138 replies to this topic

[Bless_O_Blee]

So lets talk about faction warfare. With all the new tech that has been released it would probably be a good idea to increase the tonnage for the clanners now for faction warfare. Just a thought PGI.

[Ductus Hase]

As I just wrote in the other thread on this topic:

"Right now the Balance appears to be alright:
Had 3 matches as premade against a premade yesterday - Clans won 2:1 - very close and we had great fun."

Edited by Ductus Hase, 22 July 2017 - 03:28 PM.

[Kali Rinpoche]

I think we can say good bye to the IS 265 ton Drop weight. I'm seeing closer to 50/50 this time around in matches. Even though our new weapon systems drastically weigh more than our Clan counterparts, IS is getting closer to balance.

I'm guessing IS will be dropped to 255 after Event.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 22 July 2017 - 05:11 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

Kali Rinpoche, on 22 July 2017 - 05:11 PM, said:

I think we can say good bye to the IS 265 ton Drop weight. I'm seeing closer to 50/50 this time around in matches. Even though our new weapon systems drastically weigh more than our Clan counterparts, IS is getting closer to balance.

I'm guessing IS will be dropped to 255 after Event.

What will be funny is when it drops the "Clan" mercs testing out the IS equipment start will then back over to Clan space....

Edited

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 23 July 2017 - 07:51 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

240 vs 265 because reasons


They should probably go with a variable system by now which gives tier 5s and such like 30 ton handicaps but gives tier 1s just the base 240.

Blanket tonnage handicaps is bad bad bad.

[Appogee]

The balance feels fairly close at the moment ... but I'm certain we'll see Clan get its tonnage increased after this event.

Ironically, I am using very little of the new weapons/engines/armor in my IS decks, because they're mostly worse than the existing options in the context of FP. (Light Ferro and LFE come in handy here and there, as do a couple of the weapons.)

PGI will of course be overly optimistic about the impact of the new tech, and fail to take into account the huge impact of merc units whose skill/teamwork and regular FP sway the stats.

Not playing their own game regularly means they don't know what goes on, and bonus... and hey, why even care about hamfisted balancing when you're not personally affected by it?

Edited by Appogee, 23 July 2017 - 02:36 AM.

[Hanky Spam]

Tarl Cabot, on 22 July 2017 - 05:15 PM, said:

What will be funny is when it drops the mercs testing out the IS equipment will head back over to Clan space....

The Merc population is already since weeks pretty much balanced (at least those Merc-Units that I would rank with good until top tier) and that not only since the Civil War Patch.

Also alot of Merc Units switch sides in a regular schedule (like every two weeks).

That's imho an exaggeration to say that everyone will head back in a few weeks to Clan space...

[Kill Chain]

Tonnage is fine. Things actually seem fairly balanced right now.

[Ssamout]

Hanky Spam, on 23 July 2017 - 02:33 AM, said:

The Merc population is already since weeks pretty much balanced (at least those Merc-Units that I would rank with good until top tier) and that not only since the Civil War Patch.

Also alot of Merc Units switch sides in a regular schedule (like every two weeks).

That's imho an exaggeration to say that everyone will head back in a few weeks to Clan space...

This has been the case pretty much since the one bucket of gruel came. Perhaps even longer. Its the ammount of bad that really makes most difference.

[DANKnuggz]

So PGI has stated the 25 tons is because of where the skilled players choose to play... Which means PGI has basically admitted they're morons because only an absolute idiot would try to balance a game based on skill rather than MECHANICS...

Let players PLAY WHERE THEY WANT... I got tired of constantly fighting bigger mechs and just quit playing FP for the most part.... That is the reality of what PGI's policy of balancing FP based on player skill is causing. As many mercs just choose to quit playing FP or MWO altogether as actually switch to IS.

That isn't even taking into account all the loyalists who just get sick of it and quit.

I'm not sure how the major merc groups feel about this but i highly resent being herded like we're cattle. Under performing IS players need to up their game on their own through build optimization and better tactics not be granted handicap wins through extra tonnage or carried by more skilled players being forced to their side.

The skilled players this kind of "balance" is attempting to push to the IS side aren't fighting for the clans because of rewards (most are rolling in C-bills) or because they win as clans (they're good enough they'd win on IS also), its because they have more FUN playing their clan mechs pure and simple. Mercs are mercs mostly because they want to play where they want to play WHEN they want to play there and not be bullied onto one side or the other.

All clanners should not suffer simply because the majority of skilled players aren't IS fanboys...

[Tamashii]

Kill Chain, on 23 July 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

Tonnage is fine. Things actually seem fairly balanced right now.

öhm...No

[Nightnovaa]

increase clan tonnage just a tad, BUT most of all let us bring 55 tons to scouting, IS has the Bushwacker (which is tanky AF) FOREVER now (not all the high end merc units are clan, YES PGI I REMEMBER YOU CHANGED THE TONNAGES ON CLANS FOR THAT REASON!) and the Uzeil now, would be nice if we could bring all our mechs to scouting.

[Leone]

Actually, I have an appeal from the IS side for a friend who doesn't pilot assualts. We need to reduce IS tonnage down to 240 again. Think of the light pilots who cannot bring a light lest they leave tonnage on the table because they refuse to bring assaults they're no good in.

Think of the locusts, sitting unused, but not unloved. Someone, please think of the lights pilots!

~Leone.

[Pariah Devalis]

I'd so rather the IS tonnage be decreased rather than Clan tonnage increased. I say that as a Clan Loyalist, at that. Too much weight to throw around at 265. It should take serious consideration to invest your tonnage into two assault mechs. Right now, with 265, you can manage two 85 ton mechs, and still have tonnage left over for a heavy and a light. It cheapens the whole "tonnage limit" thing.

[Honeybadgers]

went 2 wins to 21 losses today as a clanner (and I was routinely one of the top three players, so I don't think I'm the problem.) Definitely balanced.

I'd like to see IS tonnage decreased. I'd like to see our tonnage match IS. And let us bring 55T into scout, because the bushwacker just rolls over us and we desperately need to be able to bring the stormcrow to bear against the IS. We are losing everything right now, I don't even want to touch my clan mechs in quick play and I'm only playing faction for the money, because our tech is worthless.

ATM's are crispy fried puke, fire too slow, too easily shot down, move too slowly, minimum range is ridiculous, the arc is dumb, the damage is too spread, the weapons themselves are too big and too heavy to be of any use on skirmishing mechs (the only ones that can use them right now) and even more easily negated outright than LRM's ever were.

Micro lasers are fun and balanced but not a game changer, only giving us options to fill out beam slots. Heavy medium lasers feel like they're in a good place (3 or 4 max on a mech makes for a great support gun and the critical space required is enough to ensure they can't be boated) but small and large heavy are just uselessly hot.

Basically, clan mechs went from nice and versatile (arguably with better LRM's still, but that's largely irrelevant in tier 1-2) but the real limiting factor was that IS didn't have the streaks, UAC's (which are now far better than ours due to fewer projectiles) or LBX's or ER lasers. Now they not only have all that, but better UAC's, their non-ER lasers are extremely good for boating since they are much more heat efficient, they got a ton of INSANELY useful PPC's, a vicious gauss rifle, a light gauss that has some utility, rocket launchers that fill a nice "one open missile slot" niche, and MRM's that are probably one of the best, most versatile and well balanced weapons in the game.

And before you say "now you know how it feels," I didn't like the overpowered clan gauss/peep meta and refused to run it. I don't want to be overpowered. I want my new tech to actually feel like it fits a niche, because as it stands, I find that the more I mess with these weapons, I keep winding up putting my mechs back right the hell back the way they were, with a few tiny exceptions of switching in a few heavy medium lasers. I was keen on the idea of a shadow cat with 3 ATM racks and 2 heavy medium lasers doing awesome hit and run tactics like I used to with 3 SRM 4's and 2 ERLL. But it's terrible by comparison, the ATM's are just worthless. I might have stuck with the heavy mediums but IS mechs are all completely deadly within 600 meters so I find that I have to just sit back again with my ERLL's and snipe, because the only place we still trade evenly or better is at 700-1000 meters. My Trolldiak is the only mech in my 50 mech garage that can still go toe to toe with the IS mechs, running quad LB10. But it's a rough, scary fight.

At this rate, if nothing changes within a couple months I'm going to have to jump ship and go davion. Because I keep finding myself buying more IS mechs because even without the omnipod swapping, the quirks and new tech just make IS mechs better.

Edited by Honeybadgers, 23 July 2017 - 10:44 PM.

[Laser Kiwi]

i played a few FP games, the ones where we were organised we won, the ones we weren't we lost.

Seems balanced, or at least better than the rofl stomp that was tukkayid.

My thoughts are that i would happily take a minor tonnage reduction, i have no problem knocking off a commando and putting in a locust, i love my locust but the tonnage is not optimal for the other mechs, so a reduction would make me play the locust without feeling like i'm shortchanging the team on available tonnage, maybe they could start with IS at 260 or 255, i don't want the clanners to get to 260 though because i still think many clan mechs are better and providing 4 x 65 tons average might be a mistake.

Light engines are not anywhere near as good as clan XL, RAC's are great for blinding your opponent but require serious face tanking and the other stuff is just fluff. (except the new ultras acs are pretty good)

Our ultra 20's still weigh 3 more than clan ones so the balance is there IMO. Any large knee jerk reaction to an even fight would be a mistake, its not like the clans are getting smashed, the graphs are running 50/50 most of the time and if not they will when some units change sides again. As a loyalist i don't have that option so any changes affect my winning chance more than a merc.

[Laser Kiwi]

Nightnova, on 23 July 2017 - 07:50 PM, said:

increase clan tonnage just a tad, BUT most of all let us bring 55 tons to scouting, IS has the Bushwacker (which is tanky AF) FOREVER now (not all the high end merc units are clan, YES PGI I REMEMBER YOU CHANGED THE TONNAGES ON CLANS FOR THAT REASON!) and the Uzeil now, would be nice if we could bring all our mechs to scouting.

I thought stormcrow laser vomit dominated when the tonnage was 55, i wonder if IS would simply start losing every scouting match if it goes to 55, because clan mechs still are superior on average, well maybe not the Nova cause it has no endo/FF and you can't change it. The thing is clan mechs are actually supposed to be better, but you can't have that on an online game matching 2 groups with the same numbers if one guy gets better stuff, its not great for online gaming.

The whole thing is inherently flawed, clans should only have had lostech, not super tech but the original battletech TT guys stuffed that up when they first conceived it. Somehow in the future war doesn't cause technology to improve, but to go backwards, its usually the other way round, war makes people come up with better gear to make killing each other easier, if anything the clans should have come back and been slaughtered by a battle hardened inner sphere that hasn't seen peace for centuries, that's my take.

[Ssamout]

It could be fun and refreshing if the tonnage would be swiched around a bit more. Like for an event where you have pack lighter decks, or an assault event where the cap is 300+ ..

[TWIAFU]

Tamashii, on 23 July 2017 - 12:28 PM, said:

öhm...No

And then change it back when all the lemmings get tired of new toys and go back Clan.

[The Basilisk]

The tonnage limit has been increased on IS side simply for the old and (with most reasonable ppl I know) well known fact that you get for every thing that an IS mech can do at least one clan mech that is 10t lighter and will do the same thing while beeing faster and vastly more maneuverable (engine decoupling or not)

Clans please stop the crying.
IS Light engine is still way heavyer than clan XL and IS Weapons are still way heavyer and more bulky than Clan weapons, and no new IS weapons do nothing better than the old ones (in fact hey are often crappy jokes and will end unpractical and unused)
They just add a new flavor.

Edited by The Basilisk, 24 July 2017 - 04:00 AM.