14 replies to this topic

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

"Enhanced UAC/RAC Design Notes: The previous UAC Jam Chance Nodes placed us in a spot where the initial test values were impacting the upfront, sustained DPS of UAC weaponry a bit too much; leading us into a position where we could not provide the Node with significantly more value than what it was previously tuned for without adversely affecting weapon balance. As an alternative, we have changed the functionality for UACs to provide a percentile reduction to Jam Duration . . .."

Does anyone understand what this means. It's interesting that most people thought the UAC nodes were a waste as is, but PGI thought they had too big an effect on DPS as is. How could that be? It may have to do with the DPSeffect per node being too high, even though the marginal effect is small. Most nodes have a very small effect individually but have more nodes so you can build up a significant effect with 5 or 10 SP. UAC jam chance had only two nodes, so a small SP cost, and maybe they couldn't fit more nodes into the tree. But I haven't done the math and it seems strange to me that PGI would just drop UAC jam chance entirely. This reinforces the already strong advantage of having a UAC Jam chance Quirk in a mech.
Why do people think PGI made this choice and will the new jam duration nodes have any value?

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Could you delete the other thread so we don't get two threads of same collecting and splitting replies? You can see under the message here is "moderation tools" and you can delete it from there.


I think PGI referred to, that were the UAC node stronger, it would have made too big impact to XXX, so therefore the node was made weaker. As in the way it's currenly.

I think I didn't see any contradiction in it. And now they will make it change to a different value so that in hopes it can be made to have bigger impact, without going too far.

Edited by Teer Kerensky, 16 July 2017 - 12:31 PM.

[Koniving]

Uh.
Teer didn't see it.

So I'll explain it.

*Dons a fake PGI voice.*
"Derp derp we had UACs give reduced Jam chances. Derp derp herpaderp but people weren't jamming much anymore and it made the weapons super powerful. Derpaherpaderpaderp So instead it now reduces the time you remain jammed."

<.<

In other words:

It used to reduce jam chances... meaning jam less often to not at all.
Now... you JAM like everyone... but you twiddle your thumbs for less time with each node.

[MechaBattler]

Wasn't it only a 5% jam chance reduction? That's hardly noticeable and best if you already have UAC jam reduction quirks. Where as reducing the duration of a jam sounds more useful. Especially for large UACs.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

MechaBattler, on 17 July 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Wasn't it only a 5% jam chance reduction? That's hardly noticeable and best if you already have UAC jam reduction quirks. Where as reducing the duration of a jam sounds more useful. Especially for large UACs.

This is part of what puzzled me about PGI's statement about the change since the 5% reduction of jam chance for twin nodes was not considered noticeable by players, given the already small base chance of jam (I think 15%). So 5% of 15% was only a Jam chanc change of 0.75%. (Consensus was that it was a percentage reduction of the jam chance probability not a substraction of Percentage points from the jam chance percentage.). Statistically it meant that 1 out of 20 James that otherwise would
happen did not. Reducing jam duriation will be more noticeable at least since it would kick in anytime there is a jam and the benefits to DPS are cumulative over time. Whether it will equal or exceed the statistical benefit Of avoiding 1/20 Jams altogether depends on the reduction involved -- the net effect could be more or less to DPS but is sure to be more easily noticed in game.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

DeloresAbernathy, on 17 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

This is part of what puzzled me about PGI's statement about the change

Yes. You are missing the word "test".

[Jingseng]

Two issues to consider as well:

1) we don't have access to the back end data that they have;

2) we think rationally.

[AzureRathalos]

DeloresAbernathy, on 17 July 2017 - 12:13 PM, said:

This is part of what puzzled me about PGI's statement about the change since the 5% reduction of jam chance for twin nodes was not considered noticeable by players, given the already small base chance of jam (I think 15%).

PGI's statement makes sense to me.

They want to give more value to the UAC nodes, but adding more jam chance reduction would scale damage up too fast. So, instead of applying a modifier to the random effect of jam chance, they moved the modifier to the consistent effect of jam duration.

[Koniving]

It wasn't actually 5% off of 15%...
It was 5 reduction from the 15 of 100%, reducing jam chance from 15% of any time you double tap to just 10%.

[Karl the Plumber]

Since I jam every time I touch a UAC, no matter what, and occasionally on the first tap (it happens, you double-tap-only disbelievers), I am happy with this change.

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

Koniving, on 18 July 2017 - 11:51 AM, said:

It wasn't actually 5% off of 15%...
It was 5 reduction from the 15 of 100%, reducing jam chance from 15% of any time you double tap to just 10%.

Well that explains it .. I had read it was the opposite. PGI never seems to have clearly said how it worked, but this makes more sense given their statement that it was overperforming.

[War Kitten]

Greetings All,

For those of us who run dual/quad RACs (MX90 w/RAC5 x2, RAC2 x2 paired 5 to 5, 2 to 2), all I have done is have one pair on one mouse button and one on the other and use one button for about 4 sec then switch to the other one for 4 sec. in that time the first should have cooled down to use again while the other is cooling and I have never jammed.

You seem to have about a 4-5 sec fire time (going by the yellow 'build up' bar on your weap console) to fire your weaps before they can jam. Just stop firing one before the bar fills up and you should never jam.

War Kitten

[Serpentine Shel Serpentine]

War Kitten, on 24 July 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

Greetings All,

For those of us who run dual/quad RACs (MX90 w/RAC5 x2, RAC2 x2 paired 5 to 5, 2 to 2), all I have done is have one pair on one mouse button and one on the other and use one button for about 4 sec then switch to the other one for 4 sec. in that time the first should have cooled down to use again while the other is cooling and I have never jammed.

You seem to have about a 4-5 sec fire time (going by the yellow 'build up' bar on your weap console) to fire your weaps before they can jam. Just stop firing one before the bar fills up and you should never jam.

War Kitten

According to smurphys there is a substantial heat penalty for more than 2 RACS fired within 500 Ms of each other. The RAC2 and RAC5 are linked so you pay the higher RAC5 penalty if you have 5's and 2's. I'm not saying it cannot be done but I'm wondering how you manage the heat. I have found RAC builds to run quite hot although I like
them a lot for fun value.

[War Kitten]

DeloresAbernathy,

Sorry, I don't know what the '500Ms' are, but there is a 2 sec or so start up time before firing and I tend to be 3 or 4 sec between one set of guns firing and the other. When you say the 2s and 5s are linked, are you referring to being on the same mech? I pair only same with same because the 2s bullet time is faster than the 5s, so I only fire two guns at a time (twos with twos, five with five), I was initially talking about avoiding the guns jamming at all, I was not referring to heat build up, but I don't recall over heating too often possibly because the target mechs are in constant motion and I am not constantly firing (time to cool down) and I also don't fire over the 4-5 sec mark to try to avoid jamming/excess heat. Not perfect, I tend to avoid jams more often this way.

War Kitten

[Rogue Jedi]

500ms is 500 miliseconds, or half a second.

linked for the puposes of ghost heat means if you fire them within half a second of each other they count as the same weapon type for the purposes of ghost heat heat scale, so as the ghose heat penalty is set at 2 RACs firing e.g. 1 RAC5 and 2 RAC2 at the same time you would get the penalty for firing more than 2 RAC.

if you want to avoid the RACs ever jamming stop firing before the bar fills up, they do not jam until the bar is full.