75 replies to this topic

[fogsworth]

Weapons should provide feedback when they do no damage.

[L1f3H4ck]

Sigh, why do people have to hijack threads to push their agenda all the time. This ain't about ATMs, if you want to talk about ATMs, there are other threads, or you can just start your own.

That said, I think minimum range needs to be streamlined, having different min range mechanics is just confusing and not very friendly to new players. Besides, the original concept of min range made it harder to hit with a weapon, it never made it impossible, so I'm all for a linear drop-off for all min ranged weapons.

[Shifty McSwift]

There are a number of things that make me laugh in this game, and a big volley of LRMs bouncing off a mech like potatos/nerf pellets is high up there on the list.

But yeah I wouldn't mind seeing the min range have a different meaning, and different for each weapon class isn't a bad thing either, the feedback idea was pretty cool too specifically for something like ERPPCs.

But I don't know about the idea of chopping up the percentage like suggested in the OP with LRMs, it just makes the min range lower and/or chops the min range penalty into half damage which makes the weapon function more like ATMs, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I am unsure if I like it yet as a concept. What else can you do with though really I guess.

Extending the min range onto all LRMs but just making it 50 or 40% of the original damage at that min range could definitely be interesting.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 06 August 2017 - 09:17 PM.

[Thorqemada]

Of Course!

I never was a fan of hard "Minimum Ranges" but an intelligent solution bcs in the Lore there are drawbacks when you use Weapons outside their range window but you can do it!

From damaging yourself, to reduced damage to reduced hit chances anything and more is possible...

Edited by Thorqemada, 06 August 2017 - 10:36 PM.

[AncientRaig]

I'd love to see min range for standard PPCs removed. It's one of the things that keeps me from running PPCs on my IS mechs. A lot of the time I want to bring a PPC on my mech to give it a high-damage weapon, but the min range of the standard PPC means that I have to either spend a considerable amount of tonnage on back-up weapons, or use ER PPCs which run too hot on anything other than a dedicated ER PPC sniper. Or use an SN PPC, which defeats the purpose of bringing the PPC in the first place because it has the same range as a Medium Laser for six times the tonnage and almost four times the heat.

[Darion Rothgarr]

Is lrms - Allow us to hot load them. The draw back is those launchers explode when critted like gauss.

Clan LRM - Disable the minimum altogether. Launchers do not explode on crit.

Ppc - feedback damage on your mech. The closer the mpre damage to your self but does normal damage
To your target. Feedback damage should also disable the ppc like a weapon jam, disabling it for a bit.

ATM - suffer the same issues as IS LRMS. Hpt load them but user beware. This means an ATM 3 will explode for 9 and an ATM 12 explodes for 36.


Thats my suggestion.

Edited by Darion Rothgarr, 07 August 2017 - 05:25 AM.

[Lord0fHats]

At the end of the day Clan LRMs are rendered worthless because they have all the problems on IS LRMS then some because they stream spreading damage even more and being even more easily destroyed by AMS. I think it was dumb they were slapped with an upward slope to begin with. They weren't worth using before.

I think removing the min range from IS LRMS would simply spawn a new Lurmaggedon. LRMS are one of the best DPS weapons. Their main draw back is that they spread damage all over the mech and have a min range that once inside renders them useless. Remove one of those and people will just start running LRM rush spam and out DPS every other weapon and not care because there's no minimum to force smart positioning.

I think LRMS are consistently the hardest to balance weapon in MWO (and probably one of the most divisive because of what they represent), but removing the min range is probably one of the worst proposals for them.

I haven't used ATMs because I can't figure out what purpose they even serve other than to toss Clans a bone on how boring their end of the update was.

I think a lot of people are intimidated by the minimum on normal PPCs, but I also think people really need to get over it. It's easy to stay out of 90 meters with most targets even in fast assault mechs, and the PPC is one of the best weapons in terms of its tonnage, range, heat, and damage. It's been a staple of comp play since the game began and still is. It hardly needs a buff, especially not one that simply allows bad players to face roll it mindlessly.

[Andi Nagasia]

Lord0fHats, on 07 August 2017 - 05:33 AM, said:

At the end of the day Clan LRMs are rendered worthless because they have all the problems on IS LRMS then some because they stream spreading damage even more and being even more easily destroyed by AMS. I think it was dumb they were slapped with an upward slope to begin with. They weren't worth using before.

I think removing the min range from IS LRMS would simply spawn a new Lurmaggedon. LRMS are one of the best DPS weapons. Their main draw back is that they spread damage all over the mech and have a min range that once inside renders them useless. Remove one of those and people will just start running LRM rush spam and out DPS every other weapon and not care because there's no minimum to force smart positioning.

I think LRMS are consistently the hardest to balance weapon in MWO (and probably one of the most divisive because of what they represent), but removing the min range is probably one of the worst proposals for them.

I haven't used ATMs because I can't figure out what purpose they even serve other than to toss Clans a bone on how boring their end of the update was.

I think a lot of people are intimidated by the minimum on normal PPCs, but I also think people really need to get over it. It's easy to stay out of 90 meters with most targets even in fast assault mechs, and the PPC is one of the best weapons in terms of its tonnage, range, heat, and damage. It's been a staple of comp play since the game began and still is. It hardly needs a buff, especially not one that simply allows bad players to face roll it mindlessly.

well its not a flat removing of weapons min range, but removing the hard limit on min ranges,
a IS LRM 20 for instance would do 10damage at 90m, and 0 at 0m,

[evilauthor]

Technically speaking, in TT, minimum ranges only make it more difficult for weapons to hit targets inside them, NOT impossible. But if they do hit, they still do full damage.

The obvious solution is that weapons with minimum ranges simply fail to converge properly on any aim point inside their minimum range. Of course we all know that PGI can't do proper convergence outside instant perfect convergence for some weird reason. Is it so hard to use an input variable OTHER than the one that comes from the targeting reticle rangefinder?

[Brain Cancer]

You could even *gasp* use a cone of fire that gets wider further into minimum range.

[C E Dwyer]

This seems to be a pole about eating away what little of the franchise remains in this game.

Lets have a poll on should this game be called generic easy mode robot game

[Thorqemada]

Andi Nagasia, on 25 July 2017 - 06:20 PM, said:

and in turn Replace it with Soft Min Range,
Weapons doing Degrading Damage in their Min Range,

IS PPCs
90m = Full Damage,
45m = Half Damage,
0m = No Damage,

IS LRMs
180m = Full Damage,
90m = Half Damage,
0m = No Damage,

C LRMs
180m = Full Damage,
90m = 3/4 Damage,
0m = Half Damage

C ATMs
120m = Full Damage,
60m = Half Damage,
0m = No Damage,

Should Hard Min Range be Removed?

=(Poll)=

Thoughts, Comments, Concerns?
Thanks

C-LRM are so light and you can boat them so easy it would make them a tottally op short range weapon...
I dont know ATMs...
PPC should do full damage but share the damage between the target and the targeter inside the min range 50/50...

[Andi Nagasia]

Cathy, on 02 September 2017 - 01:08 PM, said:

This seems to be a pole about eating away what little of the franchise remains in this game.

Lets have a poll on should this game be called generic easy mode robot game

well as in Lore and TT Min range ment an Accuracy penalty,
and not a hard, no damage, cant fire, min Range, which it is in MWO
-
i dont this this change proposed would be departing MWO from Lore,
if anything this change would make more sense TT/Lore wise in MWO,
as half damage can be explained as a near miss(accuracy penalty)

Thorqemada, on 02 September 2017 - 01:33 PM, said:

C-LRM are so light and you can boat them so easy it would make them a tottally op short range weapon...
I dont know ATMs...
PPC should do full damage but share the damage between the target and the targeter inside the min range 50/50...

um C-LRMs are light, but they are extreamly weak vs AMS and and cover as due to their stream fire,
also C-LRMs are an OP short range weapon? um no their really not, not by a long shot,

not sure about your PPC idea,

[MischiefSC]

At point blank Clan LRMs lose all those negatives.

I would swap the effects of IS and Clan LRMs. At point blank the streamfire is no issue and AMS is all but irrelevant. The weight advantage and size advantage is offset at range by streamfire but as a brawling weapon Clan LRMs are already superior with altered min range. For the tonnage they would literally be akin to SRMs.

Make them all the same. Scale down to 0.

[Andi Nagasia]

MischiefSC, on 02 September 2017 - 03:54 PM, said:

At point blank Clan LRMs lose all those negatives.

I would swap the effects of IS and Clan LRMs. At point blank the streamfire is no issue and AMS is all but irrelevant. The weight advantage and size advantage is offset at range by streamfire but as a brawling weapon Clan LRMs are already superior with altered min range. For the tonnage they would literally be akin to SRMs.

Make them all the same. Scale down to 0.

the reason i made C-LRMs degrade to 1/2 damage at 0 instead of 0 damage at 0 like IS-LRMs is to keep Flavor,
remember at around 80m you have to look down at a targets feet to hit their Torso, which in it self is a penalty,
also point blank C-LRMs would just act like IS-MRMs anyway(C-LRM20+A = 6Tons)(IS-MRM20 = 7Tons)