21 replies to this topic

[Jamico]

Can you good people help me understand SRM's a little better? I just don't see the point of them. They are short range, they run hot, don't have pinpoint accuracy (shotgun affect), and they don't do a whole lot of damage (6 points, at most). Now, I'm not starting yet another SRM vs LRM debate. I know why people think LRM's are evil. I get that, so let's not go there in this thread. However, why would I want SRM's instead of lasers or ballistics? Outside of "I want more brawling weapons and I only have missile slots left", what would be the strategic advantage of SRM's?
PS, sorry for all caps in the title. It should have read "Why SRM's?". Too bad I couldn't edit the title.

Edited by Jamico, 24 June 2017 - 08:47 AM.

[Rainer Frost]

It is a matter of playstyle.
Generally people want to avoid facing the enemy for too long in fear of retaliation.
Therefore medium laser, while weighting less, are a mixed bag as you're expected to hold the beam on the enemy until the very end to deal full damage.
Ballistics are usually better as you can scurry back to cover, or simply twist your torso after the shot, but the weight of most autocannons restricts their use to either heavier chassis or forces a player to pick just a single one.
SRMs are the sweet spot there.
Yes, you'll hit multiple components, but the weight is the deciding factor as a single IS SRM6 weights mere three tons.

Edited by Rainer Frost, 24 June 2017 - 09:03 AM.

[John1352]

IS SRMs do 2.3 (another edit, got number wrong, it is 2.15) damage per missile, clan ones 2. They're very effective at making giant holes in enemies at point blank range.

Here's TheB33F using some:



Edit: This one shows the fire then twist to protect the CT better:

Edited by John1352, 26 June 2017 - 05:35 AM.

[Cato Phoenix]

SRMs actually do much more damage than 6 at most.

IS SRMs do 2.15 per missile, and CSRMs do 2 damage per missile. So an SRM6 delivers 12.9 damage, a CSRM6 12 damage, just for 4 heat. The DPS on missiles is generally much higher than lasers. Mechs will generally take 2-4 SRM packs, sometimes more. My ARC-5W runs 8 SRM4s. Thats 8x4x2.15= 68.8 points of damage, and can be staggered just enough to account for ghost heat.

And while they do spread damage, they do burst damage. You don't have to deal with keeping lasers on target - you fire and forget. Good players can generally aim them well enough at range to impact in the right area. They're excellent brawling weapons.

And up close? Ask a Griffin or a Maddog SRM boat what it does up close.

[Koniving]

Jamico, on 24 June 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Can you good people help me understand SRM's a little better? I just don't see the point of them. They are short range, they run hot, don't have pinpoint accuracy (shotgun affect), and they don't do a whole lot of damage (6 points, at most). Now, I'm not starting yet another SRM vs LRM debate. I know why people think LRM's are evil. I get that, so let's not go there in this thread. However, why would I want SRM's instead of lasers or ballistics? Outside of "I want more brawling weapons and I only have missile slots left", what would be the strategic advantage of SRM's?
PS, sorry for all caps in the title. It should have read "Why SRM's?". Too bad I couldn't edit the title.

Is this specifically about MWO or Battletech as a whole?

If MWO...
(Note: Damage numbers below do NOT reflect PGI's constantly changing damage values but instead the stock damage values of the source material.)

Reasonably fast firing rate. Much higher than lasers though not quite as fast as ballistics. Very good damage to weight to heat ratio (For their weight they deliver very good damage for considerably lower heat compared to lasers). They cause both screen shake and blur on the enemy. For the weight of a single AC/2, you can pack on twin SRM-6s for 24 damage per shot as opposed to 2. If you compare to an AC/5, you can fit 2 SRM-6s and an SRM-4 for identical weight, and instead of 5 damage you can deliver 32 damage, and deliver another volley at almost twice the speed of a single AC/20 (so 8 tons 64 damage compared to the 14 ton AC/20's 40 damage in 3-4 seconds). In fact the speed is quite comparable to a UAC/20 and for a LOT less heat.

The scattered damage helps to find weak points in enemy armor, too. For example what if someone put massive amounts of armor on the torsos but didn't put anything on the legs? Missiles will find that out easily.
Missiles deliver their damage instantly, unlike lasers or even pulse lasers.

If you edit the first post and then choose "Use full editor" you can edit the title.
Videos of SRM use.
This mech relies entirely on SRMs to deliver its damage. The flamers are just a joke at the time used to blind people.
Note: A change in ghost heat rules caused this mech to violate ghost heat every time I fired -- something I didn't know until after.


"Nerfed" as in SRMs are cut to doing 2 damage, instead of the bug that did up to 25 damage per missile (where I got 500+ damage in less than 40 seconds). 2012 (Note this is not in comparison to above.)

2013. My allies are annihilated within seconds. I fight for several minutes and kill several enemies as the only one alive, never shutting down.

2014 Changed to Streaks instead of SRMs. Basically less missiles, slower firing rate, but homing.


Clan SRMs + a pair of LB-20X shotguns... Insta-killing things.

Edited by Koniving, 24 June 2017 - 09:43 AM.

[Jamico]

Wow, thanks for the quick replies. So, if I understand, here are the pros of SRM's:

1) They do twice as much damage as I thought, or more.

2) Good damage per ton. (Twice as good as I thought. See above.)

3) Cockpit shake and blur.

4) Burst damage.

5) Good for "hit and dance" playstyles, like Peak-a-boom or bang-twist.

6) The shotgun affect can work for you, if you're a noob like me who is still learning how to aim.

Thank you. I knew there were things about SRM's I just wasn't getting. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the mech lab...

[Koniving]

Yep. Twice (or more) umph in exchange for the paltry range.

And to pre-empt the future question: "Why MRMs"?
The launchers go up to 40 tubes. They have significantly more range than SRMs though not quite the range of LRMs. Lack homing ability though (in both source and here; SRMs lack target tracking here but have it in the source material). MRMs do 1 damage per missile, but the range and volume of missiles per launcher more than make up for it.

For example on the Archer with 9 missile slots, given enough sacrifices I could have... 360 missile tubes... which is absolutely insane come to think about it.

[Koniving]

Side note: MRMs release next month.

[Void Angel]

Jamico, on 24 June 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Can you good people help me understand SRM's a little better? I just don't see the point of them. They are short range, they run hot, don't have pinpoint accuracy (shotgun affect), and they don't do a whole lot of damage (6 points, at most). Now, I'm not starting yet another SRM vs LRM debate. I know why people think LRM's are evil. I get that, so let's not go there in this thread. However, why would I want SRM's instead of lasers or ballistics? Outside of "I want more brawling weapons and I only have missile slots left", what would be the strategic advantage of SRM's?
PS, sorry for all caps in the title. It should have read "Why SRM's?". Too bad I couldn't edit the title.

Jamico, on 24 June 2017 - 08:44 AM, said:

Can you good people help me understand SRM's a little better? I just don't see the point of them. They are short range, they run hot, don't have pinpoint accuracy (shotgun affect), and they don't do a whole lot of damage (6 points, at most). Now, I'm not starting yet another SRM vs LRM debate. I know why people think LRM's are evil. I get that, so let's not go there in this thread. However, why would I want SRM's instead of lasers or ballistics? Outside of "I want more brawling weapons and I only have missile slots left", what would be the strategic advantage of SRM's? PS, sorry for all caps in the title. It should have read "Why SRM's?". Too bad I couldn't edit the title.

Because nothing does more damage/ton at close range than an SRM launcher. It's not usually even close. An Inner Sphere ASRM6 does 12.9 damage for 4 heat and 6 tons (assuming 2 tons/launcher as a generous combat load; you can do one ton.) That's 3.23 damage/heat, 3.23 damage/second and 1.86 damage per second per ton - and the Clan versions, though slightly lower dps and dph, have much better dps/t. It also does that damage in a burst, without the stare time required for lasers and most autocannons, which is ideal for brawling. By comparison, the IS AC/20 does 20 damage (of course) with a 4 second cooldown at 6 heat: this gives it a slightly superior 3.33 damage/heat, and the highest frontloaded pinpoint damage in the game at 5dps. The AC/20 also weighs in at a whopping 15 tons with a bare minimum ammo loadout; this yields a mere 0.33 dps/ton.

As for energy weapons, the most efficient short-ranged energy weapon is still the IS small laser; if you brought enough small lasers to approximate the ASRM's damage (4,) you'd be spending 4 tons to do slightly less damage for 6.8 heat - 1.7 times the heat from the ASRM/6, and with a severely limiting 150m base range (this is why Small Lasers are mostly the province of Light 'mechs who can close effectively with their targets.) The extra heat sinks to bring the laser's heat efficiency up to the level of SRMs would make them effectively heavier for the damage at any desired rate of heat efficiency.

What all that mathematical jargon up there means is that SRMs are used because they are superb weapons within their narrow role. In presenting this analysis, I've primarily focused on the relative strengths of the weapons in order to present this final point: the limitations you're focused on - ammo requirements, scatter damage, limited range - are in place because they are needed to balance the weapon system's strengths. Even compared to the Medium Pulse Laser (IS, because the range is more similar,) you'd have to miss your intended component (e.g. Left Torso) with more than half of your missiles for the pulse laser to be more damaging or more heat efficient compared to your effective time to kill (and that's assuming he never misses, himself.) For this reason, the Faction Play Scouting mode was dominated for a long time by SRM-boating Medium 'mechs on both sides of the tech divide - and still is, to my knowledge.

So to summarize, SRMs are among the best weapons in their class for their narrow role; if you are planning to fight sustained battles at very close range,SRMs (and heavy autocannons if you have the tonnage) are the best weapons for doing so.

PS: SRMs may seem to you to run hot for one of two reasons: either you are evaluating them for how much heat they generate when you fire them without considering the massive damage they produce - or else you're firing more than four at once and incurring Heat Scale Penalties. Also, if you have not yet discovered the website in that link, Smurfy's reference site is a superb resource which no Mechwarrior should be without.

PPS: You're confusing Tabletop weapon damage for MWO equivalents - here, Check This List.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

SMRs are fairly good. They don't run so hot, they deal a lot of damage, and in particular they are fairly lightweight.

For smaller mechs they can be good primary weapons and some bigger brawlers also benefit a lot from them alongside with something else like autocannons.

I've had 2xSRM on some mechs, it seems too little to be really useful. I think 4 hardpoints should be used. 4 is also the ghost heat limit of bigger laucnhers, I think for both IS and Clan.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 24 June 2017 - 09:46 PM.

[Kaethir]

SRM launchers are excellent at light mech deterrence.

[B0oN]

If you find you are staring at walls, just tear them down with a well-meant SRM alpha

[Nerokar]

One of the magic words against "Shotgun Effect" is Artemis. It is expensive, your tubes weight more and need more space, but your rockets have less spread. With some training you can group your hits realy well.

Other main points were allready said. The last one maybe:
SMR(A[rtemis])'s make you scary... Every on speed reliant Light or medium knows that one well placed salvo from a SRM brawler can rip off a limb or two. This makes you less attracktive target...

Similar effect is only possible with IS ACs (clans in lesser extend), LBXs, PPCs or Gausses. But all of those weapons weight more than SRM6 (Even with Artemis) and requre (with exception off PPC) more space...

Edited by Nerokar, 26 June 2017 - 05:57 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Small tip. If you're using an Inner Sphere mech, SRM4s have pretty good spread even without artemis. Where as SRM6 I wouldn't use without Artemis.

[Mazzyplz]

when you start using enough SRMS in a single salvo, shirt just starts explodin'
i am sure people have said everything in the thread i didn't read all the comments.

[justcallme A S H]

Koniving, on 24 June 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

Side note: MRMs release next month.

Not evne worth considering with the spread they currently have.

DOA tech, worse spread than LBX's at all ranges.

[Jamico]

Wow, people are still responding to this. Thank you for all the tips. I am definitely going to build some mechs around using SRM's. (If, for no other reason, to learn all possible play styles before I promote to tier 4.) I am also looking forward to using M&M's (aka MRM's).

[Sonny Black]

[BaconTWOfourACTUAL]

Jamico, on 24 June 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

Wow, thanks for the quick replies. So, if I understand, here are the pros of SRM's:

1) They do twice as much damage as I thought, or more.

2) Good damage per ton. (Twice as good as I thought. See above.)

3) Cockpit shake and blur.

4) Burst damage.

5) Good for "hit and dance" playstyles, like Peak-a-boom or bang-twist.

6) The shotgun affect can work for you, if you're a noob like me who is still learning how to aim.

Thank you. I knew there were things about SRM's I just wasn't getting. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the mech lab...

Example:

I run my ShadowHawk-2D2 with 2 MPL, LB10-X, SRM6, SRM4, SRM2

I tend to use my SRMs defensively, to give a mech 2nd thoughts if I'm the prey he wants (thats a 48 point alpha) and with the added bonus to the 12 missiles I'm firing, I've got the LB10X to further spread load damage.
So now your torso is all but destroyed along with whatever arm is connected to it or whatever spot is vulnerable at the time...

[caravann]

Every one of the shots are streamlined into a single lane.

That means for every SRM you shoot your spreading increases as it can not occupy the same equal space

The effect is that when you fire all SRM it becomes a MRM with the exception that you have no range

The heating of the SRM is higher for the smaller than the bigger because the smaller never gain enough cooldown to be considered an option. Beyond 2 SRMs you start to trade space since the refire is fast enough to make any additional SRMs a waste. This make SRMs a niche mechanic since you can not meta, can not really sync with any other weapons. MRMs shoot at 540 , light machineguns at 540, since it is the only machine gun worth using just to have some chance for ammo explosion.

When you start to talk about Artemis we're at the heavy class or even assault class. At medium or light Artemis becomes too much for a weapon who maybe never be fired during a whole game.