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Anyone Else Disappointing With The Pc Bt Beta Footage?


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#1 Kaptain

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 01:13 PM

I was initially very excited for this game but after watching some beta footage I just cant get excited for it. I generally prefer RTS to turned based games but a video simulation of BT sounded awesome. That is until I realized there is no heat scale in PC BT... Heat scale penalties are a huge part of BT and its removal just feels very lazy and dumbed-down to me. Special abilities get a big meh from me. The Current state of the graphics leaves a lot to be desired. Impacts, explosions and damage visuals/sounds just don't feel satisfying. The hit point/damage number change feels pointless and arbitrary. And finally the damage display dolls are some of the worst we have ever had. MWOs are pretty decent and intuitive, Mech commanders were great, but these PC BT damage dolls are plain jane, boring and just feel lazy lazy.
Anyways as I have heard nothing but praise so far I am curious if anyone else feels let down by the beta footage? And if any of these issues are deal breakers for anyone else?

Edited by Kaptain, 15 June 2017 - 01:36 PM.


#2 Metus regem

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 04:45 PM

Having access to it, I can tell you that the damage models are just as good as they are in MWO, since the mechs are MWO models. When your mech is running hot in the BT beta you can see steam coming off of it, when damaged you see electricity bouncing around on it.... By the way, all of that happens on medium details as that is where my laptop likes to run it.

#3 Karl Streiger

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Posted 15 June 2017 - 08:39 PM

As said those hitboxes are the same - they make more sense in BT but in MWO
The damage numbers are OK just multipled with 5 and just maybe added extra damage for known fast firing guns (ACs 2-10s and medium laser) to evade a TT balance breaker.
The finer damage numbers are fine would be better if mwo would use the same (float damage 9.4 rather 9 or 10 could do nice things)

#4 RAM

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:58 AM

View PostKaptain, on 15 June 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

That is until I realized there is no heat scale in PC BT... Heat scale penalties are a huge part of BT and its removal just feels very lazy and dumbed-down to me.

Your incorrect conclusion results in your analysis being fundamentally flawed.


RAM
ELH

#5 Almond Brown

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:21 AM

Apparently Watching it and actually Playing the Beta provide 2 very distinct and separate views. Although many are still asking for more heat "levels" the Dev tried that and found it was just a disincentive to FUN. Seeing as their goal, as with most Game Dev's, is provide the player FUN and not pointless tedium ad nausea, it seems they have chosen correctly and not lazily.

What is truly Lazy is some Armchair Dev belittling the game based on some Youtube videos before trying it LIVE ffs. :(

#6 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 02:15 PM

View PostRAM, on 28 June 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

Your incorrect conclusion results in your analysis being fundamentally flawed.


RAM
ELH

No kidding, how am I overheating cooking things off and shutting down. Did someone pull the cord? :)

#7 Karl Streiger

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 09:59 PM

View PostTarl Cabot, on 28 June 2017 - 02:15 PM, said:

No kidding, how am I overheating cooking things off and shutting down. Did someone pull the cord? Posted Image

When your Mech overheat you take structural damage (like in MWO - but on all locations) and of course your Mech shuts down.
Have run the ButterBee - that guy cooks of as soon as you triggered an Alpha strike - also very nasty the Flammer on firestarter - it really was able to overheat my cool running wolverine (that guy is an asset - thanks for the working AC5)

#8 Kaptain

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 04:37 PM

View PostMetus regem, on 15 June 2017 - 04:45 PM, said:

Having access to it, I can tell you that the damage models are just as good as they are in MWO, since the mechs are MWO models. When your mech is running hot in the BT beta you can see steam coming off of it, when damaged you see electricity bouncing around on it.... By the way, all of that happens on medium details as that is where my laptop likes to run it.


I said damage dolls not mech models. You know the HUD damage display dolls? Mech warriors are full color. Mech commander are full color and show each mech modeled on the doll along with internal components.

#9 Kaptain

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 04:43 PM

View PostRAM, on 28 June 2017 - 04:58 AM, said:

Your incorrect conclusion results in your analysis being fundamentally flawed.


RAM
ELH

Perhaps you're to quick to want to tell someone they are wrong before trying to understand their perspective, even if you disagree?

Now maybe "no" was a bad word choice but I kinda doubt you didn't understand the intent of the sentence. In BT you suffer multiple movement and targeting penalties as you run hotter. It also become more and more likely you will suffer an ammo explosion or shut down(17 point penalty system) As best I can tell there are no movement penalties or targeting penalties in PC BT and the shutdown/ammo explosion range is pretty narrow, correct? Something like 3points from the 17point battle tech heat scale? Can you not understand why this feels like a dumbing down of the original rule set to me?

Edited by Kaptain, 20 July 2017 - 02:49 AM.


#10 Kaptain

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 05:00 PM

View PostAlmond Brown, on 28 June 2017 - 08:21 AM, said:

Apparently Watching it and actually Playing the Beta provide 2 very distinct and separate views. Although many are still asking for more heat "levels" the Dev tried that and found it was just a disincentive to FUN. Seeing as their goal, as with most Game Dev's, is provide the player FUN and not pointless tedium ad nausea, it seems they have chosen correctly and not lazily.

What is truly Lazy is some Armchair Dev belittling the game based on some Youtube videos before trying it LIVE ffs. :(


Belittling? Expressing an opinion more like. You take so much offense I don't like exactly the same things you like. As for trying it I'm not really sold on it (thus my post) but I'd love to try it. Did you just want to gift me a copy, PayPal the money, money order? Lmk, looking forward to it.

#11 qS Sachiel

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:29 PM

I haven't played the bets recently but heat was a bit of a joke generally speaking. Cooking off has never happened to me, and the majority of times I shutdown, even though I take damage internally, the percentage is minute. The biggest issue is that once **** down you lose two turns. One of those turns, the entire can fire a 'called shot' targeting any component they wish, with an increase to hit chance.

The damage model is fine. It shows armour, internal, as well as weapons on which component. There is also an 'at a glance' aggregate health and armour bar above each mech's head to get a quick idea of how much life they have left.

#12 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:15 AM

View PostKaptain, on 15 June 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

I was initially very excited for this game but after watching some beta footage I just cant get excited for it. I generally prefer RTS to turned based games but a video simulation of BT sounded awesome. That is until I realized there is no heat scale in PC BT... Heat scale penalties are a huge part of BT and its removal just feels very lazy and dumbed-down to me. Special abilities get a big meh from me. The Current state of the graphics leaves a lot to be desired. Impacts, explosions and damage visuals/sounds just don't feel satisfying. The hit point/damage number change feels pointless and arbitrary. And finally the damage display dolls are some of the worst we have ever had. MWOs are pretty decent and intuitive, Mech commanders were great, but these PC BT damage dolls are plain jane, boring and just feel lazy lazy.
Anyways as I have heard nothing but praise so far I am curious if anyone else feels let down by the beta footage? And if any of these issues are deal breakers for anyone else?



I have been enjoying the Beta so far rather immensely. It feels like MechCommander meets XCOM to me, and that is a huge win for me personally. That said...

Sometimes watching other people play a game, doesn't do the game justice then it comes to the details or depth. People quickly select things and gloss over things when they play (because they know it) and that doesn't allow the viewer (someone especially new to the experience) to see everything that is going on. That is why I want to break down a few things from the quote above and maybe add some additional info about those criticisms.

I can't say I agree with the opinion that the game looks underwhelming. The game looks rather amazing to me. The explosions and lighting is very nice. Limbs fly off when they are destroyed, flamers look like spraying napalm, and the mech detail is exceptional.

Check out the screenshots made by fans in this thread on the BattleTech game forum. There are some excellent examples of how well the game looks...
https://community.ba...ms/threads/8334

Posted Image

Not to mention those animations....so good.
Posted Image

There is multiple effects heat can apply to a mech in the BattleTech game. Not only does overheating cause damage to internals (similar to MWO), running hot also creates a to-hit penalty of +1. To see the modifier applied, see the video below at the 27:39 mark...


There is also shutdown as well, which does leave the shutdown mech open to called shots. To call it a heat scale is not probably accurate, however as heat climbs, it affects multiple things on a mech. It is not a one-to-one to TT, however neither is MWO's and MechCommander didn't even take heat into account. The heat effects in BattleTech may be more simplified than TT, however it is still impactful in multiple ways.

There is a point to the value change for Battletech. The values being increased (I believe it is x5) is done for things like weapon balancing. That way a weapon's values can be balanced in much smaller increments (especially good for lower damage weapons). If an A/C5 does 25dmg instead, it is easier to make small buffs to an A/C5 incrementally to say 27 dmg, where leaving it at 5 means it goes to 6 dmg or 4 dmg. (keep in mind, armor and internals are also increased x5 to accommodate this.

Lastly, the paper doll does communicate a lot of data to the player. It may seem rather plain to look at, however it does communicate a good amount of data. Just a lot of that data is on mouse-over.

The paper doll uses different shades of grey for armor and orange for internals for info at a glance. There is also a bar above that shows the general amount of internals undamaged and amount of armor left
Posted Image

When you mouse over a part of the paper doll you are interested in, it give a much more detailed breakdown. It shows the numerical amount of armor and internals left in that location. It also shows what is mounted in that location as well. Also, if weapons are damaged or destroyed, it shows that as well (both in general view and mouse over).
Posted Image

The paper doll may seem a bit boring to some visually because it is more monochrome, but it isn't lazy. It communicates the necessary information that it needs to.

Like I had mentioned in the beginning, not everything is easily seen when watching people play. There is often a lot more information that is subtle or isn't always looked over in detail with videos. Sometimes you need to visit the game's website and look at how things are done in more detail. This goes for any game. I do hope this post helps explains some things though. At the least, it shows off some beautiful mech screen shots :D.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 08 September 2017 - 07:18 AM.


#13 eWrecked Pianist

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 01:50 PM

I think what excites me most about the BT game is that it'll help clarify the endgame for MW:O. PGI's had to ride a fine line between FPS and TT for a long time. If the TT fans flock to the new BT game, then PGI can start to polish the FPS end of things a bit for MW:O, making it a little more fun for that crowd. Once the "target demographic" becomes a little clearer, both products and work to cater to their specific fanbases.

#14 ice trey

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Posted 06 October 2017 - 01:18 AM

View PostKaptain, on 15 June 2017 - 01:13 PM, said:

very lazy and dumbed-down

You've pretty much defined the tastes of the gaming community, both electronic and tabletop, for the past 15 years or more.

However, I've played real tabletop for years now, and the heat scale doesn't really matter much to me, either, because once the age of ER and DHS came around, nickel-and-diming the heat-scale doesn't happen unless you've got a mech designed to ride the heat scale like a Ti-Ts'ang. It's more of an "oh, firing the extra PPC means I overheat by 15 points" situation. How the heat scale works is less an issue to me than making sure there's a cap to how much heat you can generate in a turn before bad things start to happen.

Edited by ice trey, 06 October 2017 - 01:23 AM.


#15 Karl Streiger

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Posted 01 November 2017 - 11:39 PM

still wondering when i get my campaign - don't give a damn about MP

#16 MeiSooHaityu

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Posted 08 November 2017 - 04:33 AM

View PostKarl Streiger, on 01 November 2017 - 11:39 PM, said:

still wondering when i get my campaign - don't give a damn about MP


There is currently no official date confirmed, but HBS's target is early 2018.





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