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Lets Talk Crits! Lbx20 & Heavy Gauss!


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Poll: Lets Talk Crits!!! LBX20 & Heavy Gauss! (166 member(s) have cast votes)

Agree with Heavy Gauss becoming 10Crits?

  1. Yes, (129 votes [77.71%])

    Percentage of vote: 77.71%

  2. No, (37 votes [22.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 22.29%

Agree with IS-LBX20 becoming 10Crits?

  1. Yes, (147 votes [88.55%])

    Percentage of vote: 88.55%

  2. No, (19 votes [11.45%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.45%

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#1 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 12:15 PM

liking the PTS so far but their is one problem i have with these 2 weapons,
that problem is them being 11Crits, i know they were 11Crits in TT, True,
but this isnt TT ( A ) and ( B ) TT had Crit Splitting,

as MWO doesnt have Crit Splitting,
I feel both Weapon Systems should have their Crits reduced to 10,
this would allow Both of them to be mounted in the Arms of some Mechs,
as well as Torsos even if the Mech Carries a LFE(which they can in Lore)

Currently if you want an LBX20 or Heavy Gauss,
you can only Mount them in your STs, and only with a Standard Engine,
this is a huge Penalty for both of these weapon systems,

i know PGI has been reluctant to Change Crit requirements on weapons,
but in this case i not only feel its necessary, but the right thing to do,

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 02 July 2017 - 09:10 AM.


#2 Metus regem

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 12:44 PM

If anything I think the IS LB-20X should be 8 or 9 crits, other wise combined with the tonnage of 14 and the LB spread pattern the weapon is overly punished.

#3 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 01:48 PM

View PostMetus regem, on 28 June 2017 - 12:44 PM, said:

If anything I think the IS LB-20X should be 8 or 9 crits, other wise combined with the tonnage of 14 and the LB spread pattern the weapon is overly punished.

well all IS LBX have x3Max Range, which is also something other ACs dont have,
sadly Clan LBX dont have this, as i feel they should as all LBX in TT have the same Range,

#4 Metus regem

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 02:13 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 28 June 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

well all IS LBX have x3Max Range, which is also something other ACs dont have,
sadly Clan LBX dont have this, as i feel they should as all LBX in TT have the same Range,



They are LB's that extra range means nothing. The optimal range they list means nothing, LB's are only really effective below 200m.

In TT a LB can land all damage on a target at long range, it is a canister round that bursts open between 100-50m from the target, in MWO it's a shot-gun. I've used cLB-2x's and had them miss the back of a stationary Awesome in the testing grounds from 800m well with in the optimal of 900m due to the spread on them. That should not happen, plane and simple.

Saying that they have 3x the optimal range, is just as good as this:

Posted Image

#5 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 02:27 PM

View PostMetus regem, on 28 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

They are LB's that extra range means nothing. The optimal range they list means nothing, LB's are only really effective below 200m.

In TT a LB can land all damage on a target at long range, it is a canister round that bursts open between 100-50m from the target, in MWO it's a shot-gun. I've used cLB-2x's and had them miss the back of a stationary Awesome in the testing grounds from 800m well with in the optimal of 900m due to the spread on them. That should not happen, plane and simple.

Saying that they have 3x the optimal range, is just as good as this:

well ive tested the IS LBX20 at 400m and Most if not all the pellets will hit an AS7s Torso,
yes as distance increases so does the spread, but x3 means it keeps more of its damage past its range,
thats all im saying, but we are getting off topic,

Heavy Gauss and IS-LBX20 should have their Crits reduced to 10,
as to Enable Lore Builds Possible in TT, but not in MWO due to Crit Splitting,

#6 Felbombling

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 02:59 PM

While they're at it, drop the Clan LB 20-X by one to match the Ultra AC/20. My Huntsman would like to swap out that Ultra for the LB, dammit!!

#7 Top Leliel

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:01 PM

How about have them automatically critsplit if they reach 10 and need an 11th?

PGI can do dynamic slots, how about making a dynamic weapon slot for HGR and LBX20 that goes into the nearest component if it takes up 10 and has no more room?

#8 Brain Cancer

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:20 PM

No. Stop kludging weapon systems, FIX the construction system to properly allow split-critting weapons.

The reason these weapons suffer for being big is purely a lack of programming capacity on PGI's end. Full stop.

#9 Stridercal

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:20 PM

We need dynamic slots. Leave the weapons alone.

#10 Kaptain

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:35 PM

I personally don't care about the HG so do what you like there... but the LBX20 is stock in the arms of several mechs. The bushwacker and Night star come to mind right off the top of my head. On top of that I would love to run it in Victors, Highlanders, hunchbacks (with LFEs) and many other mechs. Either we need crit splitting or the crit slots need to be reduced by one.

Edited by Kaptain, 28 June 2017 - 07:44 PM.


#11 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 07:05 PM

View PostKaptain, on 28 June 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

I personally don't care about the HG so do what you like there... but the LBX20 is stock in the arms of several mechs. The bushwacker and Night stare come to mind right off the top of my head. On top of that I would love to run it in Victors, Highlanders, hunchbacks (with LFEs) and many other mechs. Either we need crit splitting or the crit slots need to be reduced by one.

Agreed, i was really looking forward to this, but to take a STD to take a LBX20 is abit much,

#12 Kaptain

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 07:47 PM

View PostAndi Nagasia, on 28 June 2017 - 07:05 PM, said:

Agreed, i was really looking forward to this, but to take a STD to take a LBX20 is abit much,


Right? If given a choice between running an AC20/UAC20 AND a LFE Vs just the LBX, no one is ever going to run an LBX. Hell most of my ac20 mechs physically can't run the LBX period. Its a niche brawler weapon that allows you to quickly aim and fire. Combine that niche with its current fitment limitation and its almost DOA with only a few outliers. I hope they fix this (as they are never going to give us ammo types, crit splitting, or knockdowns)

Edited by Kaptain, 28 June 2017 - 07:48 PM.


#13 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 07:00 AM

View PostStridercal, on 28 June 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

We need dynamic slots. Leave the weapons alone.

perhaps if thats an option, but if its not Shrink the size of the weapon,
they do the same thing, just one is much easier to code,

#14 AngrySpartan

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 07:12 AM

1. Absolutely, both hands up for LBX becoming 10 slots so you can fit it in the arm or ST with LFE.

2. Nope Heavy gauss should not be placed anywhere except STs neither it should be shrinked. That's not the Lyran way to make guns smaller!!!
That's the construction rules and there are no critsplitting for Heavygausses. There are no lore builds with that. Beside that, it's freaking 50 pinpoint alpha without heat and decent range for reduced damage.

#15 Metus regem

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 07:26 AM

View PostAngrySpartan, on 29 June 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

2. Nope Heavy gauss should not be placed anywhere except STs neither it should be shrinked. That's not the Lyran way to make guns smaller!!!
That's the construction rules and there are no critsplitting for Heavygausses. There are no lore builds with that. Beside that, it's freaking 50 pinpoint alpha without heat and decent range for reduced damage.



Record sheet for the Crusader CRD-8S says look at your record sheets...

The Crusader 8S uses an XL engine and a HGR that is crit split between the LT and CT.

Don't believe me, look it up in Record Sheet: 3085 unabridged - project phoenix, page 128. (product code BC214)

#16 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 07:28 AM

View PostAngrySpartan, on 29 June 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

2. Nope Heavy gauss should not be placed anywhere except STs neither it should be shrinked. That's not the Lyran way to make guns smaller!!!
That's the construction rules and there are no critsplitting for Heavygausses. There are no lore builds with that. Beside that, it's freaking 50 pinpoint alpha without heat and decent range for reduced damage.

well in TT the Heavy Gauss Could be Placed in a ST with LFE,
it couldnt Normally(some Exceptions) be placed into the Arms and Crit Split into the STs,
but it could be Placed in the STs and be Crit Split into the CT, and thats with TT Tournament Construction Rules,

also thats 25Damage at 180m, it goes down to 21at 300, and down to 16 at 450,
so its very much a close range weapon, also the weapon Jerks when it fires throwing off other weapons,
that as well as having a 6.5cooldown, and being only more effective than a AC/UAC20 at under 180,
i dont think reducing its crits would be a problem, also its harsh to brawl with when not in a team,

#17 Solahma

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 07:41 AM

The LBX20 and HG weapon stats appear to have been balanced assuming you can mount them the same as most other weapons. The fact they are also HARD LIMITED to ST with STD engines hurts them beyond viability. I'd love to run more builds that can utilize them in different and interesting ways, but they are extremely lack-luster due to their stats being balanced while also being restricted in this way.

I really hope PGI considers this.

#18 AngrySpartan

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 07:49 AM

View PostMetus regem, on 29 June 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

Record sheet for the Crusader CRD-8S says look at your record sheets...

The Crusader 8S uses an XL engine and a HGR that is crit split between the LT and CT.

Don't believe me, look it up in Record Sheet: 3085 unabridged - project phoenix, page 128. (product code BC214)

Lol, you and Andi are actually right. But I swear I saw somewhere else in official books that it can not be placed anywhere except STs, perhaps the old source, will quote if I'll manage to find it.

Still like the idea of limited locations for heavy Gauss, but whatever, changed the vote.

#19 Metus regem

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 07:53 AM

View PostSolahma, on 29 June 2017 - 07:41 AM, said:

The LBX20 and HG weapon stats appear to have been balanced assuming you can mount them the same as most other weapons. The fact they are also HARD LIMITED to ST with STD engines hurts them beyond viability. I'd love to run more builds that can utilize them in different and interesting ways, but they are extremely lack-luster due to their stats being balanced while also being restricted in this way.

I really hope PGI considers this.



Part of the cirt issue on the LB-20X is the fact that it was balanced around the idea that it could fire both canister shot and slug shot in TT, it was done with the 11th crit to not invailidate the AC/20. How ever in MWO we lack the ability to fire anything other than cluster shot with LB's so punishing the LB-20X, 2X and 5X with extra crit space requirements is just asinine.

As for the HGR, in TT you could crit spilt with it, it just took the most restrictive firing arc and always did the damage to the ST it was mounted in. So yes, you could take a Fafnir with a 300 LFE and twin HGR's and crit split them into either the arms or CT max the Armour and still have 14.5t left over for secondary weapons and ammo. Here though that 11'th crit is just overly punishing it as it forces a standard engine.

View PostAngrySpartan, on 29 June 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

Lol, you and Andi are actually right. But I swear I saw somewhere else in official books that it can not be placed anywhere except STs, perhaps the old source, will quote if I'll manage to find it.

Still like the idea of limited locations for heavy Gauss, but whatever, changed the vote.



No you are right, it can only be placed in a ST, but can be spilt into arms or CT. If you manage to land a crit on it when it has been split into either the arm or CT the damage from the explosion is done to the ST. It's a weird weapon in BT, but it's all true.

#20 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 02:01 PM

@Metus regem,
personally i would Support all IS-LBX being -1Crit & -1Ton vs IS-Standard-ACs, ;)





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