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Std Engine And Std Chassis Buff


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#1 JC Daxion

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 07:29 PM

come on balance folks.. Please make this a thing.


STD is not good enough to not get a penelty. Give it a torso buff..


STD verse endo..

again give it an STD chassis buff.


I dunno what % it should be, but it should be something. Give us a reason outside of extra space on a couple of builds to take it.

#2 MAXrobo

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 09:54 PM

Yes please. As much as I love the LFE, It has made STD engines almost entirely obsolete. I would love so much if there was actually a choice between LFE/STD and endo/STD. Buffing standard structure would also give more reason to take FF armor, as you cant take endo for weight saving with STD structure. More options is always more fun.

maybe we can do something about Single heat sinks while we are at it? maybe? no? ok...

#3 Bad Pun

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 10:12 PM

I don't think that the Standard Engine needs any buffs, as it enables some zombie builds that can be pretty silly. But standard structure? Maybe a 5% increase to structure points? Could be a thing, it's not going to mean too much, but it's more of a consideration than whether I click Endo first or Doubles when I upgrade a new mech.

#4 JadePanther

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Posted 02 July 2017 - 11:42 PM

I could see STD engines getting a slight mobility buff over other engines as all the power is concentrated and not spread out..

sure there are always gonna be some zombie builds but heck taking a std engine comes with a huge weight penalty so why not toss it a bone for what the darn things weigh..

#5 MustrumRidcully

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 01:31 AM

Engine Balance
  • Standard Engine: +15 % or +15 CT structure; Dies when Center Torso is destroyed
  • IS XL Engine: +10 % or +10 buff to all torso structure; Dies when Side Torso is destroyed
  • IS LFE: +5 % or +5 % to all toso structure; Dies when both side torsos or the center torso is destroyed, Penalty when Side Torso is destroyed.
  • Clan XL: As now. Dies when both side torsos or the center torso is destroyed, Penalty when Side Torso is destroyed.
Structure Balance
  • IS Endo Steel: 14 Crits; 50 % Weight; 25 % damage reduction to component damage
  • Clan Endo Steel: 7 Crits; 50 % Weight; No Benefits
  • Clan and IS Standard Structure: +5 % Structure Points; 50 % damage reduction to component damage
Armor Balance
  • Standard: None; ???
  • Clan Ferro Fibrous: 7 Crit; 20 % more armor per ton;
  • IS Ferro Fibrous: 14 Crit; 12 % more armor per ton; ???
  • IS Light Ferro Fibrous; 7 Crits; 6 % more armor per ton; ???


#6 davoodoo

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:24 AM

No one uses standards in clans even supernova which got std in their stock configuration got this instantly replaced.

Funny that you just woken up with std becoming obsolete.
God bless that 3 crits dhs alone will prevent that from happening and will result in at least some assaults using those.

Edited by davoodoo, 03 July 2017 - 02:25 AM.


#7 Doctor Dinosaur

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 02:31 AM

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#8 Guile Votoms

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:49 AM

You can only use LB20X (not sure why, in this case) and Heavy Gauss on standard engines.
Also, using standard means 4 more usuable torso slots and you don't get any penalties for one side blowing up.

There's plenty reasons to still use standard, at least on assaults and the larger heavies.

#9 Rusharn

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 06:49 AM

Maybe they will give the IS LFE the 40% heat reduction to all heat sinks in the engine when a side torso is knocked out. If you have a symmetrical Laser vomit build that'll make you consider a STD engine.

#10 Damnedtroll

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 07:16 AM

just remove all buff and nerf... and enable critical hit on engine

Edited by Damnedtroll, 03 July 2017 - 07:46 AM.


#11 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:00 AM

I spent about 30 hours on the PTS and I still have several mechs using standard engines for various reasons so they won't go away entirely. I mean just using a Heavy Gauss requires a standard engine and you know there will be people using them in July.

Also why would the standard engine need a buff? I mean it already has a huge advantage in that you don't take any penalties when you lose a side torso. Despite all the whiners, the fact is, when a clan mech loses a ST, it takes a huge hit to performance. I mean it isn't uncommon for a Clan mech to be unable to fire two CER MLs after losing a ST without going into immediate shutdown. I think alot of IS purists are going to be in shock when the realize just how crippling losing a ST with a LFE really is.

#12 Damnedtroll

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 09:24 AM

View PostViktor Drake, on 03 July 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

I think alot of IS purists are going to be in shock when the realize just how crippling losing a ST with a LFE really is.


Not that bad loosing a st with a LFE, a lot better than dying!

#13 Rusharn

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:38 AM

Depends, ever been in a clan mech firing an alpha strike when you lose a side torso. You shut down and have to wait to either be destroyed by heat or destroyed by the enemy. It's grand waiting through the slow death.

Edited by Rusharn, 03 July 2017 - 10:38 AM.


#14 SilentScreamer

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:49 AM

I think the O.P. has a valid point. I think the LFE will be replacing more Standard Engines in my existing mechs and I'll leave most of my XL builds "as-is" since they rely on Firepower (or Speed for light mechs) over Survivability. So should there be additional incentive to use Standard Engines?

Standard Engine always had a role. Zombie builds are a niche, but very few are effective when BOTH side torsos are destroyed. That is the hallmark of a true zombie. Crabs and Shadowhawks come to mind. However, I would say more mechs are more effective if given more speed or weapons from the lighter XL Engine. The extra firepower or speed from the XL is typically more valuable than the extra durability of the standard engine.

View PostViktor Drake, on 03 July 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

Also why would the standard engine need a buff? I mean it already has a huge advantage in that you don't take any penalties when you lose a side torso. Despite all the whiners, the fact is, when a clan mech loses a ST, it takes a huge hit to performance. I mean it isn't uncommon for a Clan mech to be unable to fire two CER MLs after losing a ST without going into immediate shutdown.


Being crippled means you can still shoot, blame yourself if your mech build has only high heat weapons left. I'm happy to accept the penalties associated with the proposed LFE over the current IS XL Engine for several of my builds.

View PostViktor Drake, on 03 July 2017 - 09:00 AM, said:

I think alot of IS purists are going to be in shock when the realize just how crippling losing a ST with a LFE really is.


Compare that Clan mech to any I.S. mech running an XL Engine will not be firing any weapons, as it is DESTROYED when a side torso is destroyed.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 03 July 2017 - 11:03 AM.


#15 Mycroft000

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:55 AM

View Postdavoodoo, on 03 July 2017 - 02:24 AM, said:

No one uses standards in clans even supernova which got std in their stock configuration got this instantly replaced. Funny that you just woken up with std becoming obsolete. God bless that 3 crits dhs alone will prevent that from happening and will result in at least some assaults using those.


Not true, I have a SNV-1 that I run 8 medium lasers, and 21 additional heatsinks with a standard 325.

#16 LordNothing

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:56 AM

make it come with an intrinsic 5-10% ct armor buff. smaller engine means more room in the ct for armor. really accentuate its survivability role. maybe even bring back the zombie. even buff the zombie weapons a bit, they are conditional to both sts being cleaved off, but when that happens you can push more power to the lasers or whatever and have shorter durations and faster cooldowns.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 July 2017 - 11:01 AM.


#17 Rusharn

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 10:58 AM

I also have a super nova that runs a standard that runs 3 lasers in the head and torso. Zombies like a champ, whether it is 3 er large or er meds.

Edited by Rusharn, 03 July 2017 - 10:58 AM.


#18 Johnny Z

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:06 AM

Yes.

#19 J0anna

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 11:34 AM

No, absolutely not. Level 2 BT is supposed to be better than level 1 BT. Stop trying to balance around the old level 1 junk. Let it die in a fire. Yes it will still be used in some builds, that's enough.

#20 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 03 July 2017 - 03:54 PM

And BECAUSE many of you are crying for STD buffs, PGI is not even going to touch the isXL, leaving it as is, death with the loss of one side torso.

The only buff I would give STD is when equipped, damage percentage xfer from arm/leg to side torso to CT is doubled.

Quote

. I think alot of IS purists are going to be in shock when the realize just how crippling losing a ST with a LFE really is.

Those purist is reflected in Russ/Paul stance, one of the reasons isXL current does not have the same benefits as cXL, even though there is no functional engine crit system.
  • LFE - 15.0% movement-20.0% heat. It only has 25% weight savings but same amount of crit slots as cXL.
  • cXL 20.0% movement-30% heat (only reason not at 20% is that PGI felt it needed to be 40%, but I would reduce it to 30%
  • isXL 25% movement-40% heat penalties.
  • STD - double the current damage reduction for incoming fire that hits destroyed arm/leg/side torso areas, which are transferred to the next location.
The STD benefit falls in the same area as the other engines.. it is not to prevent a side torso from being destroyed but to allow the mech to continue to operate AFTER it is destroyed. Additional structural buffs do not fill in that range, as least any structural buffs that are applied to side torsos. Reduction incoming damage that hits destroyed areas allows that mech w/STD to use that destroyed area as a shield, soaking up damage and reduction it by a large margin.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 03 July 2017 - 04:17 PM.






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