104 replies to this topic

[chucklesMuch]

Skill tree is okay, needs some qol improvements. I'm not currently getting the best out it as I haven't spent the time to understand all the numbers.

[Reza Malin]

Ted Wayz, on 29 May 2017 - 03:16 PM, said:

Well it seems other see downsides.

But tell me, do you think the game is funded by good feelings? People hate the rule of three but it helped fund the game.

I like playing the game where I shoot robots, not where is that skill I want and how do I get to it. Especially to end up exactly where my mech was before the tree.

But you can fund the game for us. I mean you like it so much you will spend more right?

Wow so much edge here, dont cut yourself mate.

It took me about 10 minutes to overcome the overwhelming initial look at the skill trees. I can now skill a mech up in about 2 minutes. I skill each one up if and when i decide to use them.

Its really not a big deal unless you overdramatise it like 3 or 4 peoplehave here.

Also, no idea why you are talking about funding. Are you privvy to PGI's financial planning and strategies?

[Reza Malin]

Tarogato, on 29 May 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

I spent three hours last night skilling mechs and double-checking and fixing some of the mechs I skilled the first day it launched because I did some of them incorrectly. By the time I was done, I hadn't played a single match, and I didn't want to play the game anymore.

So no...

I'm not enjoying it. And I never will. It's an annoying min-maxing time sink. Actually 100% a waste of time.

Fair enough, each to their own.

I can skill up a mech in about 2 minutes now i understand each tree and where to go to acquire what i need.

Really not sure why people are making out like its such a massive task. Its not. Its just unfamilar at first.

Edited by Reza Malin, 29 May 2017 - 08:43 PM.

[SeventhSL]

Loving to new skill tree!!! Still got a lot of mechs to skill up but I'm in no hurry. Really enjoying the new options it has opened up and the new life it has put into some on my less used mechs.

[SQW]

The skill tree is terrible design-wise and gives lights the same amount of option as assaults which does little to differentiate their roles. Lights should have access to only the top 1/2 of firepower and survival tree while the assaults should only take the top half of mobility and sensor tree for example.

However, I do like the utility tree which allows me to spam Artillery or Air Strike. Oh and able to overload my AMS without having to sacrifice a module slot is a bonus too.

[Ruar]

Reza Malin, on 29 May 2017 - 08:33 PM, said:

So much wrong with your mindset here.

Firstly rule of 3 being gone is directly tied to the new skill tree system. Do you know what the rule of 3 is/was?

Secondly, no skill is essential. You just perceive them to be. Even if you had no skills at all, you could still do well with any number of mechs and a decent build.

The only thing wrong with thr skill tree that i can see is a lot of the playerbase are to lazy to utilise it. Yet i bet a lot of the same people were crying that the skill tree needed revamping.

Usual MWO forum crap.

I can skill a mech up in about 2 minutes now. Its really not a big deal. I skilled up 2 drop decks worth in about 20 minutes and was good to go.

Rule of 3 could have been removed at anytime and each mech able to unlock all on its own. Don't confuse changing the skill trees as being necessary.

On the one hand it's don't need to use the tree but on the other people are wrong for not using it. Pick one please.

[SQW]

Reza Malin, on 29 May 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

Fair enough, each to their own.

I can skill up a mech in about 2 minutes now i understand each tree and where to go to acquire what i need.

Really not sure why people are making out like its such a massive task. Its not. Its just unfamilar at first.

How different are each of your mech's skill tree? I bet they are all 90% the same according to weight class right? If so, you have to ask yourself, why invent 200+ nodes for us to click through 91 times if the results are so similar in the end?

The skill tree is on the right track but the implementation is just really amateurish. There are quite a few threads where people made a leaner, clearer and more diverse version based on the tree by just by making the web into a tree and adjust cost by depth.

[Tarogato]

Reza Malin, on 29 May 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

Fair enough, each to their own.

I can skill up a mech in about 2 minutes now i understand each tree and where to go to acquire what i need.

Really not sure why people are making out like its such a massive task. Its not. Its just unfamilar at first.

I mean... I've been skilling mechs and theorycrafting since this was on PTS. I can probably do each mech in about a minute or two, but not including time spent in training grounds deciding how much I need to invest in mobility. But when you have 120 mechs to spec out... it's a bit of a nightmare.

[SQW]

The Jerol, on 30 May 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

Anyway, so long and thanks for the fish...

TJ

Then can I have you password?

Then again, I'll probably spend most of my time watching BT beta pvp videos.

[Flitzomat]

Ruar, on 29 May 2017 - 04:14 PM, said:

I don't like that I have to start a mech without radar dep when before I could throw it right on. Yes there is GXP but I don't like using that for any new mech I decide to play.

Given that you are a founder there should be plenty of GSP available on your account. Use them instead.

[Flitzomat]

The Jerol, on 30 May 2017 - 12:02 AM, said:

The bottom line is I'm busy and I just can't devote the hours needed to completely relearn the entire game. And no, it is not possible to respec a mech with 91 skills in two minutes. I can't tell how any of it even works when I log in. I'm sure I could figure it out if I wanted to read a lot of articles, and scan the forums, and toil for hours in the Testing Grounds, and watch hours of YouTube videos -- but I just don't want to do that. It took me months to learn the old system and this is FAR more complicated. Right now, I just have 80 completely unusable mechs and a billion C-bills (or some ultra-high meaningless number) sitting in my bays. And, of course, I feel like a ******* idiot for giving this company so much money over the years.

Don´t understand your point at all because the 2 minutes are real.

Also people pretend that you need to make a science out of the 91 SP. If you spend your 91Sp halfwhat sane (dont´max the JJ tree if you dont have JJ, or just don´t max the JJ´s if you do not want to play flight simulator) then your mech will perform. Maybe differently than before but it will perform.

So it´s no excuse to pretend the Skilltree is to complicated. It´s blatent ignorance or a disguised MWO-burnout (which is totally acceptable if you would name it as such)

Edited by Flitzomat, 30 May 2017 - 01:10 AM.

[BurningDesire]

still hate it. they managed to nuke the mechs i play that rely on the acceleration quirks to make them usable.

Also make the Cicada 3C great again

Edited by BurningDesire, 30 May 2017 - 01:26 AM.

[lazytopaz]

ST needs a lot of work and tweaking.
Customizing it/tailoring it to specific mechs will have to be done (I hope).
Jump Jet skill tree is redundant IMO. Either you don't have enough jump jets on your mech to make an effort putting (more like wasting) skill points in the jump jet skill tree.... or you have enough jump jets to just ignore jump jet skill tree.
If it was scaling to benefit mechs that have very few jump jets in the first place ... then maybe it would've been worth something (like doubling effectiveness of 3 jump jets. triple'ing of 2 and so on). Now? I don't see why would I waste precious SP's when I could just focus on more pressing matters like mobility, sensors, coolrun/heat dissipation or even double coolshot.

My clan mechs are loving it - clan lasers can actually be made a LOADS cooler.
I'm immensely enjoying my EXE and my SCR got loads stronger too.

My CN9-D (as much as the rest of the Centurion family) are gathering dust. Simply put there are multiple/many other mechs who can do the same thing... but better, faster and can have jump jets. There's nothing going for this mech other than nostalgia of "what used to be".

Just like the rest of the castrated, de-quirked IS mech family (for the most medium part, my heavies didn't had to rely on quirks in the first place).

[Bud Crue]

lazytopaz, on 30 May 2017 - 01:28 AM, said:

ST needs a lot of work and tweaking.

https://mwomercs.com...l-tree-balance/

Read the OP in that thread. Does that post read to you like there is the remotest chance that the skills tree will see a lot of tweaking or customizing? The assertion that balance has never been closer with the implication that such parity is due to the skills tree, pretty much killed all hope for a dramatically slimmed down or otherwise highly modified skills tree right there.

The skills tree is the system PGI has given us and PGI thinks it is about as close to perfect as can be. Sure there will be some minor changes here and there, especially as they change other things (new tech, etc.), but nope that thread I cited reads like a dev in love with what they behold. They are not going to be doing a lot of changes to something that they are asserting has made the game as close to balance that it has ever been.

Love it or hate it the skills tree as we know it now, is the reality we have to accept.

[Reza Malin]

Tarogato, on 29 May 2017 - 11:37 PM, said:

I mean... I've been skilling mechs and theorycrafting since this was on PTS. I can probably do each mech in about a minute or two, but not including time spent in training grounds deciding how much I need to invest in mobility. But when you have 120 mechs to spec out... it's a bit of a nightmare.

I hear you, i have more than 120, i have just been skilling them up before i use them. That way its gradual.

Also if you have been playing a game 4+ years like we have, any new majorly retroactive new features are going to have legacy issues. It is what it is. If we had been playing less time it wouldnt even be an issue.

[Burke IV]

Bud Crue, on 30 May 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

They are not going to be doing a lot of changes to something that they are asserting has made the game as close to balance that it has ever been.

Love it or hate it the skills tree as we know it now, is the reality we have to accept.

Well i just hope you are wrong. I am starting to feel quite cheated with the whole thing tbh, like everything i paid for got switched on me. It wasnt alot but still. The skill tree to me is utterly opaque, i have no idea what i need and what i can live without and as i said before im not interested in playing trial and error. I want to be able to log in and play a few games, im not even interested in filling the tree one time, let alone having to deal with paying for nodes. They had no right to put this on people who had been paying and playing for years. Permanently sht listed PGI and ill think very carefully about buying stuff off people you appear to be affiliated with.

[Davegt27]

based on the amount of time it takes to get a game/match I down vote this
the more I use the new skill system the less I like it

HSP and XP are the same still cost 800 and 45K C-bills

I find that it has mostly killed my experimentation with load outs
not being a super player having fun in the Mech lab was a fun part of the game

my skill trees will end up looking the same for all Mechs, for example I will unlock all the laser duration
nodes since most load outs will have lasers on them

also Radar dep cost 5 nodes so most mechs get that ( I used to own over 60 radar dep modules) so I get to buy the stuff
I already had

it sucks more the more I think about it
I don't even want to buy new mechs since I don't know what the next under handed trick PGI will pull
I can play 3 matches before I need to log off

[R Valentine]

Leveling up still sucks donkey balls. Running slow assaults without radar dep is tantamount to suicide. Some of the faster clan assaults, like the Warhawk and Marauder IIC do OK without it, but when I did the Mauler last week it was like pulling teeth. Some skills are buried way too deep. Does your build rely on magazine capacity? Well enjoy digging through the entire firepower tree to get to it. 91 nodes was always a dumb number. I still think it needs to be reduced by at least half and have nodes merged. This week was the only week I found leveling mechs bareable, and that's only because of double XP.

[Humpday]

Davegt27, on 30 May 2017 - 05:34 AM, said:

my skill trees will end up looking the same for all Mechs, for example I will unlock all the laser duration
nodes since most load outs will have lasers on them

also Radar dep cost 5 nodes so most mechs get that ( I used to own over 60 radar dep modules) so I get to buy the stuff
I already had

Watch out with that laser duration, It doesn't do much unless it stacks with a quirk might save you .1 of a second, its a negligible improvement.

Anyway I like the skill system a LOT better than the old.
In fact for a large portion of time, when I get a loadout picked for a mech that I like, I play the mech mostly stock, skill wise, till I get a real good feeling of "man, this thing needs some ${insert_skill_here}, gdamn!". Then I'll skill. Its nice to find deficiencies of your builds and be able to fix them with skills.

Different loadouts require different skills. Some may need accel/decel for quick poking. Some need heat gen and cool run and extra cools shot, some may need extensive range and velocity buffs.

The customization is incredible...also...when you know what you're doing you can basically auto skill portions of your mech just by looking at it.

More so I like the unpredictability of not instantly knowing if you can kill that mech with an open CT or not. This makes many players screw up as many over commit tryinh to commit to a kill, not realizing you have over 70points of internal struct left even though your ct is open....and then get brawled down.

Similarly, when running up against a laser boat...will he run very hot in a brawl? Or will he out trade me? Depends on how optimized his mech is...and if he has a second coolshot handy?

The dynamic of it all is very entertaining...but I'm a technical dude, an engineer, I like this kind of granularity and customizability.

I could see how someone who just wants to play...just play, no messing about, just play shooty stompy robots, how this can be annoying.

Heres an idea...maybe for those people above, PGI can have an auto skill system that will try to skill your chassis based on templated criteria.

Balanced: little bit of everything
Heat: heatgen + coolrun + cool shot
mobility: durability
ect ect ect...and just bias it toward whatever the user wants to lean toward...but automatically and consistently.

This way people that just wanna jump in and play... can just click and go.

Edited by Humpday, 30 May 2017 - 08:22 AM.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

So, for all those that can spec a mech in 2 minutes...how exactly did the new trees give us the diversity and customization that we were looking for if you're just using the same cookie-cutter builds for every mech? If you're not putting a little thought into what type of mech you are skilling up, what existing quirks it already has, how the engine desync affected its mobility, what kind of weapons you are likely to equip it with and what role you want it to have (brawl, long-range, etc.), then we should have just stuck with the old system and PGI's time could have been better spent elsewhere...like on new maps that we haven't had for 7-8 months.

Edited by Sarsaparilla Kid, 30 May 2017 - 03:40 PM.