aux). Plus 1 SP in target info gathering. I use a STD engine (340) to live longer but for weight reasons I have mixed large and medium PL: 2LPL and 4MPL. Two AMS.

Armor as follows
CT: 109/12
ST: 70/11
Arms: 63
Legs: 48/49
Head: 14

Should I just give up on this thing, or any suggestions to make it good again? Thanks

Edited by DeloresAbernathy, 24 May 2017 - 05:42 AM.

[Husker Dude]

The 2C is still one of the best IS mechs. Probably the most common one you'll see on the IS side in FW taken by the stronger units.
Definitely re-skill it, I'd ease way back on the survival nodes (focus on the structure nodes, boosting the existing structure quirks), invest in half of the mobility tree (a path down one side to the bottom speed tweak, and maybe a spare point or two for an extra hard brake/kinetic boost if you want to poke around cover more safely), operations should be fine (I claim 3 heat management and 2 cool runs), and the single point in sensors and just one for the extra module slot.

I think most people would be taking an XL 375 engine to get the extra LPL in the loadout, but even with the STD 340 the heat efficiency should be about the same (probably better at range, when you're only firing LPLs and not the MPL).

Also, most people will also recommend allocating more armor forward, over 10 rear armor is too much for sure. I like the old adage of keeping taking a point of armor off the rear until you actually die from a rear shot.

[Rogue Jedi]

I will second Husker Dude's sugestion that If the Mech lost its agality quirks and is no longer agile enough for you try taking agility skills and see if that helps

Husker Dude, on 24 May 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

Also, most people will also recommend allocating more armor forward, over 10 rear armor is too much for sure. I like the old adage of keeping taking a point of armor off the rear until you actually die from a rear shot.

As someone who uses fast Mechs a lot and about half my solo kills come from the fact that few people bother with significant rear armor I cannot recomend going too low on rear armor, but this is from me frequently killing people who decided against taking rear armor not me suffering a lot of rear torso deaths, so take from that opinion what you will.

otherwise I completely agree with Husker Dude.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 24 May 2017 - 08:33 AM.

[Koniving]

I can't recall what the original quirks were....

But in the old skill tree, enhancements like 55% faster acceleration, 50% faster braking, etc. stacked with whatever the quirks were (so if 25% faster acceleration was a quirk, then an elited BLG 2C would have 80% faster acceleration than a normal 85 ton mech without a skill tree).

As you can imagine this was absolutely freaking insane.

With the agility quirks lost and an empty skill tree, naturally it'll be very different than the overpowered monster it once was.

The new skill tree works as a "choose your own quirks" system. If agility was that important, make sure to net those kinetic bursts, twist speeds, etc under the mobility skill tree.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

Husker Dude, on 24 May 2017 - 07:44 AM, said:

The 2C is still one of the best IS mechs. Probably the most common one you'll see on the IS side in FW taken by the stronger units.
Definitely re-skill it, I'd ease way back on the survival nodes (focus on the structure nodes, boosting the existing structure quirks), invest in half of the mobility tree (a path down one side to the bottom speed tweak, and maybe a spare point or two for an extra hard brake/kinetic boost if you want to poke around cover more safely), operations should be fine (I claim 3 heat management and 2 cool runs), and the single point in sensors and just one for the extra module slot.

I think most people would be taking an XL 375 engine to get the extra LPL in the loadout, but even with the STD 340 the heat efficiency should be about the same (probably better at range, when you're only firing LPLs and not the MPL).

Also, most people will also recommend allocating more armor forward, over 10 rear armor is too much for sure. I like the old adage of keeping taking a point of armor off the rear until you actually die from a rear shot.

Thanks for the help .. I've started to reskill for agility as suggested. A slow and expensive process since as a new player (February 3017) I don't have extra SP laying around from modules.

As to rear armor ... I'm concerned about unintentional team damage and lights sneaking up. In the public single queue both are dangers since people sometimes don't "watch your back" if your an assault but do shoot at it by mistake when I'm out front. I am a serial offender in that area myself, due in part to he "tunnel effect" of using zoom, which I am trying to be more aware of. Also once the red triangle was right over my teammate due to him lining up with the enemy in my line of sight and I thought he was the enemy Mech. All that is to say .. yes I've been shot through my armor in the back so I keep it where it is for that reason.

[Void Angel]

The good news is that you only have to unlock a given node once - after you've unlocked it, it just takes a minor amount of chassis exp to re-activate. On the subject of armor, if you are routinely needing more than 10 points of armor on an 85-ton assault, you need to fix your situational awareness - but you'll still get more out of shifting armor forward, particularly once you get more mobility skills.

I wouldn't use Advanced Zoom, by the way. There's inconsistencies in how the module works (due to game engine issues; they'd have to completely re-render the screen to do it right,) making it something I've learned to avoid.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Best bet is to max those survival skills except for the 2 AMS skills and that one casing skill you don't need to get all the other stuff. After that go through operations for maximum cool run and heat containment, then go through the firepower tree and get all the laser duration, range, and heat gen you can with cooldowns as a very low priority.

Do this and enemies will be overheating before they can kill you and you'll be able to just keep on firing powerful shots.

Mobility tree is entirely overrated, especially on assaults since their base mobility is so low that the small percentage increases don't amount to anything of worth.

EDIT:
Here is my build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...46d15671bf131ef

You don't really need much rear armor at all, just max the structure bonuses and you're like taking out a medium mech after all the armor is actually gone and crits don't happen much because of all the casing upgrades.

KDR of 5 and a WLR of 3 with 565 average damage based on my stats with this mech, so I'm sure I'm doing something right. With all that survival boost its hard to die and with all the firepower boosts your damage can be extremely precise.

Edited by Dakota1000, 24 May 2017 - 11:34 AM.

[Damnedtroll]

Still a very good mech after the update, with survival skills he become sturdy like hell. Running 350 std, 3 lrg with 2 asrm6. Mostly survival, mobility and the left side of firepower tree for skills.

Yeah my build not meta for some but it works well for me.

Edited by Damnedtroll, 24 May 2017 - 03:42 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Lol BLR2C nerfed...

If you think that, you don't know how to skill tree. It copped a massive BUFF. One of the few IS mechs to shine after skill tree.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

justcallme A S H, on 24 May 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

Lol BLR2C nerfed...

If you think that, you don't know how to skill tree. It copped a massive BUFF. One of the few IS mechs to shine after skill tree.

That's why I asked for suggestions.

[Gwahlur]

I'm still having great success with the blr-2c.
Here's my spec, since why not. Feel free to try, modify, comment or theorycraft on it:

Edited by Gwahlur, 24 May 2017 - 05:06 PM.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

Dakota1000, on 24 May 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

Best bet is to max those survival skills except for the 2 AMS skills and that one casing skill you don't need to get all the other stuff. After that go through operations for maximum cool run and heat containment, then go through the firepower tree and get all the laser duration, range, and heat gen you can with cooldowns as a very low priority.

Do this and enemies will be overheating before they can kill you and you'll be able to just keep on firing powerful shots.

Mobility tree is entirely overrated, especially on assaults since their base mobility is so low that the small percentage increases don't amount to anything of worth.

EDIT:
Here is my build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...46d15671bf131ef

You don't really need much rear armor at all, just max the structure bonuses and you're like taking out a medium mech after all the armor is actually gone and crits don't happen much because of all the casing upgrades.

KDR of 5 and a WLR of 3 with 565 average damage based on my stats with this mech, so I'm sure I'm doing something right. With all that survival boost its hard to die and with all the firepower boosts your damage can be extremely precise.

Well this sounds like good advice, so now I am confused between agility and structure. But thanks! I have put in an XL engine so I could have more weapon weight and heat sinks and upped the front armor, reduced the rear. My structure/armor quirks were already very high, and I switched a little to agility. I'll see if that's better.

[Ertur]

Rogue Jedi, on 24 May 2017 - 08:33 AM, said:

As someone who uses fast Mechs a lot and about half my solo kills come from the fact that few people bother with significant rear armor I cannot recomend going too low on rear armor, but this is from me frequently killing people who decided against taking rear armor not me suffering a lot of rear torso deaths, so take from that opinion what you will.

otherwise I completely agree with Husker Dude.

I cannot disagree with this comment any more than I already do. By all means, reduce your rear armor -- ideally to zero. Also it would be a great help for you to walk into every bout of combat backwards.

I hope this helps,
Sincerely,
A Jenner Pilot

[justcallme A S H]

DeloresAbernathy, on 24 May 2017 - 04:58 PM, said:

That's why I asked for suggestions.

1. Pick every structure node you can. Do not select ANY armour nodes (unless you have to). Armour is a waste.

2. Get the majority of all range/cooldown/heat gen you can (don't need all, but most). Do not get duration, it is a waste on LPL, the bonus is not significant enough to make it worthwhile. Most mechs are not going full agility so a further reason not to touch duration nodes.

3. Ops tree - unlock at least 3 coolrun. Don't bother with heat containment unless needed

4. Dump heaps into agility (torso twist speed, kinetic & hard break) so can twist/spread dmg and manoeuvre better

5. Unlock either UAV or Airstrike and then get two coolshot nodes for 50% and that's it. Don't need more than 1 on a 2LPL mech, you just aren't hot enough.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 24 May 2017 - 06:20 PM.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

justcallme A S H, on 24 May 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

1. Pick every structure node you can. Do not select ANY armour nodes (unless you have to). Armour is a waste.

2. Get the majority of all range/cooldown/heat gen you can (don't need all, but most). Do not get duration, it is a waste on LPL, the bonus is not significant enough to make it worthwhile. Most mechs are not going full agility so a further reason not to touch duration nodes.

3. Ops tree - unlock at least 3 coolrun. Don't bother with heat containment unless needed

4. Dump heaps into agility (torso twist speed, kinetic & hard break) so can twist/spread dmg and manoeuvre better

5. Unlock either UAV or Airstrike and then get two coolshot nodes for 50% and that's it. Don't need more than 1 on a 2LPL mech, you just aren't hot enough.

Dakota1000, on 24 May 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

Best bet is to max those survival skills except for the 2 AMS skills and that one casing skill you don't need to get all the other stuff. After that go through operations for maximum cool run and heat containment, then go through the firepower tree and get all the laser duration, range, and heat gen you can with cooldowns as a very low priority.

Do this and enemies will be overheating before they can kill you and you'll be able to just keep on firing powerful shots.

Mobility tree is entirely overrated, especially on assaults since their base mobility is so low that the small percentage increases don't amount to anything of worth.

EDIT:
Here is my build:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...46d15671bf131ef

You don't really need much rear armor at all, just max the structure bonuses and you're like taking out a medium mech after all the armor is actually gone and crits don't happen much because of all the casing upgrades.

KDR of 5 and a WLR of 3 with 565 average damage based on my stats with this mech, so I'm sure I'm doing something right. With all that survival boost its hard to die and with all the firepower boosts your damage can be extremely precise.

Thanks again ... so I see some disagreement about agility. Dakota said it's overrated for mechs with low agility base stats, which makes sense since it's a percentage adjustment and adding 10% to a really low turn rate is still really low (e.g. atlas or king crab). But on the other hand a really bad agility rate will always be a little less bad if it's skilled up. Also the BLR agility stats -- even after the quirk nerf -- are still on par with some well regarded heavies (e.g., the Warhammer) and significantly better than the most lumbering assaults. So it's not clear to me that agility skills are a "waste" on the BLR. What is the threshold for the agility to be hopeless and not worth spilling up?

I'm also a little puzzled about the advice "armor is a waste" - which seems also to be a point where there is a difference of opinion. I see that structure is more efficient than armor HP wise, due to structure quirks, but is armor really a waste? I mean hit points are still hit points. And armor protects against critical hits ... whereas structure does not. So I don't get why armor would be a waste, even if it's a lower priority than structure for this mech or any mech with more than trivial structure quirks. (Metamechs has some detailed numbers for this analysis but I don't pretend to understand how they are derived or if they are correct : see
http://metamechs.com.../survival-tree/ )

Any Further thoughts on these questions?

[Nightbird]

Definitely been nerfed, I only did 3000 damage and 12 kills in one mech, used to do 4500 and 18

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

NlGHTBlRD, on 25 May 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

Definitely been nerfed, I only did 3000 damage and 12 kills in one mech, used to do 4500 and 18

Maybe I am just on the spectrum, I don't get sarcasm. I mean you can't do 18 kills on one game unless you kill your own team. Does that count? Doesn't seem fair.
And if you mean it wasn't nerfed, well objectively it was, since the agility quirks are gone. You could say it doesn't matter with the right skills, but still its definitely nerfed.
But basically I have no idea what you meant.

Edited by DeloresAbernathy, 25 May 2017 - 07:09 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

He's talking FP.

But ye, IMO, agility needs investment - do not go full survival as the armour is simply not worth unlocking. You're only getting a 6-7 points of armour for like 7-10 nodes. Skeletal & BLR2C = match made in heaven.

I only go agility as I love twisting as I'm always 5LPL in a BLR2C, so needs agility to spread dmg and use that bonus structure.

[Koniving]

DeloresAbernathy, on 25 May 2017 - 05:30 PM, said:

I'm also a little puzzled about the advice "armor is a waste" - which seems also to be a point where there is a difference of opinion. I see that structure is more efficient than armor HP wise, due to structure quirks, but is armor really a waste? I mean hit points are still hit points. And armor protects against critical hits ... whereas structure does not. So I don't get why armor would be a waste, even if it's a lower priority than structure for this mech or any mech with more than trivial structure quirks. (Metamechs has some detailed numbers for this analysis but I don't pretend to understand how they are derived or if they are correct : see
http://metamechs.com.../survival-tree/ )

Any Further thoughts on these questions?

Some people value one more than the other.
For some, armor seems to vaporize really quickly, making it seem worthless.
For some, structure quirks aren't worth much since all the weapons, equipment, etc. is getting destroyed. There's also the 15% of crit damage goes into structure damage as bonus damage, making structured die quicker for weapons with high crit successes.

The "numbers" on your link, is the minimum amount of armor you get from quirks to make armor hardening worth the investment in skill points.
The same is true of structure and skeletal density skills, if you get a certain amount of structure from quirks for X weight, it's worth investing whole heartedly into structure.

Kinda like if your lasers get a reduction in beam time with quirks, the four laser reduction skills pay off far more than if you didn't have that quirk.

[justcallme A S H]

Ye I lost 3 LPL in a single torso with the added structure when I was testing it out.

But as I was IS XL - I'd rather lose a LPL (or 3) than be insta-gibbed from a torso being ripped apart much more easily