44 replies to this topic

[Summon3r]

...wow a little heavy with the nerf bat swing there Paul? As usual.

was this a stealth nerf to the extremely popular GAR that has a wide variety of build options?

[FupDup]

Gonna have to switch to the CERSL or MPL for a while, at least until those get nerfed themselves. Definitely expect the CERSL to fall within a few months.

[The6thMessenger]

Pulse Lasers are heavier, shouldn't they have at least a leg up other lighter weapons? The nerf sounds like they are leveling the SPLs considering the roles only.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 17 June 2017 - 10:02 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Definitely swapping my 5 SPL cheetah for the 6 ERSL one, used to be a trade off of more range and 2 tons less weight for one or more DPS. Now the only reason to really keep the SPL is for dealing with light mechs with how short their durations are, but honestly with the ghost heat kicking in at 4x6 (24) damage instead of the old 36, they aren't even nearly as good at that anymore, so the 30 damage for 3 tons of guns seems much better for hit and run tactics than 24 for 6 tons of gun.


CERLL might be a bit better now due to the shorter durations, the few split seconds longer on the cooldown shouldn't matter too much since they weren't used for DPS much anyway. C-LPL seems somewhat questionable with it being 2 tons heavier with only one point more damage per shot, even with the bonus DPS and shorter durations, its still a better deal to just go with a single ERLL and back it up with a ERML or two, that or just bring 6 ERML instead of one LPL.


It really feels a lot like PGI tried balancing standard vs pulse lasers without accounting for pulse lasers being much heavier.

[Andi Nagasia]

Summon3r, on 17 June 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

...wow a little heavy with the nerf bat swing there Paul? As usual.

was this a stealth nerf to the extremely popular GAR that has a wide variety of build options?

Balance is now up to Chris not Paul now, as per Russ on Twitter,

Twitter said:

Adam Nielsen‏ @Gryphorim
@russ_bullock Can you shed some light on energy rebalance? Any weapon roles being redefined? any new mechanics? Or just tweaking numbers?

Russ Bullock‏ @russ_bullock
Chris has been given the keys to the kingdom so to speak as long as the stats and data continue to support the path we are on,so far they do

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 17 June 2017 - 07:11 PM.

[Imperius]

Who killed Chris with engine weapons while turning too fast in their assault?

[Summon3r]

Andi Nagasia, on 17 June 2017 - 07:08 PM, said:

Balance is now up to Chris not Paul now, as per Russ on Twitter,

great so PGI just keeps putting in balance people that swing for the fences as opposed to making "iterative" (like they say) changes. from 6 to 4 is a sweeping change/nerf

[Monkey Lover]

Dakota1000, on 17 June 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

Definitely swapping my 5 SPL cheetah for the 6 ERSL one, used to be a trade off of more range and 2 tons less weight for one or more DPS. Now the only reason to really keep the SPL is for dealing with light mechs with how short their durations are, but honestly with the ghost heat kicking in at 4x6 (24) damage instead of the old 36, they aren't even nearly as good at that anymore, so the 30 damage for 3 tons of guns seems much better for hit and run tactics than 24 for 6 tons of gun.

If you run a cheater with 5spl not much has changed for you just put on the 6th one.....

Ghost heat isn't that big of a deal with only one more weapon as they're already less heat now. You could even run a 7th without much issue if you drop the ecm.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 17 June 2017 - 09:39 PM.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Monkey Lover, on 17 June 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

If you run a cheater with 5spl not much has changed for you just put on the 6th one.....

Ghost heat isn't that big of a deal with only one more weapon as they're already less heat now. You could even run a 7th without much issue if you drop the ecm.

If I run a cheetah with 5 SPL, it has both lower DPS and higher HPS than before. If I want to add a 6th laser I have to cut out another heatsink, at which point I'll have 24 damage and unsustainable heat levels. Basically I would be spending an extra ton on my weapons, I'd have 6 damage less per alpha strike, I'd have nearly 2 HPS more than before, and my DPS would be cut by about 0.75.

Heat only dropped by 0.3, but the cooldowns and damage also dropped. This means they are much less efficient with their damage than before and they actually generate *more* HPS, as the heat drop didn't account for the cooldown decrease, and the huge damage cut makes the DPS pale in comparison.

Heat levels already were hot on the Cheetah, throwing on 2 extra CSPLs to have 7, all so I can still have 2 damage less than before, and being able to only alpha maybe one or two times before having to run away due to the heat combined with ghost heat penalties just makes the CSPL option worthless.

I'll definitely be going with the ERSL and have 3 tons of weapons for 30 damage. Honestly I most likely just won't be using the Cheetah much, rather I'll bring the Wolfhound with 6 MPLs, now that they are buffed all over and the Wolfhounds have super armor its really not even a competition between the two. Heck, an Urban mech with its 4 MPL and a couple machine guns ontop of its super armor quirks is better than a Cheetah now.

[JC Daxion]

Well i will just wait and see how it all plays out. If the ACH runs a little hotter, i am not all that worried, it runs hot anyway.. It's still a fantastic mech.

As for the 12 Pulse Nova, I rather them do this, than nerf the nova in some other way, because there are lots of energy builds on it that are nice, but are NOT OP.


Like all changes i'll just wait and see how it all plays out.

[9thDeathscream]

Keep boating those weapons and PGI will keep nerfing.

[Mystere]

Kharonn, on 17 June 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:

Keep boating those weapons and PGI will keep nerfing.

Yes, because lights are very effective using only a pair of those. Or is that even too much?

Edited by Mystere, 17 June 2017 - 10:11 PM.

[Nightbird]

They just forgot that pulse lasers are heavier, that's all. It's not such an important fact if you think about it.

[jjm1]

Half the problem isn't the weapons. Its the mechs that use them. Is it the SPL that's getting the numbers, or the ACH?

[Monkey Lover]

Dakota1000, on 17 June 2017 - 09:51 PM, said:

If I run a cheetah with 5 SPL, it has both lower DPS and higher HPS than before. If I want to add a 6th laser I have to cut out another heatsink, at which point I'll have 24 damage and unsustainable heat levels. Basically I would be spending an extra ton on my weapons, I'd have 6 damage less per alpha strike, I'd have nearly 2 HPS more than before, and my DPS would be cut by about 0.75.

Heat only dropped by 0.3, but the cooldowns and damage also dropped. This means they are much less efficient with their damage than before and they actually generate *more* HPS, as the heat drop didn't account for the cooldown decrease, and the huge damage cut makes the DPS pale in comparison.

Heat levels already were hot on the Cheetah, throwing on 2 extra CSPLs to have 7, all so I can still have 2 damage less than before, and being able to only alpha maybe one or two times before having to run away due to the heat combined with ghost heat penalties just makes the CSPL option worthless.

I'll definitely be going with the ERSL and have 3 tons of weapons for 30 damage. Honestly I most likely just won't be using the Cheetah much, rather I'll bring the Wolfhound with 6 MPLs, now that they are buffed all over and the Wolfhounds have super armor its really not even a competition between the two. Heck, an Urban mech with its 4 MPL and a couple machine guns ontop of its super armor quirks is better than a Cheetah now.

Guess that depends on how you run it. I never found the 6 cspl that bad. Once we got 2 coolshots It was really easy haha.

I think i will go with the 7 spl for now and see what happens with heavy machineguns.

[Monkey Lover]

jjm1, on 17 June 2017 - 10:15 PM, said:

Half the problem isn't the weapons. Its the mechs that use them. Is it the SPL that's getting the numbers, or the ACH?

Nova,crow,hunch2c,linebacker,gargoyle and the executioner all had very heavy spl builds.

When you could boat 6-7+ of these it was deadly in range. I bet this popped up on the spread sheet. Of course the "in range" would be key

Edited by Monkey Lover, 17 June 2017 - 10:23 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

JC Daxion, on 17 June 2017 - 10:01 PM, said:

Well i will just wait and see how it all plays out. If the ACH runs a little hotter, i am not all that worried, it runs hot anyway.. It's still a fantastic mech.

As for the 12 Pulse Nova, I rather them do this, than nerf the nova in some other way, because there are lots of energy builds on it that are nice, but are NOT OP.


Like all changes i'll just wait and see how it all plays out.

I guess it depends how you term OP, but measure their damage/dps potential vs the rest of the medium class (even vs most heavies and some assaults) and you see why some might argue the nova is a bit OP. It's not the only one though, it is just one of those mechs that is meant to have the strong specific attributes like that (ideally at the cost of weaknesses elsewhere), kind of like the linebacker, a mediums/lights speed in heavy armor etc.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Monkey Lover, on 17 June 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

Guess that depends on how you run it. I never found the 6 cspl that bad. Once we got 2 coolshots It was really easy haha.

I think i will go with the 7 spl for now and see what happens with heavy machineguns.

Guess that's it then, I never use coolshots ever. I always build my mechs to have good enough sustain damage to get the job done as to not rely on them at all. I'd hate to have a build that is too hot and only have a couple coolshots, not to mention wasting all that money each match.

[Monkey Lover]

Dakota1000, on 17 June 2017 - 10:49 PM, said:

Guess that's it then, I never use coolshots ever. I always build my mechs to have good enough sustain damage to get the job done as to not rely on them at all. I'd hate to have a build that is too hot and only have a couple coolshots, not to mention wasting all that money each match.

I used to build them hot and now with the extra one i build them even hotter lol. I have found in most cases its the mech who can get the largest alpha on target the fastest is the one to win.

As for say the cheater and ghost heat in most cases i would fire 3 then 4 . I would only do all 7 if i had too or knew it didnt matter.

If i need dps i will go with ac weapons.

I agree its a waste of cbills but im at the point i have everything i need.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 17 June 2017 - 11:04 PM.

[Dee Eight]

Open a battletech manual...the changes are to bring all the mucked up values closer to the lore. Pulse lasers are NOT supposed to be more ridiculously more damage than heat per ton than regular or ER lasers.

Inner Sphere...

Small laser 1 heat for 3 damage, medium laser is 3 heat for 5, large is 8 for 8.
ERSL is 2 for 3, ERML is 5 for 5, ERLL is 12 for 8.
SPL is 2 for 3, MPL is 4 for 6 and LPL is 10 for 9.

Clan...

ER lasers... micro 1 for 2, small 2 for 5, med 5 for 7 and large 12 for 10
Pulse lasers... micro 1 for 3, small 2 for 3, medium 4 for 7 and large 10 for 10.
Heavy lasers.... small 3 for 6, medium 7 for 10 and large 18 for 16.


ERGO.... you cannot very well bring in a heavy small laser at 3 heat for 6 damage if the small pulse laser is exactly the same heat/damage stats already.