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A Proper Rac


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Poll: RAC as MG (42 member(s) have cast votes)

Should RAC work like archetypal Overheating MG?

  1. Yes to your setup (24 votes [57.14%])

    Percentage of vote: 57.14%

  2. Yes to no RNG, but not your setup (6 votes [14.29%])

    Percentage of vote: 14.29%

  3. No (11 votes [26.19%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.19%

  4. Yes to your High-Power setup (1 votes [2.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.38%

Should we have RAC10?

  1. Yes, to your setup (11 votes [34.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.38%

  2. Yes, but set with the current trend (7 votes [21.88%])

    Percentage of vote: 21.88%

  3. No (14 votes [43.75%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.75%

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#1 The6thMessenger

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 05:03 PM

tl;dr



Spoiler

tl;dr




View PostThe6thMessenger, on 20 July 2017 - 09:36 PM, said:

Spoiler


My recommendation? This:
},
	"1058": {
		"name": "RotaryAutoCannon2",
		"category": "weapon",
		"factions": {
			"Clan": false,
			"InnerSphere": true
		},
		"stats": {
			"Health": 10,
			"slots": 3,
			"type": "Ballistic",
			"projectileclass": "bullet",
			"numFiring": 1,
			"damage": 0.7, // was 0.8
			"heatdamage": 0,
			"heatpenalty": 5,
			"heatPenaltyID": 11,
			"minheatpenaltylevel": 3,
			"impulse": 0.012, // was 0.04
			"heat": 2.4, // was 2
			"cooldown": 0,
			"ammoType": "RotaryAC2Ammo",
			"ammoPerShot": 1,
			"tons": 8,
			"duration": -1,
			"lifetime": 4.5, // was 10
			"speed": 2000, // was 1500
			"volleydelay": 0,
			"rof": 10.00, // was 7.275
			"spread": 0.19,
			"gravity": "0,0,-9.8",
			"maxDepth": 10,
			"rampUpTime": 0.50, // was 0.75
			"rampDownTime": 1.00, // was 2
			"jamRampUpTime": 5.4, // was 6
			"jamRampDownTime": 4.5, // was 10
			"JammingChance": 1.000, // was 0.037
			"JammedTime": 4.5 // was 10
		},
		"ranges": [
			{
				"start": "0",
				"damageModifier": "1.0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			},
			{
				"start": "540",
				"damageModifier": "1.0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			},
			{
				"start": "1080",
				"damageModifier": "0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			}
		],
		"inheritfrom": null,
		"cost": null
	},
	"1059": {
		"name": "RotaryAutoCannon5",
		"category": "weapon",
		"factions": {
			"Clan": false,
			"InnerSphere": true
		},
		"stats": {
			"Health": 10,
			"slots": 6,
			"type": "Ballistic",
			"projectileclass": "bullet",
			"numFiring": 1,
			"damage": 1.10, // was 1.5
			"heatdamage": 0,
			"heatpenalty": 6,
			"heatPenaltyID": 11,
			"minheatpenaltylevel": 3,
			"impulse": 0.016, // was 0.04
			"heat": 3, // was 4
			"cooldown": 0,
			"ammoType": "RotaryAC5Ammo",
			"ammoPerShot": 1,
			"tons": 10,
			"duration": -1,
			"lifetime": 4.5, // was 10
			"speed": 1650, // was 1025
			"volleydelay": 0,
			"rof": 8.000, // was 7.275
			"spread": 0.23,
			"gravity": "0,0,-9.8",
			"maxDepth": 10,
			"rampUpTime": 0.50, // was 1
			"rampDownTime": 1.00, // was 2
			"jamRampUpTime": 5.375, // was 6
			"jamRampDownTime": 4.5, // was 10
			"JammingChance": 1.000, // was 0.037
			"JammedTime": 4.5 // was 10
		},
		"ranges": [
			{
				"start": "0",
				"damageModifier": "1.0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			},
			{
				"start": "450",
				"damageModifier": "1.0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			},
			{
				"start": "900",
				"damageModifier": "0",
				"interpolationToNextRange": "linear"
			}
		],
		"inheritfrom": null,
		"cost": null
},

//////// Ammo ////////

	"2063": {
		"name": "RotaryAC2Ammo",
		"category": "ammo",
		"factions": {
			"Clan": false,
			"InnerSphere": true
		},
		"stats": {
			"slots": 1,
			"tons": 1,
			"health": 10
		},
		"ctype": "CAmmoTypeStats",
		"ammotypestats": {
			"type": "RotaryAC2Ammo",
			"internalDamage": 0.7, // was 0.80
			"numShots": 340 // was 300
		},
		"cost": null
	},

	"2065": {
		"name": "RotaryAC5Ammo",
		"category": "ammo",
		"factions": {
			"Clan": false,
			"InnerSphere": true
		},
		"stats": {
			"slots": 1,
			"tons": 1,
			"health": 10
		},
		"ctype": "CAmmoTypeStats",
		"ammotypestats": {
			"type": "RotaryAC5Ammo",
			"internalDamage": 1.1, // was 1.5
			"numShots": 220 // was 150
		},
		"cost": null
	},

	"2064": {
		"name": "RotaryAC2AmmoHalf",
		"category": "ammo",
		"factions": {
			"Clan": false,
			"InnerSphere": true
		},
		"stats": {
			"slots": 1,
			"tons": 0.5,
			"health": 5
		},
		"ctype": "CAmmoTypeStats",
		"ammotypestats": {
			"type": "RotaryAC2Ammo",
			"internalDamage": 0.7, // was 0.80
			"numShots": 170 // was 150
		},
		"cost": null
	},

	"2066": {
		"name": "RotaryAC5AmmoHalf",
		"category": "ammo",
		"factions": {
			"Clan": false,
			"InnerSphere": true
		},
		"stats": {
			"slots": 1,
			"tons": 0.5,
			"health": 5
		},
		"ctype": "CAmmoTypeStats",
		"ammotypestats": {
			"type": "RotaryAC5Ammo",
			"internalDamage": 1.1, // was 1.5
			"numShots": 110 // was 75
		},
		"cost": null
	},


With 2000/1650 velocity for the RAC2/RAC5 respectively, they are now easier to hit. At 0.5s of spin-up spin-down time, they are at least easier to shoot if still hindered.

At 100% jam on the filled gauge, it no longer hinges on RNG, at an absurd time of average 9.71505525773196s stare-time, and the reduced 4.5s jam duration/dissipation should maintain good DPS despite guaranteed short shoot time. The actual jam happens on the actual shot made at the red-line, so the actual jam would happen at the JamRampUpTime + shot interval, which is 0.1s for the RAC2 and 0.125 for the RAC5, making it happen at a flat 5.00s, or 5.5s when the spin-up time is taken account.

Recalculating that, at 0.5s of spin-up time, the RACs jam 100% at 5.5s respectively, that means they have shot 50 / 40 times before jamming, for FIXED 5s of shoot time, and would have dealt 35 / 44 damage respectively.

Now calculating the DPS, the RAC2 have 3.5 EDPS, the RAC5 have 4.4 EDPS -- this kind of nerfs the RAC5 to be just a small nudge away from the original EDPS of 4.82 while still be a small step above the AC10. While the RAC2 received a good DPS buff that puts it between the AC5's 3.01 DPS and the UAC5's 3.91 EDPS, and the best part is that you achieve that with only at 5s of face time. And then adjusting the ammo values to 340/220 respectively to somewhat fit with old damage value.

Taking account of Enchanced UAC/RAC jam-nodes of 15%, the new Jam-Dissipation would sit at 3.825 jam time. The new DPS would have been 3.96600566572238 for the RAC2, and 4.985835694050992 for the RAC5. For perspective, the UAC5's EDPS with jam nodes is 4.123711340206185.

You might be thinking, wouldn't it be less fun because you can only shoot at a maximum amount of time of 5s as opposed of average of 9.7s as the math calculates? Wouldn't the DPS nerf for the RAC5 just straight up destroys it? The thing is that, this trades that shooting time -- which is already stupidly long by common sense -- for the shortened jam time/dissipation, that means you don't have to worry trying to get the most stare at a single encounter, or some idiot teammate going in front of you, cause 10s jam time is pretty long -- just calm down and shoot again. I would say that it's a fair trade for reliability.

As for the RAC5, we could just increase damage across the board if that helps. But i nerfed the RAC5 with respect to other weapons available.

Here's Princess Bubblegum and Finn. Posted Image

Posted Image


If you feel that the RACs need a bit of oomph, that they have really high EDPS to offset their meta-spitting mechanics. Here's a high-power version.

Spoiler


TL;DR
Spoiler

TL;DR

The RAC2 retains damage/shot, but because of the increased ROF into 10 RPS, it boosts upfront DPS to 8. But the RAC5 has it's damage/shot nerf, and ROF adjusted to 8, and would have a flat upfront 10 DPS.

Total of 50 shots for the RAC2 producing 40 damage. Total of 40 for the RAC5 producing 50 damage. Because of this, the end DPS is at 4 EDPS for the RAC2, and EDPS for the RAC5. For reference, the AC5 at the same weight as the RAC2 is at 3.01, likewise the AC10 which is at the same 4 DPS is 4 tons heavier. The RAC5 also has 5 EDPS, for reference the AC20 has the same 5 DPS, but 4 tons heavier.

With enhanced RAC nodes of up to 15%, the jam time/dissipation shrinks to 3.825s, that means the RAC2 would have EDPS of 4.53257790368272, while the RAC5 would have 5.665722379603399 EDPS.

What about an RAC10?

Spoiler



- RAC10 have 1300 velocity, 6 shots/sec, 1.915 damage/shot, 11.49 DPS, 5.745 Effective DPS (accounting jam), 126 ammo/ton to taste, 3.6 heat/sec.


High-power version:

Spoiler


- RAC10 have 1300 velocity, 6 shots/sec, 2.5 damage/shot, 15 DPS, 7.5 Effective DPS (accounting jam), 96 ammo/ton to taste, 3.6 heat/sec


Based on current version:

Spoiler


- RAC10 have 550 velocity, 7.275 shots/sec, 2.25 damage/shot, 16.36875 DPS, 7.028 Effective DPS (accounting jam), 106 ammo/ton to taste, 6 heat/sec

Edited by The6thMessenger, 10 October 2017 - 01:14 AM.


#2 MrVei

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 10:25 PM

this is more how it should be!!! awesome work

#3 The6thMessenger

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 03:43 AM

View PostMrVei, on 21 July 2017 - 10:25 PM, said:

this is more how it should be!!! awesome work


Should we up the GH too?

#4 The6thMessenger

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 05:31 AM

I added a high-power version, if you're interested.

If you feel that the RACs need a bit of oomph, that they have really high EDPS to offset their meta-spitting mechanics. Here's a high-power version.

Spoiler


TL;DR
Spoiler

TL;DR

The RAC2 retains damage/shot, but because of the increased ROF into 10 RPS, it boosts upfront DPS to 8. But the RAC5 has it's damage/shot nerf, and ROF adjusted to 8, and would have a flat upfront 10 DPS.

Total of 50 shots for the RAC2 producing 40 damage. Total of 40 for the RAC5 producing 50 damage. Because of this, the end DPS is at 4 EDPS for the RAC2, and EDPS for the RAC5. For reference, the AC5 at the same weight as the RAC2 is at 3.01, likewise the AC10 which is at the same 4 DPS is 4 tons heavier. The RAC5 also has 5 EDPS, for reference the AC20 has the same 5 DPS, but 4 tons heavier.

With enhanced RAC nodes of up to 15%, the jam time/dissipation shrinks to 3.825s, that means the RAC2 would have EDPS of 4.53257790368272, while the RAC5 would have 5.665722379603399 EDPS.

#5 MechTech Dragoon

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 06:21 AM

Interested in seeing where you got those stat tables from, assuming its a file in mwo?

#6 The6thMessenger

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Posted 08 January 2018 - 11:42 PM

View PostXkrX Dragoon, on 08 January 2018 - 06:21 AM, said:

Interested in seeing where you got those stat tables from, assuming its a file in mwo?


I'm under the impression that they are. After all PGI provides APIs.





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