122 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

Quote

Both are pretty ridiculous...

ok so lets not have strikes at all. im fine with that too.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Generally, I don't mind them. In pugs and in usually in group play they're ok.

Not fun only when an organised team decides to strikespam you to oblivion, in FP that means a strike every few seconds for half the match, often on tunnely maps where you don't have much room to manouver because map design. Git gud and outspam them, because neither team can avoid them? Sound like fun, no?

Longer cooldown would limit the extent to which they can be abused. Or maybe the cooldown should raise by 1 second after every use - that should be very convincing to "use with care".

[MadHornet]

Wintersdark, on 24 July 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

Camp less?

I don't understand why people feel they should be perfectly safe when bottled up in a known position.

Have you stood in a general area for at least 10 seconds? Tada, you can be hit by a strike.

It doesn't take camping for this to happen. Don't argue against the extremes just because it's easier to refute.

[Mystere]

Simulacrum, on 24 July 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

Please PGI, stop that Strike spam tactics! Anyway on which side you are it is boring like hell to waste time with such a match. There is no Mechwarrior feeling left if one side does most of its damage with Air/Arty Strikes or if the battle is fought with 24 empowered Strikes.

And please dont tell me something like "adapt or perish" or similar. If I would like to play an Artillery game I would play WoT, but this is Mechwarrior not Strikewarriorwithsomekindofrobopewpew.

Adapt or perish!

Khobai, on 24 July 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

need 1 strike per mech limit

No!

[Wintersdark]

MadHornet, on 24 July 2017 - 06:06 PM, said:

Have you stood in a general area for at least 10 seconds? Tada, you can be hit by a strike.

It doesn't take camping for this to happen. Don't argue against the extremes just because it's easier to refute.

So? So what if I can be hit with a strike? Why is that a problem? I can get hit by a guy popping me with an ERPPC as well. OH NO! NERF ERPPCS!

[MadHornet]

Wintersdark, on 24 July 2017 - 06:16 PM, said:

So? So what if I can be hit with a strike? Why is that a problem? I can get hit by a guy popping me with an ERPPC as well. OH NO! NERF ERPPCS!

False equivalence. Arty and airstrike, especially the upgraded versions, deal a LOT of damage to lighter units and can be placed just by peeping out of cover for a second. An ERPPC takes some aim and more hits to do the same damage.

I've been crit rear and lost armor in some places while piloting lights when this happens. It utterly cripples you.

[ScoutMaster]

Stop playing hide and seek and playing pokey pokey every game and you won't get hit by them so much.

Strikes encourage games to be more dynamic.

[AncientRaig]

It'd be nice if there was more warning if a strike was called near you as well. The trouble with strikes isn't just that they're better (and lets be honest, they kinda needed to be improved), it's that the potatoes can't be relied on to call out that someone just dropped red smoke behind you. And since that's the only warning you get, it can be very annoying to suddenly have a bunch of bombs dropped on you or something. An audio warning to give you a few seconds to move before the strike hits to at least let you avoid some of the damage would be nice. Maybe have Betty warn you about incoming arty/air strike.

[Khobai]

the issue with strikes is more the fact they dont really cost anything and you can get 3 of them for free.

i mean even a rocket launcher costs tonnage/crits and a strike does similar damage to a rocket launcher

not really fair to rocket launchers. rocket launchers are sad

Edited by Khobai, 24 July 2017 - 07:02 PM.

[MadHornet]

Great, people reply, don't read the discussion, and then make the same arguments that I already tackled. Ugh.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

MadHornet, on 24 July 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

Great, people reply, don't read the discussion, and then make the same arguments that I already tackled. Ugh.

You didn't tackle any arguments.

If you don't want to get shot up by artillery:

Don't ball up
Don't camp
Brawl with the enemy

Huge strikes are always against people breaking those three rules. Against single targets, a strike is going to have less effect on the match than if a person had brought cool shot or UAV... if it even hits.

It's really that simple. Strikes are an effective tool for making matches more dynamic by suppressing groups of enemies. Deathballs can be broken up, and active players (pushers) are given a tool for rooting out passive players (campers).

[dezgra]

I like the arti/air strikes. Makes me pay attention. Perfect training to force this potato to move.

[TheArisen]

I feel like the people arguing against some kind of limit haven't been strike spammed by a coordinated team. 4 or 5 in a match isn't a problem, it's when there's 20 in a group que or 80+ in a FP. That's a lot of free firepower as it costs a fairly small amount of cbills when you win or if cbills aren't an issue.

No one is saying remove it but honestly it's being abused. Dodging several is fine, but when there's just a never ending stream of them it's not so easy. Especially if you're facing people who're good at placing them.

[MadHornet]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 24 July 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

You didn't tackle any arguments.

If you don't want to get shot up by artillery:

Don't ball up
Don't camp
Brawl with the enemy

Huge strikes are always against people breaking those three rules. Against single targets, a strike is going to have less effect on the match than if a person had brought cool shot or UAV... if it even hits.

It's really that simple. Strikes are an effective tool for making matches more dynamic by suppressing groups of enemies. Deathballs can be broken up, and active players (pushers) are given a tool for rooting out passive players (campers).

Oh I guess my replies just don't exist? Did you even read what you responded to? All you did was repeat what I had already addressed. Here, let me repost them:

"1. People can place it directly behind you
2. People can place it on objects or terrain directly above you
3. In the heat of focus you can easily lose reaction time "

"Have you stood in a general area for at least 10 seconds? Tada, you can be hit by a strike.

It doesn't take camping for this to happen. Don't argue against the extremes just because it's easier to refute. "

"
False equivalence. Arty and airstrike, especially the upgraded versions, deal a LOT of damage to lighter units and can be placed just by peeping out of cover for a second. An ERPPC takes some aim and more hits to do the same damage.

I've been crit rear and lost armor in some places while piloting lights when this happens. It utterly cripples you. "

[Wintersdark]

MadHornet, on 24 July 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

Oh I guess my replies just don't exist? Did you even read what you responded to? All you did was repeat what I had already addressed. Here, let me repost them:

"1. People can place it directly behind you
2. People can place it on objects or terrain directly above you
3. In the heat of focus you can easily lose reaction time "

"Have you stood in a general area for at least 10 seconds? Tada, you can be hit by a strike.

It doesn't take camping for this to happen. Don't argue against the extremes just because it's easier to refute. "

"
False equivalence. Arty and airstrike, especially the upgraded versions, deal a LOT of damage to lighter units and can be placed just by peeping out of cover for a second. An ERPPC takes some aim and more hits to do the same damage.

I've been crit rear and lost armor in some places while piloting lights when this happens. It utterly cripples you. "

None of these are good arguments. "I got hit by a strike that had been carefully positioned" = not a problem.

There is a good argument in this thread, though:

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

MadHornet, on 24 July 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

Oh I guess my replies just don't exist? Did you even read what you responded to? All you did was repeat what I had already addressed. Here, let me repost them:

"1. People can place it directly behind you
2. People can place it on objects or terrain directly above you
3. In the heat of focus you can easily lose reaction time "

"Have you stood in a general area for at least 10 seconds? Tada, you can be hit by a strike.

It doesn't take camping for this to happen. Don't argue against the extremes just because it's easier to refute. "

"
False equivalence. Arty and airstrike, especially the upgraded versions, deal a LOT of damage to lighter units and can be placed just by peeping out of cover for a second. An ERPPC takes some aim and more hits to do the same damage.

I've been crit rear and lost armor in some places while piloting lights when this happens. It utterly cripples you. "

Your replies don't suggest you know what you're talking about.

If you're one guy sitting still for 10 seconds and you get a strike dropped on you, then you should understand it ultimately doesn't have a huge impact on the outcome of the game- it usually ends up being equivalent to what.. 1 alpha strike worth of damage spread across your entire mech? Even if it sucks for you personally, it's still essentially a failed strike that would have been better spent before a push against a cluster of enemies- which can dramatically effect the outcome and is what they are for.

If you're with a group holding in a fixed position, you should simply accept that you might get hit by a strike. That's what they're for, and the risk you take by trying to deathball.

If you're hit by a strike while piloting a light I have absolutely zero sympathy for you, considering lights are the most effective mechs at dropping strikes behind people to begin with, and the most able to avoid them. Congrats, you got hit by the 1 strike out of the 100 that you've probably dodged.

[Wintersdark]

TheArisen, on 24 July 2017 - 07:43 PM, said:

I feel like the people arguing against some kind of limit haven't been strike spammed by a coordinated team. 4 or 5 in a match isn't a problem, it's when there's 20 in a group que or 80+ in a FP. That's a lot of free firepower as it costs a fairly small amount of cbills when you win or if cbills aren't an issue.

No one is saying remove it but honestly it's being abused. Dodging several is fine, but when there's just a never ending stream of them it's not so easy. Especially if you're facing people who're good at placing them.

Honestly, I think they're fine in even the group queue, but I'd be totally on board with a longer time in Faction Play.

If you've got a 1 per 30 second timer, that's a Max of 60 per match. But it's way less in practice, as it takes time to engage, and enemy strikes can prevent your own team from using theirs immediately off cool down simply by removing opportunity.

A 30 second timer, then, limits a match at way less that 1 per mech on the field.

[Wintersdark]

What is the current arty timer? 20 seconds? That's 3 per minute. A 30 minute faction play match is there for capped at 90, but even then 45 is probably a realistic maximum used, and even that is fairly extreme. A 10 second increase in cool down drops that more.

[Khobai]

Quote

What is the current arty timer? 20 seconds? That's 3 per minute. A 30 minute faction play match is there for capped at 90, but even then 45 is probably a realistic maximum used, and even that is fairly extreme. A 10 second increase in cool down drops that more.

even 45 strikes per match is too many

weve been through this before. when both an artillery and airstrike were allowed on a mech. and the number of strikes had to be limited to one per mech because people abused it.

in consumable form, it needs to be one strike per mech limit.

or strikes need to start taking up tonnage/crits like rockets do.

Edited by Khobai, 24 July 2017 - 08:38 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Reaver2145, on 24 July 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

Instead of limiting the bloody things I think the indicator should be done better.

A small plume of red smoke is easy to miss, there should be a mini map indicator instead. And as hardly any one seems to look at their mini map either it should only punish the stupid people.

Yay, someone else who noticed the importance of this.

You get an easily hideable red smoke canister (and the planes, I guess if you want to be Tattoo the whole match), as the visual indicator of something that has like a 100m radius at least.

It's pretty ridiculous really, they are used to deal mass damage or bonus damage, if people see the warning and move, which is actual successful area control, they are considered a miss and/or a wasted shot.

Which is understandable when they cost 40k per shot, and you can hide the smoke... But for the 15th time it leaves me asking, well do you want an AOE gun that cost 80k to reload and takes no tonnage/crit space? Or do you want area control consumables? We could have both, but currently we just have 2x the former.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 24 July 2017 - 08:55 PM.