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Racs Are Overpowered Garbage.


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#1 Doomerang

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 06:29 PM

Fix the RAC. Nobody has fun when one player can hold down a button and ******* blind you for 10 seconds by hitting you anywhere on the front of your mech. The amazing damage and ammo efficiency is already enough of a benefit to make it an OP weapon without adding perma-blind to the target.

Edit: But I strongly encourage the devs to play 10 1v1 duels and be on the receiving end of blinding RAC spam just to see how much fun it adds to the game and how competitive they feel they are when a super high DPS weapon is being used against them and there is no way for them to see what the **** is actually happening.

Edited by Doomerang, 24 July 2017 - 06:31 PM.


#2 BigScwerl

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Posted 24 July 2017 - 09:45 PM

So its kinda like how it feels with Clan UAC 2 Spam, or Stupid LRMs. Sorry Bruh. You're gonna have to learn to deal with that one by using cover and speed to your advantage. Full Disclosure: I havent even played with them on a mech yet, but I've dropped against them a lot in the last few days. Hit your R Key, Fire Back in the Red Square and Run Away. Learn to focus components and learn where the Ballistic Hardpoints are on builds.

#3 Doomerang

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 04:16 AM

Exactly the kind of nothing response I'd expect from a non-tier 1 noob.

#4 DakoneAzura

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 05:11 AM

honestly they suck unless its on a mech designed with auto cannons in mind that can hold more than 2 and even then they still suck... The only thing they are good for is blinding like you have stated. < i am an IS player and have tired them and instantly gotten rid of them as they are just piss poor dmg compared to the UAC..

Also before you bash people that are under Teir 1 why don't you show your teir for everyone else to see to me it kinda seems like you want to hide it for a reason.

Edited by DakoneAzura, 25 July 2017 - 05:15 AM.


#5 dabeda

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 05:48 AM

I couldn't agree less, they suffer the same problem as the ac2s, ridiculous facetime, if you cant handle the blinding effect switch over to heat vision or sorry to say this but learn to play

#6 PyckenZot

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 06:12 AM

RACs are nothing special. (If anything they are too hot and jam way too long)

They can suppress less experienced players and core out someone not paying attention. But really usefull? nah.

View Postdabeda, on 25 July 2017 - 05:48 AM, said:

I couldn't agree less, they suffer the same problem as the ac2s, ridiculous facetime, if you cant handle the blinding effect switch over to heat vision or sorry to say this but learn to play

And that too! :)

#7 Bonzai VI

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 06:26 AM

@Doomerang

View PostBigScwerl, on 24 July 2017 - 09:45 PM, said:

So its kinda like how it feels with Clan UAC 2 Spam, or Stupid LRMs. Sorry Bruh. You're gonna have to learn to deal with that one by using cover and speed to your advantage. Full Disclosure: I havent even played with them on a mech yet, but I've dropped against them a lot in the last few days. Hit your R Key, Fire Back in the Red Square and Run Away. Learn to focus components and learn where the Ballistic Hardpoints are on builds.


He's right you know...

Edit: BTW, often Tier 2 players are people that just don't play much quickplay. Was also a long time tier 2 since i was investing my time in CW or other stuff. Are you even tier 1 or just mindlessly bashing people?

It's really pathetic of you to bash Big. Especially since what he said is 100% right.

Edited by Bonzai VI, 25 July 2017 - 06:48 AM.


#8 Doomerang

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:07 AM

Typical. I post about a real issue and instead of minding their own business people drop in to troll it down. Thats the main reason why balance in this game has always been ****, too. The devs listen to yall when you say that the highest DPS weapon (which happens to be an IS weapon) which also has great ammo efficiency, heat efficiency, range and tonnage/crit space on top of blinding people, isn't really all that great. Good job contributing to the death of the game by fighting for a terribly unbalanced state of play.

#9 Bonzai VI

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 08:22 AM

I'm not trolling...

The RACs are garbage if you're looking at heat efficiency. That Ammo efficiency you see? You need it cuz that dmg isn't to the point but spread. If you look at the overall dps instead of its firing duration (5-10 seconds) the dps drops severely.
The RAC5 is 10 tons and 6 slots. You need 2 of them to deal meaningful dmg. You will NEVER fit two into one arm and you can't use a light/XL engine if you're packing it into a torso.
And really? 450 meters is much for you? It's a weapon which has velocity. Means you have to aim in front of the enemy if he's moving. And he will be moving. So you won't hit your shots very much at max range.

The blinding is annoying and should be reduced, but everyone is saying that.

If you actually had knowledge instead of blind rage you wouldn't even need such a thread.

But it sounds like you're just a clan loyalist which has a stick up his bum.

Edited by Bonzai VI, 25 July 2017 - 10:47 AM.


#10 BigScwerl

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 10:41 AM

View PostDoomerang, on 25 July 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

Typical. I post about a real issue and instead of minding their own business people drop in to troll it down. Thats the main reason why balance in this game has always been ****, too. The devs listen to yall when you say that the highest DPS weapon (which happens to be an IS weapon) which also has great ammo efficiency, heat efficiency, range and tonnage/crit space on top of blinding people, isn't really all that great. Good job contributing to the death of the game by fighting for a terribly unbalanced state of play.


Apparently the only issue here is your inability to avoid them and use cover. In 46 FW Matches since the patch dropped, I have faced them regularly. They are just like Lurms. Sure they suck, but you can avoid them pretty easily.

So, Lets talk about why I am the Noob in this circumstance.

Discuss.

#11 PyckenZot

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 10:47 AM

View PostDoomerang, on 25 July 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

Typical. I post about a real issue and instead of minding their own business people drop in to troll it down. Thats the main reason why balance in this game has always been ****, too. The devs listen to yall when you say that the highest DPS weapon (which happens to be an IS weapon) which also has great ammo efficiency, heat efficiency, range and tonnage/crit space on top of blinding people, isn't really all that great. Good job contributing to the death of the game by fighting for a terribly unbalanced state of play.


I typically don't go into these kind of discussions but you have just been awarded the honour of catching me on a bad day. The main reason why balance in this game has always been **** is due to the constant overflow of the saltmines concerning this or that OP weapon. Most of the time those complaints are based on nothing else than the player posting the thread having had a bad run against said weapon.

If you truly find RACs OP, I cannot but assume you had such an encounter. RACs are a nice addition to the game but are severely hindered by their heat, weight, facetime,...

PPFLD: Now THAT hurts!

Edited by PyckenZot, 25 July 2017 - 10:48 AM.


#12 EasyPickings

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:28 AM

I had the opportunity to try out my dual AC5, 2x ML Uziel against a dual RAC5 Uziel in a Conquest on Caustic Valley.

My opponent and I were pretty fresh and as we faced off, he let go with his RAC5 deluge while I plunked away with my AC5s. He stopped firing at me pretty quickly, but was still facing me and circling me in that dance of death that we all do.

I couldn't tell if the cease fire was due to jamming or overheating, but every now and then he'd spin up his RACs and I'd get a bit of his spam, but it never lasted long.

I kept at it and took him down after an engaging fight and was able to go on and finish the match.

RACs overpowered? Not against determined players.

#13 Alilua

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 12:07 PM

Maybe they are slightly too accurate, but for the most part they give out high damage for sometime but also require high face time. Their ghost heat keeps them in check along with their naturally high heat values preventing many weapons from being used along with them.

#14 Moebius Pi

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 12:23 PM

If I've been killed by them, I haven't noticed. As Marquis stated, they're like LRMs; they punish folks out of position, but aren't so great in of themselves.

If you're doing more DPS than the RAC mech, you're likely to get them to back off, overheat, or jam anyhow for all their efforts anyhow (worth peaking at Smurphy's Weaponlab to run some comparisons). Decent trading and poke loadouts eat them alive due to lack of exposure, and you -can- out dps them (while still being able to twist between) with other loadouts of you hunt around. They hurt more when you're being focused fired upon, which I think is what tilts folks the most (more than one RAC mech that is)... as is being focused by a couple of traders or heavy hitting pokers or, well, anything worth a damn is just as annoying.

They are a bit more of a pain on uber tanky mechs that can spare a bit more face-time to vomit dakka at you, though even then my only real personal issue right now with them is the amount of blinding ballistic flashes they produce hitting you. That crap gets pretty damn excessive.

#15 DakoneAzura

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 03:59 PM

Game in my view is most balanced in comparison to the past.. The changes today are nearing the point of each side nearly being even.. Which I am thinking is not what you want and I highly doubt OP that you want these changes due to actual nostalgia of the actual game where Clanners where more stronger than the IS.. I feel you just want one side to be able to stomp one side every time... which makes me question who is the real troll on this thread.

#16 BTGbullseye

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 05:35 PM

View PostDakoneAzura, on 25 July 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

Game in my view is most balanced in comparison to the past.. The changes today are nearing the point of each side nearly being even.

Indeed it is. We want it to be even closer, which is why ATMs need a buff, and RAC5's need a nerf. (not RAC2's, they're fine as-is) Also, Clan and IS drop weights need to be even at 250t for proper balance.

Edited by BTGbullseye, 25 July 2017 - 05:38 PM.


#17 Dee Eight

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:11 PM

View PostDoomerang, on 25 July 2017 - 04:16 AM, said:

Exactly the kind of nothing response I'd expect from a non-tier 1 noob.


Exactly the kind of nothing response I'd expect from a hiding-his/her-tier forum warrior with only slightly above average performance results. Made all the more amusing because BigScwerl has better results.

Edited by Dee Eight, 25 July 2017 - 07:11 PM.


#18 Dee Eight

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:14 PM

View PostDoomerang, on 25 July 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

Typical. I post about a real issue and instead of minding their own business people drop in to troll it down. Thats the main reason why balance in this game has always been ****, too. The devs listen to yall when you say that the highest DPS weapon (which happens to be an IS weapon) which also has great ammo efficiency, heat efficiency, range and tonnage/crit space on top of blinding people, isn't really all that great. Good job contributing to the death of the game by fighting for a terribly unbalanced state of play.



LOL...thats rich...you posted a trolling rant...folks responded with logical arguments countering your claims...and you call them trolls who should mind their own business. If you don't want others opinions... that disagree with yours...post on your personal livejournal blog or something, where you can control the responses.

#19 Dee Eight

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 07:26 PM

View PostEasyPickings, on 25 July 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

I had the opportunity to try out my dual AC5, 2x ML Uziel against a dual RAC5 Uziel in a Conquest on Caustic Valley.

My opponent and I were pretty fresh and as we faced off, he let go with his RAC5 deluge while I plunked away with my AC5s. He stopped firing at me pretty quickly, but was still facing me and circling me in that dance of death that we all do.

I couldn't tell if the cease fire was due to jamming or overheating, but every now and then he'd spin up his RACs and I'd get a bit of his spam, but it never lasted long.

I kept at it and took him down after an engaging fight and was able to go on and finish the match.

RACs overpowered? Not against determined players.


I just did that dance on tournaline along the F7 ridge against a Cataphract 3D with a pair of RAC/5s and two MPL vs my Roughneck Reaver with a pair UAC/5s, quad MLs and an SRM4. Started out as a face off then went to the circle dance off. Oh sure he sprayed me with the RACs... but then they'd jam.... and it was just medium pulses... and my UAC's jammed less often (as the UAC jam chance quirk on the phract doesn't apply to RACs) and for a shorter period of time... plus as others pointed out... pin point hits are better than spraying fire across my whole mech trying to lead me with one side torso and one arm RAC while my UAC's are in both arms. The roughneck is slightly more agile, and overall quirked better for durability too.

The net result was he was still trying to hit my CT when I removed his RT (and all his weapons in the process) and then he turned to run and died as apparently I had crit his ammunition stored there...which then blew him up.

RACs are best used on mechs without UAC quirks, and also that lack the cooldown quirk (as that doesn't apply to the weapon either) or have a very minimal one to begin with. The Cataphract 0XP for example...useful....only has ballistic range and velocity quirks. And the ECM lets you sneak into a place to use a single RAC/5 effectively...like behind the enemy. Anything else and they're wasting good hardpoints that could be carrying something better.

Edited by Dee Eight, 25 July 2017 - 07:37 PM.


#20 BTGbullseye

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Posted 25 July 2017 - 11:49 PM

So, you came across someone who didn't do well with the RAC5 once, and it means that they are all always fine as-is in all situations ever?

How about them boring an undamaged CT on a MCII in under 3 seconds at 500m with barely any damage occurring to anything but the CT? (the spread is the opposite of harmful for the RAC5's DPS at any range right now, they do the same spread as an LBX10 at max range, and effectively no spread at all out to 400m)





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