70 replies to this topic

[Jun Watarase]

I just tried out the new heavy med lasers and my first opinion is that they run far too hot, even with plenty of skill points in heat related skills.

ATMs seem to have too little ammo...even with 4 tons of ammo + max ammo skills, 2 ATM-9s run out of ammo extremely quickly.

Whats the general opinion on the new weapons?

And why do small pulse lasers do less damage than small lasers now even though they weigh double the tons and have less range?

Edited by Jun Watarase, 24 July 2017 - 10:03 PM.

[RestosIII]

I highly enjoy ATMs and Heavy Lasers. I think ATMs need some HP buffs from AMS, but, that's about it.

RAC's need some work, but their core is fun.

IS ERMLas are incredible. I will gladly run hotter for the range boost.

Haven't really touched anything else. Been focused a bit on my MCII and Bushwacker.

[DonGardenio]

Heavy Lasers are a good way to get much better alphas and damage potential when you are low tonnage and hardpoints, but have the slots to spare. I feel my Timbers are performing better with Heavy Mediums over regular mediums or SPLs. The burn time sucks and its pretty hot - but the damage is great.

Heavy PPCs are the bomb. 15 PPFLD. Fire two. That's twin gauss damage on the click of a button. Fun, hilarious and honestly a bit disgusting.

Snubs are kinda meh. I think I rather stick to MLas batteries. I suppose an alright way to use energy slots in a brawling setup if slot starved?

With both snubs and heavy ppcs had different particle effects or something. Snubs could fire a more crackly unstable looking burst maybe. Make the heavy ppcs shoot purple. SOMETHING.

I haven't tried the others but ATMs don't seem to know what they are. They might be good as a more flexible SRM alternative if they didn't have a minimum range. But they do so they will be awkward at ranges where you want the most damage per missile. LRMs beat them at long range.

MRMs and RACs look fun but they stream everything out and require a lot of facetime. Great if you manage to catch the odd guy out in the open, but chances are people will just burst damage your *** and pop back into cover while your theoretically high DPS never reaches its full potential.

[El Bandito]

Some new techs are very helpful and overall the game became more fun. Thats the short version of it.

[Jun Watarase]

I thought the entire point of not giving clan ER PPCs 15 PPFLD was because it would be OP? They actually gave heavy PPCs 15 PPFLD?

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

I can't find a config to get heavy lasers to work. It made clan pulses seem far more attractive. I've tried heavy lasers on small mechs which seem to be nice. Micro lasers etc are fantastic but the range

[Jun Watarase]

Looking at med pulse vs heavy med lasers, i cant see any reason to take the med laser either. Sure, its 1 ton less, but since you generate WAY more heat anyway, you will need to use more heatsinks. Unless you have VERY limited energy hardpoints (like the summoner) and need the largest alpha you can get.

Also 4 med pulse vs 6 small pulse is pretty much a no brainer. 2 tons for 4 more damage and double the range is totally worth it.

[Shifty McSwift]

Heavy small lasers are fitting the category of lowest range for highest damage to heat trade-off at a rate which is reasonable (for clans obv), to the point where IMO they outweigh micro lasers, I had figured micros would take that meta cqc role for energy, but they have to be weighed against the heavy small, because the damage disparity is not a negligible difference, and because the relative ranges end up so close.

Everything else was really a coin flip, and based on whether they wanted the new tech to actually be better than old tech, or if they wanted it to just add to the options, it looks like they have (thankfully) taken the latter path, none of the new tech is "so OP I quit" inducing, and no pay to win or powercreep complaints have come of it, which is good.

[The6thMessenger]

MRM needs spread reduction.

RAC needs work. More here: https://mwomercs.com...-time-with-rac/

ATMs need damage rework, to 2.4/2.0/1.6, remove minimum range, and increase missile health.

ERML is the most useful tech addition.

Never touched the heavy lasers.

Heavy Gauss Rifle need to lose reticle shake, and increase optimum range.

Light Gauss Rifle needs to have 25 ammo/ton.

Light Fusion Engine really works well with IS mech you usually take Standard Engine on.

Stealth Armor is meh.

[Jun Watarase]

RAC5s do seem quite ridiculous...they seem to jam a lot less often compared to UACs and outdamage UACs by quite a bit. UAC20 vs 2x RAC5s loses quite badly. Facetime isnt a big issue when your opponent has to face you for lasers/burst fire ACs anyway.

Edit : LBXs still seem like garbage....

Edited by Jun Watarase, 25 July 2017 - 03:29 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Meh.

Nice to finally have more IS UACs. The heavy PPC is also kinda fun. MRMs are a nice change of pace.
Nice to have the ERML that matches LPL range (close enough) The rest...well, like I said: Meh.

LBX20 and Heavy gauss are niche that just don't impact much if anything. Can't see using any of the smaller lbx weapons. Light PPC give a few builds a lower weight option to a regular PPC. Snub noses are just too range limited. ATMs are great if you can stay at mid range, but I so often find myself too close, so yeah...meh. I kinda like heavy lasers, but honestly GH is making most of them and a lot of the new weapons in general not particularly relevant or useful to me, except in a few select niche builds.

[Jun Watarase]

I cant see a use for snub nosed PPCs either i mean, look at the large pulse. It does the same damage at a longer range and you can fire 3 without ghost heat, while snub nosed PPCs are limited to 2. It's more heat efficient as well IIRC, and 0.6 duration not counting bonuses is short enough that you can easily get most of it on one location. The large pulse is still way too good currently, if you have the tonnage for 3, there is pretty much no reason to take 3 of it.

[Hit the Deck]

You can build this on the YLW with Snub nose PPC: YEN-LO-WANG

Swapping the SPPC with LPL doesn't create the same effect.

[Yellonet]

Clans got even more powerful weapons. IS got different weapons.

[Zergling]

Jun Watarase, on 24 July 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

I just tried out the new heavy med lasers and my first opinion is that they run far too hot, even with plenty of skill points in heat related skills.

Heavy Medium Laser: 8 heat, 6.45 second cycle time = 1.24 heat per second
ER Medium Laser = 6.3 heat, 5.00 second cycle time = 1.26 heat per second

Heavy Medium Lasers are actually cooler over time than Clan ER Medium Lasers.

Jun Watarase, on 24 July 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

ATMs seem to have too little ammo...even with 4 tons of ammo + max ammo skills, 2 ATM-9s run out of ammo extremely quickly.

Stop shooting at long range, they aren't LRMs.

I'm averaging 2.4 damage per ATM hit, which means 90 missiles per tons equates to 216 damage per ton.
LRMs are only 180 damage per ton.

Jun Watarase, on 24 July 2017 - 10:03 PM, said:

And why do small pulse lasers do less damage than small lasers now even though they weigh double the tons and have less range?

Because they shoot considerably faster, and do more damage per heat.

Small Pulse Laser: 4 damage, 2.4 heat, 2.5 second cycle time = 1.60 DPS, 1.67 damage/heat
ER Small Laser: 5 damage, 3.5 heat, 4.3 second cylce time = 1.16 DPS, 1.43 damage/heat

[Krellshand]

Heavy Lasers - not really worth the hassel. Too hot, too shot range, and, most problematic, the burn duration is too long. So, getting in close, having to expose longer and getting hotter is, combined, not good. You have to be on a pretty quick mech to make it out again alive.

Even 8 hlmed nova does not really make the cut. Its just too hot and the burn duration is too long to make the damage really count, even bad players spread the damage if the beam is so long.

Did okay on 4 hmed ACH, but otherwise... maybe on a viper? Iceferret? not sure, have to test. But they are not grade A weapons.

ATM -All purpose, okay. ish wepaons. They can do great, but like LRM your confined in your role as supporter. No brawling, and no indirect fire. This, combined with the weight, makes them a thing for heavys and assaults. And we all sure love those LURMAssaults, so we surely need more of those. Does fine on a MDD

HEavy PPC - Great poptart weapon

Snubnose - Dont understand the hype. Hot, so not really a brawl weapon, and not really a ppc because of the range. Mabye if you want an energy brawler, but its heavy for that. I can see the use, but its not the new uber brawl ewapon some make it out to be.

Light Gauss - too heavy, too small damage to be valid

Heavy Gauss - fun weapon, very situational. If you can boat it and come into range, you can instagib ST and arms, but the screenshake makes it not combinable with and other weapon, so no big alpha 4 u. Troll weapon, normal Gauss is way better

Light PPC - Okay on sniper lights, I cant see the use on heavys or assaults.

MRM - Top of the crop of the new weapons. Works as poptart and as brawl weapon, but you should ot boat it. 2max, better if you just have space for a 30 or 40 and backup wepaons, because it sprays like crazy. Have I mentioned that its a great potard weapon?

Light Mashine Gun - long range crit seeker? Give me more!

Heavy Mashine Gun - strips mechs fast if boated, so an Arrow or Nova becomes very dangerous close up

[Wildstreak]

Both sides
Machine Guns - LMGs good due to range, small spread and largest ammo per ton. Rarely if ever expect to see MGs or HMGs.

Laser AMS - some have fun with LAMS, others laugh at seeing 2 + LAMS users overheat.

Inner Sphere
Gauss - hardly used it myself before since I do not like explosions in STs. Seen complaints about LGauss damage for weight and size, HGauss Optimal Range is very low less than a ML. Neither will really be fielded a lot IMO.

LBX - some still avoid because of spread. Funky how IS LBX got heat advantages and I still do not understand projectile speeds chosen for any of them on both sides.

Ultras - UAC10 replaces AC20, maybe dual UAC5 depending on Mech. Rare to see UAC20. IS needs to learn to use UAC quirked Mechs and play them as IS quirked and built Mechs, not copy Clan builds.

RACs - expected to work differently. Needs lot of stare time, might work on select Lights and Mediums in singles but not really Heavies and Assaults unless they have slow mobility.

ER Lasers - might see some use, IS ERML does range sync with IS LPL and ERSL comes close to MPL.

PPCs - LPPC will see use, HPPC not so much. Snubs debatable.

Streaks - Unknown, they have their fans but waiting for lock on makes some avoid.

MRMs - Allow some builds to actually do damage and feel like they have value. Debate on possible tweaking, some do not like streaming since it is anti-IS FLD flavor but tube limit of 20 prevents FLD for 30 and 40 launchers.. MAGA.

RLs - rarely for an extra omph.

Stealth armor - ECM builds allowing sneaky sniping or ambushes, second will have more bogus hiding complaints.

LFF - depends on if build needs a small tonnage boost for more armor or combine with shaving off a bit of armor to get 1 more ton of equipment like another DHS.

LFE - replaces engine on a number of builds.

TCs - depends on build.

Clans
Micro Lasers - see no use now personally though 12 laser Nova has been pointed out.

Heavy Lasers considered too hot and there is duration, HSL burn similar to ERML, HML similar to ERLL. Some claim to like 2HLL Shadow Cats but to me they run quite hot and have the most laser facetime.

Light TAG - Solo Quickplay only.

ATM - debatable, I keep finding myself passing on for other missiles. Low missile numbers combined with AMS June buff makes it easy to neuter at range.

Light Active Probes - Clans use Active Probes? I was under the impression C AP was inferior to IS BAP anyway.

Summary
Overall, IS got more stuff to play with that has use.

[C4NC3R]

The6thMessenger, on 25 July 2017 - 01:08 AM, said:

MRM needs spread reduction.

RAC needs work. More here: https://mwomercs.com...-time-with-rac/

ATMs need damage rework, to 2.4/2.0/1.6, remove minimum range, and increase missile health.

ERML is the most useful tech addition.

Never touched the heavy lasers.

Heavy Gauss Rifle need to lose reticle shake, and increase optimum range.

Light Gauss Rifle needs to have 25 ammo/ton.

Light Fusion Engine really works well with IS mech you usually take Standard Engine on.

Stealth Armor is meh.

Evryhing is fine except your RAC description. CAUSE... by the Lore current state of the RAC's are - NERFED.
Cause RAC's jam chance by the Lore actually rely on heat-trashold/dissipation rate. If that would by how RAC's work in MWO you freely can cry-on that - RAC's ARE OP. But it doesn't.

Edited by C4NC3R, 25 July 2017 - 07:19 AM.

[C4NC3R]

Krellshand, on 25 July 2017 - 06:40 AM, said:

Heavy Lasers - not really worth the hassel. Too hot, too shot range, and, most problematic, the burn duration is too long. So, getting in close, having to expose longer and getting hotter is, combined, not good. You have to be on a pretty quick mech to make it out again alive.

Even 8 hlmed nova does not really make the cut. Its just too hot and the burn duration is too long to make the damage really count, even bad players spread the damage if the beam is so long.

Did okay on 4 hmed ACH, but otherwise... maybe on a viper? Iceferret? not sure, have to test. But they are not grade A weapons.

ATM -All purpose, okay. ish wepaons. They can do great, but like LRM your confined in your role as supporter. No brawling, and no indirect fire. This, combined with the weight, makes them a thing for heavys and assaults. And we all sure love those LURMAssaults, so we surely need more of those. Does fine on a MDD

HEavy PPC - Great poptart weapon

Snubnose - Dont understand the hype. Hot, so not really a brawl weapon, and not really a ppc because of the range. Mabye if you want an energy brawler, but its heavy for that. I can see the use, but its not the new uber brawl ewapon some make it out to be.

Light Gauss - too heavy, too small damage to be valid

Heavy Gauss - fun weapon, very situational. If you can boat it and come into range, you can instagib ST and arms, but the screenshake makes it not combinable with and other weapon, so no big alpha 4 u. Troll weapon, normal Gauss is way better

Light PPC - Okay on sniper lights, I cant see the use on heavys or assaults.

MRM - Top of the crop of the new weapons. Works as poptart and as brawl weapon, but you should ot boat it. 2max, better if you just have space for a 30 or 40 and backup wepaons, because it sprays like crazy. Have I mentioned that its a great potard weapon?

Light Mashine Gun - long range crit seeker? Give me more!

Heavy Mashine Gun - strips mechs fast if boated, so an Arrow or Nova becomes very dangerous close up

HPPC - is brawling or assault primary weapon and only few mediums or lights can carry it as sniper weapon. So it in the edge of the balance.

[JediPanther]

All the weapons I had interest in ended up being very situational at best and their performance for me has been sub par. I spend around 30-40 million c-bills I had stockpiled then went back to my old builds with pre civil war weapons. My lights still run xls.

Hppc: too hot to fire both at same time even with most of in mech ops and a lot into fire power for cool down and heat gen nodes. Same for the rest of the ppcs in general. Has 90m min range; they reason why I hate (most) ppcs and rarely use them.

Light ppc: a fun toy. Makes a weird sound. same damage as a is med laser with 500-600m range. 90m min range means only one on a light for smls or mls for fighting other lights.

Is er/ppc: Too hot and 90m range for one. Ghost heat etc.

Sub nose ppc: Best ppc just by the fact that 90m range minimal is gone. Still run laser and bal combos on my K2. Only one panther light has sub ppcs. Unsure if its quirk for 40% velocity works on subs along with firepower's velocity and cd skills.

Mrm40: Extremely fun when you use it on heavily quirk plus fire power tree mechs dedicated to missiles. A must try on the Huggin Raven.Missile machine gun? Ooh yeah! I had an enemy narc-er in dom mosde narc only me in a dual mrm 40 C4 Cat. They are that much of a threat they can one-two shot assaults. Funny part is the damage is only slightly higher than the old meta srm 6 A1 cat.

xle engine: I bought only one then forgot to use it as I was trying the other weapons which ment back to normal xls. their inbetween weight of xl and std means a lot of my builds still require xls. Especially on my lights or bfg heavy mech builds.

Heavy Guass: I shoved one in a shadow hawk. Out dueled a linebacker with three hits and some laser fire. very situational as you have to face hug the enemy. All the problems as guass with charge up time, release, bad aim, etc. I need a new video card then I'd use it a lot more. No dual hguass kgcs.

Rac 2: Poor damage as your only weapon. Troll weapon mostly when used on a light or urbie due to high rof and not enough ammo to last at all in a match. Might be fun with three or more on a mech but I ran out of funds.