Jump to content

Gauss Rifle Quirk/skill Tree Suggestion


8 replies to this topic

#1 Candy Pumpkin

    Rookie

  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 4 posts

Posted 08 June 2017 - 11:14 PM

First off, the Gauss Charge Extend nodes on the tree are somewhat nice, but the audio doesn't extend with it which can be off putting.

Anyway, my idea is to either replace the Gauss Charge Extend nodes with or add 2 Gauss Charge Reduction nodes, each with a -25% to the time it takes to bring the gauss rifle to full charge. The idea would be coupled with quirks that could cover the remaining 50% for a select few mechs that have a gauss rifle as a main weapon, and would therefore not have a charge time associated with it.

As an initial pass of mechs I felt should have a -50% Gauss Charge Reduction as a quirk in addition to the two nodes I looked at mechs that come stock with one gauss rifle without the ability to carry a second (In the case of omnimechs it would be an omnipod set bonus given the mech comes stock with one and the possibility of carrying a second would require changing an omnipod). The mechs I identified for this criteria were:

HBK-GI
NVA-C
SHC-Prime
SHC-P
LBK-B
MAD-BH2
ON1-P
ON1-IIC
ON1-IIC-B
AS7-K
CP-11-A
CP-11-A-DC
DWF-A
GAR-B
HGN-HM
HGN-732
HGN-732B
HGN-IIC
KDK-5
STK-M
VTR-DS
VTR-9K
WHK-B
ZEU-9S2

In addition to these I also considered the mechs that come stock with 2 gauss rifles and though a -25% charge quirk would be fair. It would be short with both nodes active, but not instant as to avoid the original reason the charge was added to the game. The few mechs I saw fit this (omnimechs require a set bonus as before) were:

MDD-C
NTG-B
CP-S
MAD-IIC-D

I feel this possible change would avoid the problems that were associated with gauss before the charge feature while allowing mechs built around the weapon to utilize it as they have before. Thoughts?

As a question on the side, with the gauss rifles requiring charging, why are the weapons still volatile when they're in a neutral state?

#2 Reno Blade

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blade
  • The Blade
  • 3,349 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 10 June 2017 - 01:32 AM

I would only give such quirks if the default charge time was over 1 second.
Anything below 0.5s makes the charge trivial.

Gauss needs the charge to be somehow skill-based balanced (the easier it is, the stronger the weapon, see laser vomit).

If you want some Gauss changes... I've also balanced Gauss in my megathread here together with all other weapons:
https://mwomercs.com...g-3060-weapons/


Ballistic Weapon specific changes:
  • E-6) Only 2x PPCs can be fired/charged at a time (Gauss can not be charged at the same time)
  • B-4) Only 1x Gauss can be charged at a time
  • B-5) When charging a Gauss, all energy weapon reloading is paused
  • B-6) Gauss CD is reduced (~20-30%, but Charge time and Charge-hold time is increased (~30-50%)
  • S-3) Add Skill Tree Nodes for Gauss charge speed (25% max)
- all ACs use more bullets which increases difficulty to bring all damage on targe
- Gauss requires longer charges which increases difficulty to use in brawl efficiently (might not be enough to prevent Gauss of beeing the only good PPFLD weapon)

From current Gauss with 5.0s cd, 0.75s charge, 1.25s charge hold, 1 heat to:
Gauss 3.5s cd, 2.0s charge, 2.0s charge hold, 2 heat
Light Gauss 3.0s cd, 1.5s charge, 1.5s charge hold, 1 heat
Heavy Gauss 4.0s cd, 2.5s charge, 2.5s charge hold, 3 heat


#3 Dr Cara Carcass

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Guillotine
  • Guillotine
  • 518 posts

Posted 13 June 2017 - 06:29 PM

View PostReno Blade, on 10 June 2017 - 01:32 AM, said:

I would only give such quirks if the default charge time was over 1 second.
Anything below 0.5s makes the charge trivial.

Gauss needs the charge to be somehow skill-based balanced (the easier it is, the stronger the weapon, see laser vomit).

If you want some Gauss changes... I've also balanced Gauss in my megathread here together with all other weapons:
https://mwomercs.com...g-3060-weapons/


Ballistic Weapon specific changes:
  • E-6) Only 2x PPCs can be fired/charged at a time (Gauss can not be charged at the same time)
  • B-4) Only 1x Gauss can be charged at a time
  • B-5) When charging a Gauss, all energy weapon reloading is paused
  • B-6) Gauss CD is reduced (~20-30%, but Charge time and Charge-hold time is increased (~30-50%)
  • S-3) Add Skill Tree Nodes for Gauss charge speed (25% max)
- all ACs use more bullets which increases difficulty to bring all damage on targe

- Gauss requires longer charges which increases difficulty to use in brawl efficiently (might not be enough to prevent Gauss of beeing the only good PPFLD weapon)

From current Gauss with 5.0s cd, 0.75s charge, 1.25s charge hold, 1 heat to:
Gauss 3.5s cd, 2.0s charge, 2.0s charge hold, 2 heat
Light Gauss 3.0s cd, 1.5s charge, 1.5s charge hold, 1 heat
Heavy Gauss 4.0s cd, 2.5s charge, 2.5s charge hold, 3 heat


play the gauss for a while and you wiull see how bad your suggestions are.

#4 Thrudvangar

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 622 posts

Posted 13 June 2017 - 10:10 PM

View PostCandy Pumpkin, on 08 June 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

Anyway, my idea is to either replace the Gauss Charge Extend nodes with or add 2 Gauss Charge Reduction nodes, each with a -25% to the time it takes to bring the gauss rifle to full charge. The idea would be coupled with quirks that could cover the remaining 50% for a select few mechs that have a gauss rifle as a main weapon, and would therefore not have a charge time associated with it.


Hell no!

#5 DeathCarlyle

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Mercenary Rank 4
  • Mercenary Rank 4
  • 37 posts
  • LocationNC

Posted 14 June 2017 - 04:39 AM

my only real complain about the guass is simple why have this weapon explode. The old Gauss that was always charged this made sense. but now it shouldn't blowup since you have to now manualy charge it

#6 Reno Blade

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blade
  • The Blade
  • 3,349 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 14 June 2017 - 01:11 PM

View PostCara Carcass, on 13 June 2017 - 06:29 PM, said:


play the gauss for a while and you wiull see how bad your suggestions are.

View PostW E N D I G O, on 14 June 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:


Would just amplify even more laser boating.

If anyone has a problem with the gauss+ppc combo you should be having a huge problem with IS laser burntimes as well since those equal near often zero when taking the chassis quirks, the skilltree bonuses plus the ping (to two of the 3 servers) into account and substract average human reaction time.

as i wrote, anything below 0.5s is meaningless. this is also true for laser burn time and partly affects cUACs.
I would have lasers burn between 1.0 and 2.0 seconds and pulse using lower damage bursts.

you have to bring lasers and gaus and ppc down on lower levels, not get everything up higher.
for more details read my megathread as posted above and in my sig.

#7 Dr Cara Carcass

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Guillotine
  • Guillotine
  • 518 posts

Posted 14 June 2017 - 04:24 PM

View PostReno Blade, on 14 June 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

as i wrote, anything below 0.5s is meaningless. this is also true for laser burn time and partly affects cUACs.
I would have lasers burn between 1.0 and 2.0 seconds and pulse using lower damage bursts.

you have to bring lasers and gaus and ppc down on lower levels, not get everything up higher.
for more details read my megathread as posted above and in my sig.


The Gauss has already been nerfed into the ground so that only a few specialized builds can use them. Any further nerf will remove it from the game especially since many other weapons got boosted.

I read the thread - its so faulty you need to play the gauss before you write such things.
You also need to learn how to play the game before you make your suggestions concering the balance.

What you write makes it clear, that you want to eliminate all skill elements from the game. Your suggestions would create a game where nobody who is not a parkinsons patien will ever miss a shot and the game is too slow. If you get those changes into the game i rather play turn based battletech games. The flaws of your idea have been pointed out inside the thread. Think about the feedback.

Edited by Cara Carcass, 14 June 2017 - 04:39 PM.


#8 Reno Blade

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blade
  • The Blade
  • 3,349 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 15 June 2017 - 03:51 AM

View PostCara Carcass, on 14 June 2017 - 04:24 PM, said:


The Gauss has already been nerfed into the ground so that only a few specialized builds can use them. Any further nerf will remove it from the game especially since many other weapons got boosted.

I read the thread - its so faulty you need to play the gauss before you write such things.
You also need to learn how to play the game before you make your suggestions concering the balance.

What you write makes it clear, that you want to eliminate all skill elements from the game. Your suggestions would create a game where nobody who is not a parkinsons patien will ever miss a shot and the game is too slow. If you get those changes into the game i rather play turn based battletech games. The flaws of your idea have been pointed out inside the thread. Think about the feedback.

oh you think im not playing gauss and have no idea about balance?
Using dual Gauss Whm, Gauss+PPC+ML Marauder and all sorts of combination for all other weapons (from vomit to crazy mixed builds).

but ofc you need to be careful to not overdo it.
i think you have it the wrong way for what i want and what would happen... removing skill, really?
if you have longer burn times, ac bursts and gauss charges, it would require much MORE skill to hit with 100% of the weapon.
just see how people view the cERLL or the cUAC20.
even wendigo sees it that way, that it would remove the only good ppfld weapon (speaks of the power of the weapon compared to others).

View PostW E N D I G O, on 15 June 2017 - 01:15 AM, said:

Also, in the wake of the introduction of new IS ballistics I think it's not helping your argument to nerf the only ppfld option for Clans (well if you take CUAC2/AC2 out of the pictur0e) even more when it isn't even used by IS anymore anyway. Seriously, I can't even remember when I did encounter an IS Mech with a Gauss weapon.

Since they have way better options and get even more of those better options all you would do is have a negative impact on the already lacking ability of Clan tech to do ppfld or focused damage. In one word: unnecessary.


so if the other changes i suggested bring the "better" options down (laser vomit) its going to be balanced.

#9 Dr Cara Carcass

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Guillotine
  • Guillotine
  • 518 posts

Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:17 AM

View PostReno Blade, on 15 June 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

oh you think im not playing gauss and have no idea about balance?
Using dual Gauss Whm, Gauss+PPC+ML Marauder and all sorts of combination for all other weapons (from vomit to crazy mixed builds).

but ofc you need to be careful to not overdo it.
i think you have it the wrong way for what i want and what would happen... removing skill, really?
if you have longer burn times, ac bursts and gauss charges, it would require much MORE skill to hit with 100% of the weapon.
just see how people view the cERLL or the cUAC20.
even wendigo sees it that way, that it would remove the only good ppfld weapon (speaks of the power of the weapon compared to others).



so if the other changes i suggested bring the "better" options down (laser vomit) its going to be balanced.


Wenn du deine Vorschläge durch bekommst ist das spiel so langsam das man auch einen Brennzeit von 10 sekunden problemlos auf dem gegner halten kann. Da können nur leute mit parkinson ins schwitzen kommen.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users