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Nerf/buff


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#1 Ragnahawk

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 08:04 AM

ISUAC10 is too powerful. Increase to 3 bullets.
Small Pulse damage values too low for clan and IS. Please return
original damage values, and change other values (Heat, Range) to
maintain balance.
Heavy lasers have too much duration.
Heavy Machine Guns are doing too much damage on the shadowcat. I
brought this up in PTS and it was not fixed.
Heavy Gauss has worthless range, Please increase effective range to
350 m. (Nobody is taking that and doing well.)
Light Gauss shouldn't have a charge time... Makes no sense.
Hunchback 4P with 6 light PPCs is messed up visually.
A lot of the clan weapons are trash, they are under preforming and need a buff.
Take a look into increasing ACCEL, DECEL on certain heavy mechs.
PLEASE NERF ARTY, AIRSTRIKES.
BAP shouldn't cancel stealth armor like ECM, 90m bro. 90! Meters!.
Airstrikes are better than rockets. It has minimum range of 50 m and one use. Can't even core out an assault with 4 of them from exact minimum range.
All the new lasers are the same color. Can't even tell if I'm getting shot by a different one. Kind of s****y

Edited by Ragnahawk, 25 July 2017 - 02:33 PM.


#2 Kompleks Ognevoi Podderzhki 320

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 08:35 AM

2 days I played at minimum 6 hours at day. On quick play I have see 1 -2 clan mechs. All anothere mechs - Inner Sphere. I think its becouse clan "OP" and nobody want to be on "OP" mech. Hm... or maybe it becouse new weapon ? 55 bushwacker dealing 100 dMG at 3 - 4 sec... I repeat ! 55 ... tons.... 100 dmg... But maybe u say > clans have powerful.... (what ?)

#3 Ragnahawk

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 02:03 PM

Does anybody have anything to add?

#4 Appuagab

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 02:58 PM

View PostRagnahawk, on 21 July 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

Heavy lasers have too much duration.

I'm ok with heavy lasers. That slow, evaporating Master Spark actually makes them feel like HEAVY LASERS. However, I always take all laser duration nodes so I'm not sure how they feel without them.

View PostRagnahawk, on 21 July 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

Take a look into increasing ACCEL, DECEL on certain heavy mechs.

Timber Wolf certainly needs mobility buff. He's probably the least mobile heavy now. It really hurts his variety of playstyles. I'm usually using mid-long range vomit or arm mounted UAC20 so it's acceptable to be a walking turret with these builds, but can't imagine using him for SRM brawling for example. If PGI believes that his lack of mobility is balanced by jets, they are totally wrong.

View PostRagnahawk, on 21 July 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

PLEASE NERF ARTY, AIRSTRIKES.

++++

#5 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 03:03 PM

View PostRagnahawk, on 21 July 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

ISUAC10 is too powerful. Increase to 3 bullets.


Lolno. What brought you to this conclusion?

Lets compare IS UAC10 to Clan UAC10.

IS:

7 slots
13 tons
450m range
4 heat

Clan:

4 slots
10 tons
540m range
3 heat

If anything, the IS UAC10 needs to generate the same amount of heat as the Clan one. The 3 extra slots and 3 extra tons and loss of 90m range can buy the one-less projectile compared to Clan.

In application, compare a 2 UAC10 2 UAC5 Mad Cat Mk. II to a 2 UAC10 2 UAC5 Mauler. The downside to run the same loadout is HUGE! There is no reason to nerf the UAC10, if anything it should get buffed so it isn't generating more heat than the Clan version.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 July 2017 - 03:37 PM.


#6 Khobai

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 03:37 PM

Quote

Heavy Gauss has worthless range, Please increase effective range to
350 m. (Nobody is taking that and doing well.)


heavy gauss should just be 22 damage, 570m/1140m range, 1500m/s, and 6s+1s cooldown

its never going to work as a fail 180m brawling weapon thats worse than an AC10

it needs to be a gauss weapon to work and those stats make it a gauss weapon

Edited by Khobai, 21 July 2017 - 03:40 PM.


#7 CraneArmy

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 01:04 AM

Quote

ISUAC10 is too powerful. Increase to 3 bullets.

UAC10 is strong, it works on a lot of IS mechs like the warhammer and jaeger, but its hot and negates the ability to take many more weapons. As long as a hbk IIC can run 2 uac 20's there is no good argument for nerfing IS uac10's. If anything, the most reasonable approach would be to take the ammo count back down a little, to 16-18 (32-36 for the is UAC10) in line with the other AC's.

Quote

Small Pulse damage values too low for clan and IS. Please return
original damage values, and change other values (Heat, Range) to
maintain balance

small pulse are in a niche place right now. I'm not sure that's a bad thing.
Boating a buttload of small pulse was a problem. They are still better dps/ton and damage/heat than most other weapons, so I dont know that they need a buff.
Small mechs liike the cheetah that needed them to be effective before, but now have heavy lasers, which are exponentially better on those mechs than spl ever were. Mechs like the gargoyle and executioner are the only ones that would see a real gain from a spl buff, and mechs like that boating 13+ spl is just cheese.


Quote

Heavy lasers have too much duration.

Negative.
Heavy lasers are the strongest thing they added in this whole patch. I'm dropping massive damage consistently with everything I put heavy lasers on.

Quote

Heavy Gauss has worthless range, Please increase effective range to
350 m. (Nobody is taking that and doing well.)

I havent even tried H-Gauss yet. But 350 is probably reasonable. Its an extreme brawl weapon that you can only play on a mech with a standard engine, and the ammo is too precious to dump at 500m, even with the very long max range. I'm willing to bet, the max speed you could get any mech to with a heavy gauss to without skipping leg armor / or ammo is less than 75kph. With the non-existance of extreme brawl maps this weapon is either going to sit on the shelf or get picked up as a novelty. I dont know if that's a bad thing. IMHO not everything in the game has to be meta, but atm its not viable.

Quote

Light Gauss shouldn't have a charge time... Makes no sense.

it does have a reduced charge time. I kinda wish that none of the gauss had charge times, but I do understand the reason for it.

PLEASE LOOK HERE PGI: the best thing that could be done for gauss right now is just to make it so it only explodes while charged.

It makes sense, would help out IS mechs that can only run them in side torsos with xl's (whm-6r, and hbk-gi) and doesnt really help the meta gauss spam, because mechs like the nite gyr can only run them in their arms, and already have case at no cost anyway.

Quote

A lot of the clan weapons are trash, they are under preforming and need a buff.

The ATMs are not great, the damage cliffs are weird to navigate without letting a mech inside the 110 danger zone. Heavy lasers are incredible. 78alpha hbk-IIC's and 108alpha MKII's without ghost heat cannot be denied.

Quote

Take a look into increasing ACCEL, DECEL on certain heavy mechs.

I havent found a mech since the engine desync whose accel / decel cant be fixed by going into the mobility tree.

Quote

Timber Wolf certainly needs mobility buff. He's probably the least mobile heavy now. It really hurts his variety of playstyles. I'm usually using mid-long range vomit or arm mounted UAC20 so it's acceptable to be a walking turret with these builds, but can't imagine using him for SRM brawling for example. If PGI believes that his lack of mobility is balanced by jets, they are totally wrong.

It is a 75 tonner, and still probably more mobile than every other 75 tonner. (black knight, orions, night gyr, marauder) none of these mechs are going to easily run 87kph with as much firepower as the mad cat which also has jump jets. But it is a glass cannon. Its not hands down THE BEST mech in mwo like it used to be (when it could go toe to toe with litteraly anything anywhere anytime), but if you are having trouble with the Mad Cat its not because its a weak chassis, its because you arnt playing to its strengths.

Quote

PLEASE NERF ARTY, AIRSTRIKES.

Absolutely. Cool shots needed to be nerfed. They were incredibly strong, but airstrikes and artys are perhaps stronger than the coolshots were. If anyone needs proof, look at the MRBC shoutcasts from the end of the season. Trade phase turned into airstrike phase. You might as well have a long tom.


Kudos on the sound effects btw PGI, everyone I have talked to loves them, especially the component destruction, awesoome idea! Very punchy, very well done. Ive seen some of the best cool ideas come into this game just in the last couple months, you guys are doing great!

#8 CraneArmy

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 01:41 AM

View PostCraneArmy, on 22 July 2017 - 01:04 AM, said:

I havent even tried H-Gauss yet. But 350 is probably reasonable. Its an extreme brawl weapon that you can only play on a mech with a standard engine, and the ammo is too precious to dump at 500m, even with the very long max range. I'm willing to bet, the max speed you could get any mech to with a heavy gauss to without skipping leg armor / or ammo is less than 75kph. With the non-existance of extreme brawl maps this weapon is either going to sit on the shelf or get picked up as a novelty. I dont know if that's a bad thing. IMHO not everything in the game has to be meta, but atm its not viable.


I did check myself on this. If you wanted to run only a H-Gauss, you could get up to about 75kph with the orion and the cataphract without making any huge other concessions (other than bringing only a h-gauss).

The shadowhawk might be the most reasonable chasis to bring this on though as you can get it to ~85kph (i didnt check if I had speed tweaked this already), with 5-6 tons of ammo, it would still be extremely gimped, but probably fun. The SDK-5M ~75-80 kph with some er-mediums and the H-gauss is probably be he best way to run a h-gauss on any chasis.

The only other way to run this would be as a last stand point defense weapon for something like a mauler or the king crab hero (kaiju or whatever srry). but this would be less fun, and you are sinking way too much into a weapon that you only use when cursing because you got face checked by red team @ 300m

#9 Excalibaard

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 01:53 AM

View PostKompleks Ognevoi Podderzhki 320, on 21 July 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

2 days I played at minimum 6 hours at day. On quick play I have see 1 -2 clan mechs. All anothere mechs - Inner Sphere. I think its becouse clan "OP" and nobody want to be on "OP" mech. Hm... or maybe it becouse new weapon ? 55 bushwacker dealing 100 dMG at 3 - 4 sec... I repeat ! 55 ... tons.... 100 dmg... But maybe u say > clans have powerful.... (what ?)


4xSRM6+A deals 100 dmg in 4 sec too. Standard build on 55t mediums, so I don't know what the problem is here.

Disagree with the 'balance' suggestions posted. I just wish PGI would be consistent with their weapon balancing (and even then, it's difficult to translate tabletop balance to FPS balance).

The new weapons are generally in a good spot. They just feel more powerful because you haven't been adjusted to play against them yet. RACs and MRMs have a lot of disruption, but also a lot of face time that you can use to fire an entire heavy laser into one component. UAC 10s have bad stats, but better pinpoint than clan, so it fits the curve.

PGI kinda dropped the ball with the energy rebalance though. Instead of re-imagining the energy class (which is what rebalances are normally for) they just did a big individual weapons overhaul. What they should do is to take base values, and then modify those based on the type of the weapon. Example in spoiler below.

Spoiler

Edited by Excalibaard, 22 July 2017 - 02:11 AM.


#10 Oogalook

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 07:13 AM

CraneArmy speaks the truth. Things are pretty great.

One thing, though: dual HGauss is *not ok*. 50 damage high velocity pinpoint alpha at medium range has evaporated the torsos off my Uzeils far to frequently, not that it takes more than a saucy slap to destroy said torso ordinarily. Anyway, the Mauler absolutely did not need any more killer apps, cause now it is everywhere and a TTK of .5 millifarts is supreme letdown for everybody running mediums.

I say, limit the max number of hgauss being charged to 1. Still twice as shooty with 2 of them, but less pointy and less unfair to Mediums, which have neither the speed to dodge nor the armor to tank such fire.

#11 Solink

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 08:38 AM

View PostKompleks Ognevoi Podderzhki 320, on 21 July 2017 - 08:35 AM, said:

2 days I played at minimum 6 hours at day. On quick play I have see 1 -2 clan mechs. All anothere mechs - Inner Sphere. I think its becouse clan "OP" and nobody want to be on "OP" mech. Hm... or maybe it becouse new weapon ? 55 bushwacker dealing 100 dMG at 3 - 4 sec... I repeat ! 55 ... tons.... 100 dmg... But maybe u say > clans have powerful.... (what ?)

With all the new IS tech IS is dominating clans atm. In part due to the Rac/2s and Rac/5s I feel that clan should have gotten those and the heavy/light gauss weapons. From what I'm seeing the racs are devastating mechs. They chew through armor like a sandblaster. With the stuff that clan got it is rather unbalanced to the clans from what I am seeing.

#12 Ragnahawk

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 09:00 AM

This is the fuel cell deposit box, put in your suggestions so we can get long toms.

#13 Ragnahawk

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 10:06 AM

Someone please email pgi to put small pulse lasers back to their damage..

#14 Y E O N N E

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 12:42 PM

View PostCraneArmy, on 22 July 2017 - 01:04 AM, said:

UAC10 is strong, it works on a lot of IS mechs like the warhammer and jaeger, but its hot and negates the ability to take many more weapons. As long as a hbk IIC can run 2 uac 20's there is no good argument for nerfing IS uac10's. If anything, the most reasonable approach would be to take the ammo count back down a little, to 16-18 (32-36 for the is UAC10) in line with the other AC's.


And continue to curtail the weapon's ability to be brought with anything else? I think not.

There is a very, very good reason PGI buffed the ammo on IS 10-class to 20 (then later added Clans to the fun).

#15 The Trumpet of Gabriel

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Posted 22 July 2017 - 04:57 PM

View PostSolink, on 22 July 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

With all the new IS tech IS is dominating clans atm. In part due to the Rac/2s and Rac/5s I feel that clan should have gotten those and the heavy/light gauss weapons. From what I'm seeing the racs are devastating mechs. They chew through armor like a sandblaster. With the stuff that clan got it is rather unbalanced to the clans from what I am seeing.


I would say that Rac's are good situationally as in a team push when the enemy is in the open, but it's very poor as a trading weapon. High alpha laser vomit will win in a poky trading engagement every time.

#16 Jay Sovereign

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:33 AM

Yeah, I have something to add. I remember reading years ago that this is how PGI acts. I now have learned my lesson, and have put down the game. Haven't played since they made clan small pulse do 4 dmg. I have been feeling so much better since I took a break from playing MechWarrior Online because there is a lot less frustration and boredom in my life now.

With each update, they do the opposite of what you'd think they do. They don't understand "testing" or "balance" and I'm not going to be the one who pays them to test their game.

The game is loosing its fun value. Some are becoming disillusioned. Even if you rise to the top 10 in the leaderboards, it doesn't mean anything cuz the devs straight up don't care about you (hedonistic, careless attitudes) and the community at large simply doesn't get it. It's boring.

Gameplay has been the exact same (except getting less fun and more unbalanced) for years now despite every 6 months stupid drastic changes (to mech and weapon balance) requires me to be the unpayed testing for all of these crap changes.

Edited by Jay Sovereign, 27 July 2017 - 02:54 PM.


#17 CraneArmy

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 03:48 AM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 22 July 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:


And continue to curtail the weapon's ability to be brought with anything else? I think not.

There is a very, very good reason PGI buffed the ammo on IS 10-class to 20 (then later added Clans to the fun).

I'm not really saying they need to be nerfed, just that they are strong.
The AC-10's are overweight right down the line with the exception of the lb10. I know that's why they buffed the ammo count, But the ammo count is much better than every other weapon in the AC line, so if they were going to get nerfed, that would be the most sensible place to do it,

#18 Y E O N N E

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 02:43 PM

View PostCraneArmy, on 23 July 2017 - 03:48 AM, said:

I'm not really saying they need to be nerfed, just that they are strong.
The AC-10's are overweight right down the line with the exception of the lb10. I know that's why they buffed the ammo count, But the ammo count is much better than every other weapon in the AC line, so if they were going to get nerfed, that would be the most sensible place to do it,


I think rate of fire is more likely, since the base is a pretty amazing "4.00", which is also a disparate jump from the AC/5 and makes the AC/20 look like a raw deal if DPS is your angle. Nerfing the ammo count has further reaching consequences than just nerfing the AC/10.

#19 Bishop Six

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Posted 23 July 2017 - 11:30 PM

View PostJay Sovereign, on 23 July 2017 - 02:33 AM, said:

Yeah, I have something to add. I remember reading years ago that this is how PGI acts. I now have learned my lesson, and have put down the game. Haven't played since they made clan small pulse do 4 dmg. I have been feeling so much better since I took a break from playing MechWarrior Online because there is a lot less frustration and boredom in my life now.

With each update, they do the opposite of what you'd think they do. They don't understand "testing" or "balance" and I'm not going to be the one who pays them to test their game.

The game is loosing its fun value. Some are becoming disillusioned. Even if you rise to the top 10 in the leaderboards, it doesn't mean anything cuz the devs straight up don't care about you (hedonistic, careless attitudes) and the community at large simply doesn't get it. It's boring.

Gameplay has been the exact same (except getting less fun and more unbalanced) for years now despite every 6 months stupid drastic changes to mech and weapon balance requires me to be the unpayed testing for all of these crap changes.


Do not judge others by your's own standards. If YOU are bored it only says that YOU are bored, not that everyone is bored. If you have no fun it doesn't mean that everyone has no fun.

I have much more fun since the new weapons came out and most of my teammates are thinking the same.

#20 BTGbullseye

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 12:17 AM

View PostBishop Six, on 23 July 2017 - 11:30 PM, said:

I have much more fun since the new weapons came out and most of my teammates are thinking the same.

Of course you are... You're running IS with the OP RAC5's... :P





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