74 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

MrSomaru, on 12 June 2017 - 08:25 PM, said:

[...]
Due to the size, and the way cover is, it essentially pushes cowardice as a means of play. Rarely do I see my team mates push, even when I ask them to. I wind up doing suicide charges and my team is down an assault. As a brawler, team pushes are essential. If you don't push with your brawlers, you lose brawlers. I just don't like the map for its size and the tactics it seems to force players to take.
[...]
My two cents. Feel free to hate on me, lol.

There is cowardice and players being to hesitant in certain situations.
I even count myself among them at times.
BUT:
90% of the time, what brawlers perceive as "cowardice" is actually tactically versed playing. Using range, using cover, flanking (smartly!), establishing firing lines, denying enemies tactically important paths, etc.

There also are situations where a push into a brawl is required.
I do that, too, even with a long range build.
BUT:
90% of the brawlers I see are nothing but short-sighted suiciders with no tactical clue whatsoever.

I don't "hate" you. I pity you.
Please learn to understand tactical situations.
Please avoid doing the mindless suicide charges that you yourself speak of.
Please don't ruin the match for the people who play a tactical game properly.
It would improve not only my playing experience, but yours, too.

Edited by Paigan, 13 June 2017 - 01:49 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Polar isnt terrible as a brawler. Most laser vomiters and lurmers vote for it, which is a double edged sword.

There's plenty of cover to remain hidden and advance in in order to surprisebuttsecks the enemy. The more the cowards and the more stealthy your advance, the more confusion and panick you cause at the end of it.

Just don't march out into the open mashing 'w'. That's like walking the plank. Nothing good waits for you at the end.

[Ced Riggs]

Paigan, on 13 June 2017 - 01:48 AM, said:

Please don't ruin the match for the people who play a tactical game properly.

Communicate. One mech does not execute tactics.

You're as right or wrong as the other guy. If you don't agree to a plan as a group, all your tactics are worth squat. At the end of the day, the coordinated push, from the right position, with the right speed, and the right targets being called, is the most effective and simple tactic to deploy.

Flanking can work, but a flank that doesn't supplement a push is worthless.
Maneuvering is important, but maneuvering away from an enemy on puts your slower group members at risk.

If there is 6 brawlers that want to GO IN, and 6 crawlers that want to "tactically reposition", that's 12 dead mechs. Coordinate with your team, and don't pity them, look down on them or bash them. If you want to talk tactics and strategy, then start with knowing your team's options. Which is, incidentially, why pugging is such a chore at times.

[Paigan]

Ced Riggs, on 13 June 2017 - 02:12 AM, said:

Communicate. One mech does not execute tactics.

You're as right or wrong as the other guy. If you don't agree to a plan as a group, all your tactics are worth squat. At the end of the day, the coordinated push, from the right position, with the right speed, and the right targets being called, is the most effective and simple tactic to deploy.

Flanking can work, but a flank that doesn't supplement a push is worthless.
Maneuvering is important, but maneuvering away from an enemy on puts your slower group members at risk.

If there is 6 brawlers that want to GO IN, and 6 crawlers that want to "tactically reposition", that's 12 dead mechs. Coordinate with your team, and don't pity them, look down on them or bash them. If you want to talk tactics and strategy, then start with knowing your team's options. Which is, incidentially, why pugging is such a chore at times.

This might sound pragmatic, but it is actually too theoretical.
Trying to "coordinate" outside a unit usually ends badly. People start discussing, people don't follow JUST because someone else said it, etc.

Also, it isn't necessary at all.

With the tactical understanding I spoke of, there isn't much to coordinate at all in a game like MWO.
The terrain is always the same. The starting points and objectives are always the same. The basic game mechanic is always the same.
For example Crimson Straight: There's always the tunnel, the saddle and the platform. Every game I do the same thing and every game I lift more than my weight. I even carry the team lots of times. The game mechanics and the terrain define the best course of action. One just has to understand it.
In such a static scenario, coordination is only required to command fools: "Stay together." "Don't shoot your guys in the back" "Don't chase squirrels". Etc. All that goes without saying if one knows what to do.

So sorry, but I am not as right or wrong as the other guy.
Know the Mechs.
Know the weapons.
Know the terrain.
Know basic tactical elemens (like the concept of "choke points", which I literally have to explain in EVERY match)
Then you know what to do.
And suicidal brawls are not a part of it.

Edited by Paigan, 13 June 2017 - 02:29 AM.

[Ced Riggs]

Paigan, on 13 June 2017 - 02:28 AM, said:

And suicidal brawls are not a part of it.

Neither is leaving your brawlers to die, or not barreling in on a push. A grouped push, even when made from an inferior position, is still more powerful than you "tactically positioning" yourself and letting half of your team die. Commitment to your team mates goes a longer way than, well, not.

That is my point entirely.

Is it a dumb idea to charge across open terrain into a firing line? Yes. You're right, he's wrong (very generalized speaking). But it's an even worse idea to let the charging elements die by themselves, then die as your enemy has the numbers now. If everyone goes with the push, your chances of individual survival and team victory increase. That is where you are wrong, and he is right (again, generalized).

And that is also, as we both agree, the crux of pug play. If everyone had perfect map awareness and knowledge, no one would be caught out of position, doing solo suicide charges or leave their assaults behind to die. But that isn't the case, now is it? You have to deal with the reality of pugs being, on average, bad. And you can only make use of them as meat shields, ablative hitpoints and distractions. Six good players hiding in a push of six bad players can turn a game and win. Six bad players dying leave six good players dying afterwards.

[Burke IV]

Lol yes polar does make you ask that question... do i want to sit here at 1000km? or should i get my *** forward where... oh no... there might be a gap in your cover. Do you feel afraid when those high walls of canyon arnt there? good thats what its supposed to be. Polar wants you to be aggressive.

[MisterSomaru]

funny story, my impatience literally won the match one time. My team and the other team were content to waggle lightsabers at each other during an assault match, and I went screw this, said "Hey. I'm bored. gonna go cap the enemy base." To which I got a "Fine. go die then". I walked my warhammer (with a stock 280) the long way around, to their base.... And capped it. Nobody had died. it was 10 minutes in.

Edited by MrSomaru, 13 June 2017 - 06:50 AM.

[Captain Polux]

I hate it because the map is chosen every other game.

[Coolant]

I don't really like it either, although I like it better than Alpine. At least on Polar you have lanes and paths between hills for cover...Alpine you have little or no cover and I prefer brawling.

[Gwahlur]

Some days I'm getting really close to just flat out disconnecting when we get polar lurmlands, like many others do.
Still havent though

[P10k56]

Probably best map without claustrophobic glory ride rushes.
Still pretty manageable even for CQC mechs thanks to terrain waves.

[Damnedtroll]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 12 June 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

I don't think any of the maps are bad in and of themselves. I just wish there were more of them, so I wouldn't have to play on the same 3 all night. It really burns me out.

This game needs about 6 more maps, pronto.

Also, random map/mode selection, please.

yep add the old map with just skirmish, assault and conquest mode, not a lot of works for pgi...

Edited by Damnedtroll, 13 June 2017 - 08:27 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Actually I think Polar is one of the best maps in the game but with one major flaw. No hard cover from LRMs.

The reason I think it is the best map is because the battles are all what I call Free-form meaning there isn't one dominating point on the map that everyone ends up fighting over or around, nor are there any mechanisms that channel players into contested choke points. Another is its large size. Basically the size of the map means teams actually have to send out scouts to find them enemy. Additionally a few light scouts sent the opposite direction of the main force can misdirect the enemy allowing the main force to flank. Then the battles just sort of happen where they will, all over the map and anyplace on the map where the two teams find each other. This is perfect because it lacks the redundancy that fighting at the Citadel or Tunnel or whatever promotes.

The Flaw as I mentioned is the lack of and hard cover from LRMs. There is no way to escape from a UAV or NARC, no place to hide at all and your only defense is breaking LOS, where every enemy. However without radar dep, even this isn't really all that effective any more.

However if they took Polar, threw in a bunch of rock formations, ice blocks, Deep trench sections, basically a fair amount of hard cover to run to when the LRMs started flying, then the map would be amazing.

[Baba Yogi]

this map is the best map in the game imo, and for a good reason picked regularly. No match is ever fought in same place twice unless it is dominion mode. Every match is different, your tactics change solely based on your surroundings, and map lets you do what u need to fluidly. In most other maps, both teams gather around set 1 or 2 locations and then you play the same engagement but with different mechs and pilots. When matches play out exactly the same you get bored much more quickly, there is no such thing in Polar Highlands.

Viktor Drake, on 13 June 2017 - 09:04 AM, said:

Actually I think Polar is one of the best maps in the game but with one major flaw. No hard cover from LRMs.

The reason I think it is the best map is because the battles are all what I call Free-form meaning there isn't one dominating point on the map that everyone ends up fighting over or around, nor are there any mechanisms that channel players into contested choke points. Another is its large size. Basically the size of the map means teams actually have to send out scouts to find them enemy. Additionally a few light scouts sent the opposite direction of the main force can misdirect the enemy allowing the main force to flank. Then the battles just sort of happen where they will, all over the map and anyplace on the map where the two teams find each other. This is perfect because it lacks the redundancy that fighting at the Citadel or Tunnel or whatever promotes.

The Flaw as I mentioned is the lack of and hard cover from LRMs. There is no way to escape from a UAV or NARC, no place to hide at all and your only defense is breaking LOS, where every enemy. However without radar dep, even this isn't really all that effective any more.

However if they took Polar, threw in a bunch of rock formations, ice blocks, Deep trench sections, basically a fair amount of hard cover to run to when the LRMs started flying, then the map would be amazing.

Be careful how you tempt fate mate, whenever PGI reworked a map, it turned out for the worse. Forest Colony(who plays it anymore), viridian bog, frozen city etc. I would much rather they keep it as is and work on a new map. And ******* bring back 8v8!

[xe N on]

The problem is not the map. The problem is the bad game design.

You shouldn't be able to choose or vote for a map. You should able to choose from a drop deck after random map selection.

Polar is fun if you are long range but totally makes short range builds want to disconnect.

Edited by xe N on, 13 June 2017 - 11:10 AM.

[Bud Crue]

xe N on, on 13 June 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

You shouldn't be able to choose or vote for a map.

What is this map voting thing some of you are on about?

There is no need to vote.
You want Alpine or Polar? Just take an Atlas or a Dire. Boom...Alpine or Polar will be a near guarantee.
Got an itch to play Mining or Crimson? Well, just load up on some LRMS. Make sure to run those missiles with no jump jets and then Bog is almost assured instead.
Feeling like a little HPG action? Short range ballistics or SRMs is what you want to bring...and it helps if you drop in a mech without jump jets, but be warned you also might get Canyon as a result of that decision.
Need Tourmaline? Just run your hottest mech, but it helps if it is really slow too.
Rather have Terra? Your hottest Assault is a virtual guarantee...especially if it has reduced leg armor.

So you keep on "voting" if you think it helps, but I usually know which 1-2 maps I will be getting as soon as I select my mechs...

...well at least that how it feels to me!

[xe N on]

Bud Crue, on 13 June 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

What is this map voting thing some of you are on about?

There is no need to vote.

I don't know why you quote me, because I'm AGAINST any form of map vote or selection.

It kills even immersion. As if you would be able to choose the battle field ...

Clans: "Greeting, Freeborn. We will occupy this planet. Prepare to die"
IS: "Ha, fifthly Clanner, not so fast, we will kick your a** from our home-planet"
Clans: "Ok, than we shall fight!"
IS: "Yeah, we wait for you in the jungle!"
Clans: "No, that is inacceptable. We choose to drop in the frozen dessert in your northern ice caps!"
IS "No way. We only have short range weapons cause our scientist fail to build some with acceptable range! ... hm ... okay, I have the perfect idea! Lets vote for the battle field"

<Vote counter blimps>

Clans: "No way! 13 to 11 for the jungle map! Impossible! In Kerensky's name, who from my team name voted for the jungle?!"
A Clansman in the background "Uhm ... sorry ... I did ... look, I drop with a 12 C-SPL Nova and this ice map suck for short range ..."


Yous simply should be able to pre-configure a drop deck of 4 mechs, e.g. LRM, Brawler, Gauss/Laser, and Dakka

If now Terra Therma is randomly selected, you take your dakka build. If Alpine is selected, you take your LRM build. And so on.

Edited by xe N on, 13 June 2017 - 12:10 PM.

[HammerMaster]

So OP is saying it is not the map. It's the ppl. SO......

[Angel of Annihilation]

Lordhammer, on 13 June 2017 - 10:21 AM, said:

this map is the best map in the game imo, and for a good reason picked regularly. No match is ever fought in same place twice unless it is dominion mode. Every match is different, your tactics change solely based on your surroundings, and map lets you do what u need to fluidly. In most other maps, both teams gather around set 1 or 2 locations and then you play the same engagement but with different mechs and pilots. When matches play out exactly the same you get bored much more quickly, there is no such thing in Polar Highlands.



Be careful how you tempt fate mate, whenever PGI reworked a map, it turned out for the worse. Forest Colony(who plays it anymore), viridian bog, frozen city etc. I would much rather they keep it as is and work on a new map. And ******* bring back 8v8!

I actually enjoy most of those maps to be honest though they all have the same issue that I speak up. Forest Colony has one area where all the mechs gather, basically that series of 3 hills right in the center. If the terrain was more broken up and less challenged to that one area, the map would be amazingly fun. Virdian again the same issue. The fight always takes place around those two high mountainous plateaus. If they got rid of the dominating features, the battles would take place all over the map and be alot more fun. Frozen City gets ruined by the big open bowl in the middle which generally forces snipefests across the bowl rather than more fluid fights. However when the fighting get into one of the city sections on either side, the brawl is amazing. If they would just flatten out the bowl and add in tons of building or hell just add in tons of building in the bowl so you had cover when crossing it, the map would be tons more fun. River City would be alot more fun if it was just City without the River and without the Citadel.

Honestly that it the problem with virtually all the maps. Too many dominating terrain features and/or too much channeling of movement into choke points or very exposed areas. Mechs like real life Tanks don't like fighting in those areas. They are mobile weapon platforms and they want to be able to fire and move and honestly just like tanks would tend to avoid the type of maps we see in game if at all possible. I mean I think PGI and maybe most other people forget that your typical mech regiment is supported by tons of infantry and vehicles just like an Armored regiment does today. Those are the units that move in an hold/take these crazy map, not mechs. Hell I can only imagine what a company of infantry carrying around shoulder fired inferno missiles could do to mechs trying to operate in those tight canyons on Canyon Network, I know it wouldn't be pretty.

[Prototelis]

I would't hate this map so much if it didn't have sunny ice fog.

Sometimes its impossible to see without heat vision, and heat vision kind of sucks.