122 replies to this topic

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

The warning really should be just like "incoming missiles".

[Khobai]

I personally think we should get weapons like ARROWIV and thunder LRMS for area control and area denial

those actually cost tonnage so you dont have to worry about everyone on your team spamming them

and limit strikes to one per mech.

[Xmith]

Simulacrum, on 24 July 2017 - 12:34 PM, said:

Please PGI, stop that Strike spam tactics! Anyway on which side you are it is boring like hell to waste time with such a match. There is no Mechwarrior feeling left if one side does most of its damage with Air/Arty Strikes or if the battle is fought with 24 empowered Strikes.

And please dont tell me something like "adapt or perish" or similar. If I would like to play an Artillery game I would play WoT, but this is Mechwarrior not Strikewarriorwithsomekindofrobopewpew.

How about, play to win period

[Mystere]

MadHornet, on 24 July 2017 - 06:33 PM, said:

False equivalence. Arty and airstrike, especially the upgraded versions, deal a LOT of damage to lighter units and can be placed just by peeping out of cover for a second. An ERPPC takes some aim and more hits to do the same damage.

I've been crit rear and lost armor in some places while piloting lights when this happens. It utterly cripples you.

Yes, because it's too hard to anticipate the enemy from peeking and poking from well known hiding positions.

Sidefire, on 24 July 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

It'd be nice if there was more warning if a strike was called near you as well. The trouble with strikes isn't just that they're better (and lets be honest, they kinda needed to be improved), it's that the potatoes can't be relied on to call out that someone just dropped red smoke behind you. And since that's the only warning you get, it can be very annoying to suddenly have a bunch of bombs dropped on you or something. An audio warning to give you a few seconds to move before the strike hits to at least let you avoid some of the damage would be nice. Maybe have Betty warn you about incoming arty/air strike.

If your teammates refuse to warn you about impending doom, that's a teamwork problem more than anything else. Nerfing something -- hell anything -- because teamwork is OP (or in this case -- woefully lacking) is not the correct way to do things, especially in a team-oriented game.

This is not supposed to be a game for a bunch of Mr. Solo Glory Hounds.

Khobai, on 24 July 2017 - 06:59 PM, said:

the issue with strikes is more the fact they dont really cost anything and you can get 3 of them for free.

i mean even a rocket launcher costs tonnage/crits and a strike does similar damage to a rocket launcher

not really fair to rocket launchers. rocket launchers are sad

Well, you don't exactly need to bring artillery batteries or aircraft carriers to call in strikes. You just need the communications and positioning equipment already built into your Mech.

Edited by Mystere, 25 July 2017 - 12:12 AM.

[Mystere]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 24 July 2017 - 07:19 PM, said:

If you don't want to get shot up by artillery:
Don't ball up
Don't camp
Brawl with the enemy

Didn't people watch The Battle of the Bast@rds^(*)? Only crazy commanders order their archers (or in MWO's case, artillery and air strikes) to fire right into their own soldiers.

<What can I say? Word filters are just plain stupid!>

Khobai, on 24 July 2017 - 08:36 PM, said:

even 45 strikes per match is too many

weve been through this before. when both an artillery and airstrike were allowed on a mech. and the number of strikes had to be limited to one per mech because people abused it.

in consumable form, it needs to be one strike per mech limit.

or strikes need to start taking up tonnage/crits like rockets do.

Was it really because people "abused" it? Or was it because people incessantly and loudly cried about it? I'm going to call the latter given my 5 years both playing this game and being on the forums.

Edited by Mystere, 25 July 2017 - 12:08 AM.

[Jingseng]

cbills2win spam was already a thing right out the gate with skill tree... it's nothing new =p

Agree that it's silly and unenjoyable though. Consumables were always a bit silly, and take away from options to improve gameplay/mech roles/map features, etc.

Doubt anything will be done though.

[Shifty McSwift]

Jingseng, on 25 July 2017 - 12:52 AM, said:

cbills2win spam was already a thing right out the gate with skill tree... it's nothing new =p

Agree that it's silly and unenjoyable though. Consumables were always a bit silly, and take away from options to improve gameplay/mech roles/map features, etc.

Doubt anything will be done though.

Um, well I mean I know it's "not cool" to be the guy who doesn't dump on PGI at every opportunity, but that recent (hot?)patch either changed or discussed the change of coolshot skill tree buffs getting a reduction, so that is action taken in response to player feedback. I would and do argue that it is not enough, but it is something.

[Lily from animove]

opr way better, make ams shoot down the strike shells, that way AMS gets a proper reason toexist than T5 lrms and co.
We ave been there and it was removed fr a reason, now you brought it back (because someone thought skilling it sacrifes on another aspect) but with the low amount of nodes needed to get it, it's not a real sacrifice.

So the circle is closed again.

or change how the arty works?

remember the MWO3 TAG? you had to actually palce laserpointer for some time to mark the spot before shells striked. That could be a better way as it will force time of exposure for the using mech. instead of just poke, click, hide, kaboomboom and giggling when the crosshair turns red..

Edited by Lily from animove, 25 July 2017 - 01:19 AM.

[DGTLDaemon]

Shifty McSwift, on 25 July 2017 - 01:11 AM, said:

Um, well I mean I know it's "not cool" to be the guy who doesn't dump on PGI at every opportunity, but that recent (hot?)patch either changed or discussed the change of coolshot skill tree buffs getting a reduction, so that is action taken in response to player feedback. I would and do argue that it is not enough, but it is something.

Coolshots aren't the primary offender, air/arty strikes are. And PGI did nothing about them in the latest patch, so apparently they're happy with the current "indirect P2W" model.

[Lily from animove]

Mystere, on 25 July 2017 - 12:01 AM, said:

Didn't people watch The Battle of the Bast@rds^(*)? Only crazy commanders order their archers (or in MWO's case, artillery and air strikes) to fire right into their own soldiers.

<What can I say? Word filters are just plain stupid!>




Was it really because people "abused" it? Or was it because people incessantly and loudly cried about it? I'm going to call the latter given my 5 years both playing this game and being on the forums.

what if it was because people wanted to play mechwarrior and not strike warrior? remember the final or was it the semi finals of that first tournament where arties basically decided the game (the one where one tema was hiding in the tunnels and then went for the cap), wow such fun much joy -.-
At least I thought we play MWO and not a fancy remake of artillery duel.

Edited by Lily from animove, 25 July 2017 - 01:23 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

DGTLDaemon, on 25 July 2017 - 01:17 AM, said:

Coolshots aren't the primary offender, air/arty strikes are. And PGI did nothing about them in the latest patch, so apparently they're happy with the current "indirect P2W" model.

The whole pay to win thing I don't agree with at all, even if people are buying them with MC, the c-bill equivalents still exist, and are entirely affordable if not "wasted" or misfired repeatedly, and also don't really make for a win button item, you can play and win without them quite easily.

If anything, coolshots are the worst offender for a pay to win button, as they allow you to press a button that gives you more capacity to deal immediate damage, moreso than someone without IF you are in a situation where you have more guns to fire immediately that would put your heat gauge over max.

Overall though I agree, my first feedback post for the skill tree (I think during the PTS), was concerning the extreme nature of consumables an their relative low skill tree cost to access, vs their high c-bill per use cost. And I dislike the position strikes are in and the tasks they are being used for.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 25 July 2017 - 01:32 AM.

[Templar Dane]

Wintersdark, on 24 July 2017 - 08:20 PM, said:

None of these are good arguments. "I got hit by a strike that had been carefully positioned" = not a problem.

There is a good argument in this thread, though:

How about "I got hit by 96 air strikes"?

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

DGTLDaemon, on 25 July 2017 - 01:17 AM, said:

Coolshots aren't the primary offender, air/arty strikes are. And PGI did nothing about them in the latest patch, so apparently they're happy with the current "indirect P2W" model.

I believe Russ said during the last town hall that strikes were already borderline in terms of their effectiveness. They didn't go into detail, but it's clear they want consumables to be good.

As far as "P2W", consumables in MWO are orders of magnitude lower impact than Hero mechs or the gated release of new chassis, nevermind premium content in similar games. Consumables do encourage use of heroes/premium (that's the business model), but it's a far softer expense for players than gold ammo in WoT, where even good players will run a deficit playing T10 tanks- and shooting excessive gold ammo, which is in some cases a straight upgrade over regular ammo hemorrhages money- with or without premium- in a way MWO players wouldn't even recognize.

In any case, it's not about P2W. If it was, we'd have threads whining about UAV spam or cool shots which can be equally powerful. Strike whining in specific comes up repeatedly because people just want to smash robots together without dealing with any kind of complication of subterfuge whatsoever.

Edited by Aggravated Assault Mech, 25 July 2017 - 02:18 AM.

[DGTLDaemon]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 25 July 2017 - 02:13 AM, said:

As far as "P2W", consumables in MWO are orders of magnitude lower impact than Hero mechs or the gated release of new chassis, nevermind premium content in similar games.

To be honest, I'd much rather deal with "OP" hero mechs on the other side than lose up to 30% of my health per match because I can't dodge the goddam strikes in my slow assault. Based on my experience, right now strikes have way more impact on the game than any perceived imbalance between chassis, weapons or loadouts.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

DGTLDaemon, on 25 July 2017 - 02:20 AM, said:

To be honest, I'd much rather deal with "OP" hero mechs on the other side than lose up to 30% of my health per match because I can't dodge the goddam strikes in my slow assault.

In comp play?

[DGTLDaemon]

Aggravated Assault Mech, on 25 July 2017 - 02:23 AM, said:

In comp play?

No, I'm referring to regular QP matches. I don't play comp, that's above my skill level

[Jingseng]

well, there's a reason i chose to say cbill2win rather than pay2win. There are plenty of players who either need a sink or at the least could funnel down a sink for a long time without having to resort to cash purchases.

That said, it's still fundamentally different from having cbills to outfit and customize, and still fundamentally disruptive and moderately detestable as a gameplay mechanic. In the same sense that it does not link to skill or time (except perhaps to extreme amounts of time with subsequent fat bankroll built up).

It's a weird thing to have individual 'soldiers' be able to call in air strikes, repeatedly. Without reference to any kind of command structure, role, or minimal coordination with other players.

I mean, it'd be different if you could only use the consumable when a target is TAG'd or the drop leader issues a request. But as is, it's a Tonnage free, Slot free, Heat Free c-bill based powerful AoE weapon. WTF.

[DGTLDaemon]

Jingseng, on 25 July 2017 - 02:29 AM, said:

well, there's a reason i chose to say cbill2win rather than pay2win.

Yup, that's why I used the term "indirect P2W". Technically, strikes are accessible to everyone, but the ability to use them liberally depends on one's C-Bill pool, and the latter largely depends on premium time, availability of C-Bill boosted mechs, and willingness to pay for mechpacks rather than save C-Bills to purchase mechs. So it still gives wealthy players an advantage.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

DGTLDaemon, on 25 July 2017 - 02:24 AM, said:

No, I'm referring to regular QP matches. I don't play comp, that's above my skill level

Might as well admit you're exaggerating then.

[Wintersdark]

Templar Dane, on 25 July 2017 - 01:39 AM, said:

How about &quot;I got hit by 96 air strikes&quot;?

You didn't. Even in faction play, there's pretty much an upper cap of 60 used per whole match. The likely hood of eating more than a couple is very small unless you're doing dumb things.

In QP, you've got average 8 minute battles, and of that 3 or so is spent getting into position. That leaves, assuming the CD is 20 seconds, 3 per minute = 15 strikes against your team over the whole battle. And that's against your whole team.

If you're not camping or bottled up somewhere, it's really a non issue. Again: just getting hit by an Arty strike at some random.moment in a match is no different than someone just alphaing you at some random point in the match.