96 replies to this topic

[sjws are theproblem]

ok maby it just has not dawned on me.
but how do you deal with ac5 rot. mechs?
they can just blast threw you with no care, and god forbid more than one person has them. they make just about every AC weapon useless by comparison.
has anyone found a setup that punishes these builds?

[LowSubmarino]

one punch bot, on 24 July 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

ok maby it just has not dawned on me.
but how do you deal with ac5 rot. mechs?
they can just blast threw you with no care, and god forbid more than one person has them. they make just about every AC weapon useless by comparison.
has anyone found a setup that punishes these builds?

They come at severe disadvantages.

Moving and turning targets that counter their constant face time racs with no face time weapons (eg. ac 10) will destroy mechs that boat racs.

Face them head on and walk in a straight line towards them or backwards is a bad call naturally.

If you twist properly and use movement and have a decent loadout you should actually smile when facing such weapons.

Theyll have to work through your arms first while you hit their torsos again and again.

They die.

You live

[Willard Phule]

If they'd stopped the clock at 3069 instead of 3067, we'd have them too.

[Mystere]

one punch bot, on 24 July 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

ok maby it just has not dawned on me.
but how do you deal with ac5 rot. mechs?

KEEP MOVING, to the nearest cover if at all possible!

Edited by Mystere, 24 July 2017 - 07:02 AM.

[0bsidion]

Just out of curiosity, how many RACs was the mech you were fighting using? I know from experiencing just using 1 or 2 is pretty underwhelming, but I haven't tried 3+. Of course there are several weapons that become much more dangerous when boated in large quantities.

I'd have thought with the massive heat spikes though, anything past 2 would quickly become untenable, because even 2 can get you to overheating pretty quick.

[Mad Porthos]

A large part of "dakka" is intimidation factor. Rotary has that in spades. The thing is, lightly spraying your opponent with just a crossing barrage of rotary fire does not do much damage, but is hella fun and and intimidating in a way that autocannon fans really appreciate and their targets absolutely dread. The thing is, a rotary ac 5 is deceptive with its numbers, particularly for those who have just glanced over the patch notes and never really used autocannons extensively.

Unlike standard IS autocannon lineup firing single large projectile doing 5, or even clan autocannons firing bursts of smaller damage bullets to make up that same amount, the rotary5 is being denoted I gather for the amount of damage it can do in a set period of time, AFTER spin up. Regardless of the spin up time, once firing you would figure it's pretty lethal. But as shown in it's firepower rating, which is not DPS, but rather damage per ten seconds, it's doing 54.6 for it's firepower. That's 54.6 damage in ten seconds of sustained fire on one panel. I know it may feel an eternity when hearing plinking of fire, but no one with a rac5 is keeping that 10 second stare on one panel of your mech. Also, note that there is a spin up time before the rac5 even starts firing in that 10 seconds and likely the guy using it MUST let up off the firing to cool or because he'd be wasting ammo spitting shots out into open space as your mech dodges, weaves or ducks behind cover.

Further, the rac5 isn't the fastest projectile and even with projectile velocity quirks from mechs and skill nodes, I'm not sure it gets any more fast/accurate YET. I'm not an experimenter, but it didn't seem so when I tried it out in mechs giving hefty buffs to velocity... the "spread" that's built into the rac5 seems to also throw things off further making sure that 54.6 is not able to all land on one panel of the mech. Considering the 1 second rac5 spin up, if the math has been done right, the rac5 having a firepower of 54.6/9(10sec - 1 second spin up)= 6.06 dps. I could be off, but I think the UAC5 when not jamming, when double tapping has a 6.02 dps (even counting jams is like almost 4dps) AND it's easier to get one single or two 5 damage IS uac shells on target, even the same torso. I'm not a math genius and I may be missing more to this, but the rotary is mainly flash.

The individual projectile fired by the rac5 is doing 1.35 damage per bullet. Less than those ac2's people have been plinking at people with for years. People know not to ignore that ac2 plinking, but I think understand that a few taps won't hurt, it's massed ac2s that add up quickly, hitting in sync they sound just like single ac2 strike but say one is firing 4ac2 at once, the damage is respectable without sounding intimidating. Well the rac5 is the reverse of this. Many small bullets are hitting in succession, but they make a pretty darn loud sound each so give the impression of overwhelming firepower, also sometimes blinding levels of impact if fired at the enemy cockpit area. But their damage is only going to add up if you let it. So far, I see people hit by rac5 fire reel in shock, and throw their mechs in reverse to get behind cover. This is ideal for the rac5 user, because even the targets are shaking torso side to side, you get to focus rounds on target, keeping up the intimidating roar. That target would be better off going full throttle and running forward and forcing the rac5 user to turn and try to keep his bullet stream on target. If trying to do this, much of it will wander off target and all over many different less critical hit locations giving you a chance to get to cover and then take alphas at moments when you are willing to trade vs. the relatively low dps when you briefly expose.

Everything I'm saying here about Rac5 applies to 2's as well. They do even less. All these are more or less super duper machineguns now, with spread. What you don't want to do is try to face tank them, you need to spread by movement movement movement and use of cover. You also can seek to provide a myriad of opponents to the rac user, double teaming and sharing armor, trying to tease the rac user into firing at one opponent while the other is setting up a good shot, then ducking back. Rac spin up time must also be brought in to play. No matter how good the user is at seeing when they need to spin up and letting up the moment they are wasting ammo there comes a time they will fill bar and jam. That's a moment to pounce on.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 24 July 2017 - 08:25 AM.

[Lostdragon]

The best counter to RACs is moving at 90 degree angles relative to them while twisting. When the barrage stops after a few seconds, turn and unload. Rinse and repeat.

[bbihah]

If you are forced to fight a RAC5 head on, example you are stuck in the open. Twisting will make the damage it does to any one component near nothing.

Just twist and twist back to fire every time your weapons go off cooldown. Then when his 10 seconds of fun is over, you start unloading on him until he dies. Preferrably you could just shoot whatever component the RAC is housed in and destroy it so even after the 10 second jam is over, you wont have to worry anymore.


Even if you were to stand completely still and take the full rac5 barrage on your mech. Expect at BEST, around 30 damage to a component if you are in a big mech.

[R Valentine]

Just peek in and out of cover, then jump them while they're on CD. RAC mechs are stupid easy to deal with. You can also just keep twisting until they jam, and then they're down for hours.

[Monkey Lover]

Just keep moving and twisting until they jam. The only way you die from a rac5 is if you stand in one place.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Spread damage, slap them with a large alpha with a short burn time, go back to spreading damage, repeat with alpha and spreading until they die.

RAC5s spread very easily, you can send the damage all over while you put shots directly into whatever component you want since they have to face you the whole time.

[Mcgral18]

Shooting them tends to work pretty well

[The6thMessenger]

It's only a problem if you're out of position, or your enemy is actually competent and not the same idiot that gets easily nabbed by lrm boats.

The RAC5 do have a really really powerful upfront DPS for it's burst, but that's "balanced" by the long face-time it has to do, the spread damage, and the RNG aspect that just really needs to go away.

[Vellron2005]

one punch bot, on 24 July 2017 - 06:49 AM, said:

ok maby it just has not dawned on me.
but how do you deal with ac5 rot. mechs?
they can just blast threw you with no care, and god forbid more than one person has them. they make just about every AC weapon useless by comparison.
has anyone found a setup that punishes these builds?

Simple..

1)You see a RAC-boat Annihilator.

2) You pop a UAV and go behind cover.

3) Commence Bombardment. Let the LURM rain.

4) Alternatively, you do the same thing you do when facing a DakkaWhale.. you go for it's back.

I am always amazed at how people look for counters for certain mechs and certain builds.. ANY mech, ANY build can be countered by TEAMWORK.

Teamwork is always OP.

This is why I always say a good team should have 2-3 LRM boats and scouts, so you can counter threats that are unwise to attack with direct fire..

Works magic on big mechs with lots of direct fire.. and its hilarious to see guys who boat dakka in FP like a boss QQ and come cry on the forums about how LRMs are OP and how Polar Highlands doesn't have enough cover.. like.. duh.. don't bring a dakka king crab to FP on Polar..

Edited by Vellron2005, 25 July 2017 - 12:11 AM.

[The6thMessenger]

Vellron2005, on 25 July 2017 - 12:07 AM, said:

Teamwork is always OP.

Except Urbies. Once a little bugger drops on the battlefield, it's all over.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 July 2017 - 12:09 AM.

[Aleski]

I usa high alpha pin point brawler since new tech.

Examples :
Dragon Flame with LFE300 + AC/20 + SNPPC
Marauder 3R with LFE325 + AC/20 + 2xSNPPC
Protector with LFE325 + Gauss + SNPPC + 2xASRM6

On the clan side, i have a Redline with 6xMPL, works like a charm too.

When you face a RAC/5 mech, go in range while using covers, when in range strike with high alpha and twist like a crazy. You will not die if play wisely. They are very hot and tend to jam or overheat in a brawl.

The light mechs are great against RAC too cause those weapons have bad velocity, so it's hard to focus on them. I use Grinner, Huggin, Ember, PB, Cheetah, Anansi : they work well if you run like a crazy.

[Missile Magic]

Rotary needs a nerf, its pointless using assault mechs at the moment.

Far to much damage.

[Zergling]

RACs are so terrible you don't need any specific tactics to beat them; the normal meta tactics of poking in and out of cover beats them hilariously easily.

Pretty much the only thing RACs are 'ok' against is Stare Warriors; the potatoes that don't spread damage at all, just let enemy mechs focus all their damage into the CT.

Edited by Zergling, 25 July 2017 - 01:53 AM.

[LordNothing]

i havent been able to use them to any effect. id rather take a uac10 or 20, or anything else really.

[Shifty McSwift]

Zergling, on 25 July 2017 - 01:53 AM, said:

RACs are so terrible you don't need any specific tactics to beat them; the normal meta tactics of poking in and out of cover beats them hilariously easily.

And good old fashioned twisting.

They are pretty decent at punishing people who push out into open channels, and 1v1 vs an accurate RAC wielder can be painful from the visual effect on its target alone. It is easy to see why they are getting compared to LRMs in that sense, great for "easy mode" (depending on who you ask), turret style playing. But like LRMs they have their usages, and in QP you can make a lot of weird and shameful weapon combos "work" in how you can farm score and cbills from them.