28 replies to this topic

[Spam Lanwalker]

ok so i just returned form mmo land , decided to try mwo again as i'm a huge BT fan.

a few questions

what is this PoE like skilltree ? is it as ****** as it looks ?.

new mechs look nice (as always)

what is the new tech like ? and what should i be looking to try first ?

any "must get" mechs atm ?

[ScrapIron Prime]

Instead of buying modules, you buy skills. 91 tiny modules. Just make a plan before you start spending, it's easy once you do it once or twice.

https://tarogato-mwo..._skill_planner/

[Anunknownlurker]

Hexclicker Online™ has pretty much divided the players into 5 groups I think:

• I fricking HATE IT and will NEVER play this game again
  
• I hate it but will still play
  
• Meh, it's in the game, I'll deal with it
  
• It's a good start
  
• I love the Skill Tree, it's made my mechs good

I put myself firmly in option one! For me it gives the illusion of choice, the improvements are minor and, once you get used to it, you pretty much build every mech in the same way (with some exceptions). Yep, it's an improvement on the old "rule of three" system and, in some ways, an improvement on the previous module system, but both these could have been fixed without this mess.


Still, some people like it, I'll leave it to them to explain why as, personally, I don't see it.

New tech is, with a few exceptions (IS ERMLs/ERSMLs, Heavy MGs, and Light Fusion Engines, maybe a couple more), a nice to have in the game and I don't think will totally replace the previous weapons so PGI did a decent job of introducing it I guess.

With the new mechs, new tech and recent nerfs to certain weapons I think it may be to early to call any mech "must get" but check out metamechs for the latest news.

My normal caveat applies, this is just my opinion and others may differ.

Edited by Jimmy DiGriz, 25 July 2017 - 11:47 AM.

[MechaBattler]

Warhammers are still good. I find my Banshees to still be the sexy beasts they've always been. If you have an Awesome 8Q, I'd recommend trying out the new selection of PPCs we have. Since the quirks effect all of them.

The Wolverine got a huge mobility boost. Definitely worth checking out if you didn't like them the first time.

Dragons are super tanky. Vindicators are also quite tanky, but not top tier. Still you can get away with a lot more than before. And the new tech opens up options. Orion's also got armor quirks, so they're real good in a slobber knocker brawl.

Edited by MechaBattler, 25 July 2017 - 11:48 AM.

[Athom83]

Spam Lanwalker, on 25 July 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

what is this PoE like skilltree ? is it as ****** as it looks ?.

Pretty simple when you sit and look at it for a bit.

Spam Lanwalker, on 25 July 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

what is the new tech like ? and what should i be looking to try first ?

IS Ultras are basically direct upgrades and should usually be the weapon of choice for balistics. New ER lasers are nice. ATMs are also pretty good when you get used to them.

Spam Lanwalker, on 25 July 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

any "must get" mechs atm ?

Bushwacker and Marauder IIC for C-Bills. All the new ones (Annihilator, MadCat MkII, etc) are also really good if you want to dish out cash.

[Mystere]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 25 July 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Hexclicker Online™ has pretty much divided the players into 5 groups I think:

• I fricking HATE IT and will NEVER play this game again
  
• I hate it but will still play
  
• Meh, it's in the game, I'll deal with it
  
• It's a good start
  
• I love the Skill Tree, it's made my mechs good

I put myself firmly in option one! For me it gives the illusion of choice, the improvements are minor and, once you get used to it, you pretty much build every mech in the same way (with some exceptions). Yep, it's an improvement on the old "rule of three" system and, in some ways, an improvement on the previous module system, but both these could have been fixed without this mess.




Still, some people like it, I'll leave it to them to explain why as, personally, I don't see it.

New tech is, with a few exceptions (IS ERMLs/ERSMLs, Heavy MGs, and Light Fusion Engines, maybe a couple more), a nice to have in the game and I don't think will totally replace the previous weapons so PGI did a decent job of introducing it I guess.

With the new mechs, new tech and recent nerfs to certain weapons I think it may be to early to call any mech "must get" but check out metamechs for the latest news.

My normal caveat applies, this is just my opinion and others may differ.

You forgot one:

• Meh, it's in the game, I'll just ignore it most of the time.

Edited by Mystere, 25 July 2017 - 12:33 PM.

[KodiakGW]

In before lock! Last one like this got locked pretty fast even though OP was getting suggestions.

Hint, try mechs that have high armor quirks with the Survival Skill Tree. Like the Commando. Will get crap for damage, but lag shield+poor hit reg+multiple of additional armor due to quirks = hard to kill little bugger that draws 1/4 of the team to chase it.

BTW - I'm #2 on that list..for now. Had many friends become #1 on the list.

Edited by KodiakGW, 25 July 2017 - 02:13 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 25 July 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Hexclicker Online™ has pretty much divided the players into 5 groups I think:

• I fricking HATE IT and will NEVER play this game again
  
• I hate it but will still play
  
• Meh, it's in the game, I'll deal with it
  
• It's a good start
  
• I love the Skill Tree, it's made my mechs good

This basically sounds like;

• Very Bad
  
• Bad
  
• Mediocre
  
• Okay
  
• Good

[Jay Leon Hart]

Spam Lanwalker, on 25 July 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

ok so i just returned form mmo land , decided to try mwo again as i'm a huge BT fan.

a few questions

what is this PoE like skilltree ? is it as ****** as it looks ?.

new mechs look nice (as always)

what is the new tech like ? and what should i be looking to try first ?

any "must get" mechs atm ?

Look here for some handy-dandy Skill Tree guides.

New tech Yes / No / Maybe

Yes;
Heavy PPCs
Snub Nose PPCs
IS UACs
IS ER lasers
IS Targeting Computers
Light Engines
Light FF

No;
Light Gauss
IS LBX ACs
Stealth Armour
Laser AMS
Light TAG


Maybe;
Rotary ACs
Heavy Gauss
Light PPCs
ATMs
MRMs
Rockets
Heavy lasers
Micro lasers
IS Streak SRMs
Light & Heavy MGs
Light Active Probe

Must get 'mechs?

Try here for recent top pick 'mechs, though note the survey was done (intentionally) before the new tech.

[Angel of Annihilation]

The skill tree is an overall improvement in some ways and not near as difficult as people make it out to be. Once you build out a few mechs and get a feel for what does what and how it improves this, that or the other thing, making decisions in the skill tree become easy. It is no more complex for example than customizing your first few mechs in the mech lab and experimenting until you find a good build. Once you do that a couple times, the next mechs become easier and easier.

I do have some issues with the skill tree.

1) It is nice that you don't have to own 3 mechs to skill up just one mech however the XP and C-bill costs were adjusted so to account for the fact you only have to get one mech to skill it up. That is good if you only want one variant but I am still finding myself getting 2-3-4-5 or even 6 variants which makes the grind and cost much, much higher that it used to be.

2) I don't like the XP cost to buy back skill nodes you already purchased and deactivated because you wanted to try out another build. I don't believe there should be a penalty for experimenting and currently there is.

Other than that, I find things just fine and despite what many people say, It isn't uncommon for me to have quite a few mechs that are running their own customize skill build specific only to that particular mech.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

As an old whale who has considered returning, this is a significant barrier to (re)entry. First I don't want to spend a ton of time picking 91 skills. Second I font want that effort and expense immediately invalidated as soon as I change my build. And finally what if I have multiple builds I enjoy on the same variant, do I have to change skills every time I change weapons.
Frankly, it all seems like more effort than its worth (especially for 100+ mechs).

[pyrocomp]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 25 July 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

As an old whale who has considered returning, this is a significant barrier to (re)entry. First I don't want to spend a ton of time picking 91 skills. Second I font want that effort and expense immediately invalidated as soon as I change my build. And finally what if I have multiple builds I enjoy on the same variant, do I have to change skills every time I change weapons.
Frankly, it all seems like more effort than its worth (especially for 100+ mechs).

You can safely ignore Skill Tree.
Aaaand... There are only about 5-7 build-specific nodes that you'll take above other 60+ usual and a handfull of mech-specific nodes. So do not exaggerate the problem, it's not here.
And yes, I change builds often.

[KodiakGW]

pyrocomp, on 25 July 2017 - 05:23 PM, said:

You can safely ignore Skill Tree.
Aaaand... There are only about 5-7 build-specific nodes that you'll take above other 60+ usual and a handfull of mech-specific nodes. So do not exaggerate the problem, it's not here.
And yes, I change builds often.

He still needs to spend the time clicking the "60+ usual and a handful of mech-specific nodes" on all the mechs he wants to play. So, I wouldn't say he is exaggerating the problem. Would be nice if before they implemented this they listened to some others, besides the Skill Tree White Knights, who said to have a standard template that you could have applied to save on clicking.

Besides, isn't your point contrary to one of the White Knight selling points on making each skill tree unique for every mech? If 2/3+ of the nodes are going to be the same on every mech, leaves little to make one mech vastly different from another with skills.

Edited by KodiakGW, 25 July 2017 - 05:38 PM.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

pyrocomp, on 25 July 2017 - 05:23 PM, said:

You can safely ignore Skill Tree.
Aaaand... There are only about 5-7 build-specific nodes that you'll take above other 60+ usual and a handfull of mech-specific nodes. So do not exaggerate the problem, it's not here.
And yes, I change builds often.

I am not exaggerating the problem, and I don't think you understand "the problem".
The Problem is people who once played the game are put off by amount of effort required to reengage, especially players like myself who have well over a hundred mech, and enjoy playing a wide variety of chassis and builds.

And if you can "safely ignore the skill tree" why bother having it? It is complexity for the sake of complexity, which creates a barrier to entry for new and returning players.

Obviously I am not going to spend a lot of time debating it, if I was that concerned I would re-download the game and learn how to play from scratch. I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the downside of implementing a complexity grind-wheel.

[evilauthor]

Viktor Drake, on 25 July 2017 - 04:04 PM, said:

2) I don't like the XP cost to buy back skill nodes you already purchased and deactivated because you wanted to try out another build. I don't believe there should be a penalty for experimenting and currently there is.

To be fair, the XP cost to buy back nodes is dirt cheap. If you don't have the XP to buy those nodes back, you don't really play that mech enough to make it worth reskilling. You can easily make the XP to buy back a node from playing one losing Quick Match. If you WIN a Quick Match, you could possibly make enough XP to buy back four (or just buy two SP straight up to unlock NEW nodes).

[ScrapIron Prime]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 25 July 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

I am not exaggerating the problem, and I don't think you understand "the problem".
The Problem is people who once played the game are put off by amount of effort required to reengage, especially players like myself who have well over a hundred mech, and enjoy playing a wide variety of chassis and builds.

And if you can "safely ignore the skill tree" why bother having it? It is complexity for the sake of complexity, which creates a barrier to entry for new and returning players.

Obviously I am not going to spend a lot of time debating it, if I was that concerned I would re-download the game and learn how to play from scratch. I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the downside of implementing a complexity grind-wheel.

the skill tree is large. the skill tree is not hard. Do not be scared away by large.

With it, you can customize each mech more than you ever could under the old "unlock and module" system.

It doesn't take long to learn it. I re-skilled 20 or so mechs in the first 2 days, redid a few with lessons learned, then skilled out all 117 mechs as I needed them. And I have so many Historic Skill Points, I have yet to spend a single cBill or point of XP in doing so.

If you don't want to come back to the game, that's perfectly fine. Tastes and interests change. But don't let a screen full of hexagons be the reason. It's not scary.

[El Bandito]

You will get used to the new skill tree fast. Just start with one or two mechs and the rest will be easy. Currently I skill up a mech in less than 5 minutes.

[Anunknownlurker]

@Spam Lanwalker
Like I said, skill tree has divided the community...skill tree? It's a fricking TECH TREE, they couldn't even get the bloody name right!

Still, give it a go and see what you think about it.

[Bud Crue]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 25 July 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

I am not exaggerating the problem, and I don't think you understand "the problem".
The Problem is people who once played the game are put off by amount of effort required to reengage, especially players like myself who have well over a hundred mech, and enjoy playing a wide variety of chassis and builds.

And if you can "safely ignore the skill tree" why bother having it? It is complexity for the sake of complexity, which creates a barrier to entry for new and returning players.

Obviously I am not going to spend a lot of time debating it, if I was that concerned I would re-download the game and learn how to play from scratch. I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the downside of implementing a complexity grind-wheel.

Yes. What you said up above is true. It is a barrier. Yes, it will necessarily need to be changed with each build and each nerf and each change in game mechanics assuming you think all those incremental nodes have any value in the first place. Yes. It is a big ugly, down right silly pain in the a$$, cluster f*** of false choices and gated paths.

That said, the others are right as well, once you try it, and inevitably screw it up a few times, you will indeed find that you will tend to have about 2/3 of it the same for nearly ever mech because certain paths/choices/nodes have more value in this game than others, nearly across the board (e.g. you really don't need to try and max torso yaw very often, but torso speed might be kind of important, etc.). It may be a chore, but after a bit it is a fairly straightforward chore. Play the percentages and min/max where you can. If you are a casual like me you just won't notice a single 3.5% rate here or a +1 range there so don't worry about it.

[Curccu]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 25 July 2017 - 11:46 AM, said:

Hexclicker Online™ has pretty much divided the players into 5 groups I think:

• I fricking HATE IT and will NEVER play this game again
  
• I hate it but will still play
  
• Meh, it's in the game, I'll deal with it
  
• It's a good start
  
• I love the Skill Tree, it's made my mechs good

I put myself firmly in option one! For me it gives the illusion of choice, the improvements are minor and, once you get used to it, you pretty much build every mech in the same way (with some exceptions). Yep, it's an improvement on the old "rule of three" system and, in some ways, an improvement on the previous module system, but both these could have been fixed without this mess.

Why do people who will NEVER play this game again are still writing in this games forums, this has happened years already...
and then they give advice and opinions about new tech that they have never ever played with, because they NEVER play this game again...

Just wondering.