13 replies to this topic

[HIGH LORD KIT FAWKS THE WATCHFUL]

I love MechWarrior. But not for its mechs.

A humanoid mech is the worst possible engineering nightmare on the face of the combat field we call earth.

Too many joints, too many weak points, high center of gravity, little needed to topple a mech, weight on too small of a surface area, armor distribution nightmare, armor covering of joints nigh impossible, weapons recoil distribution, etc..etc.....I could go on and on.

I loved MWO for its technology, it's setting, and the way combat played out tactically by selective aiming of components. But let me be real here...

A tank, designed with the current tech of the game, would obliterate the competition. (If you want details on that I'll expand for you.

---

I would love to know if anyone has found a futuristic, tank based, slow paced FPS much akin to MWO but instead using tanks.

[Tarl Cabot]

A futuristic tank base game would not be slow paced. Introduction of Clans with a higher base speed than most IS mechs helps show that. Speed would be life in the future, unless there were shield generators.

I could get into Renegade Legion universe. Grav tanks. yeah baby!!

One of the neat things about having antigrav devices, the Grav tanks can be dropped from low orbit. No need to land a ship to unload them.

https://en.wikipedia...Renegade_Legion

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 06 August 2017 - 06:09 PM.

[Lily from animove]

dropping tanks form low orbit? LOL first to make a tank survive this needs additional features which would not enhance his combat abilities. Second an fat from orbit falling piece of metal? now thats in invitation to any simple guided missile system xD

These things are as unpractical as emchs themselves.

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 07 August 2017 - 03:39 AM, said:

dropping tanks form low orbit? LOL first to make a tank survive this needs additional features which would not enhance his combat abilities. Second an fat from orbit falling piece of metal? now thats in invitation to any simple guided missile system xD

These things are as unpractical as emchs themselves.

Don't you think when people are able to **** with gravity that they don't have those issues anymore?

[HIGH LORD KIT FAWKS THE WATCHFUL]

Uh. If I can drop a tank from orbit why would I not simply drop a 2 ton tungsten rod from low earth orbit on my enemies...?

But hey tat gam looks neat, any chance it's still played?

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 07 August 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

Don't you think when people are able to **** with gravity that they don't have those issues anymore?

they would solve issues anyways very different. but why install an gravity device on any tank and such, seems inefficient compared to alternate possibilities. Those games are existign for the sake of a game with mechs/tanks/aliens/whatever set up with a technology of X. None of them ever is in any way shape or form realistical as such techs would entirely make thinsg different. If youc an gravity why would you even build a tank looking like a tank. Well you wouldn't.
So discussing the "realism" is kinda nonsense. So you play it for the sake of the game, and make fun of the weird implemention why someone makes the things that way.

[Karl Streiger]

THE GOD KING URBIE LORD OF MECHS, on 07 August 2017 - 04:08 PM, said:

Uh. If I can drop a tank from orbit why would I not simply drop a 2 ton tungsten rod from low earth orbit on my enemies...?

But hey tat gam looks neat, any chance it's still played?

Because gods from rod is a very pure measure to capture infrastructure intact
or in other words you can use ortillery to remove enemy formations in the open, tanks to beat them in confinded spaces were ortillery is not an option, but you need PBI or BOGs to conquer

Lily from animove, on 07 August 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

So discussing the "realism" is kinda nonsense. So you play it for the sake of the game, and make fun of the weird implemention why someone makes the things that way.

You asked about sense or nonsense
there:

Quote

dropping tanks form low orbit? LOL first to make a tank survive this needs additional features which would not enhance his combat abilities

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 08 August 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

Because gods from rod is a very pure measure to capture infrastructure intact
or in other words you can use ortillery to remove enemy formations in the open, tanks to beat them in confinded spaces were ortillery is not an option, but you need PBI or BOGs to conquer


You asked about sense or nonsense
there:

No I wasn't asking for sense, Tarl replied that a futuristic would be fast because he seeked sense and then gave some description with the antigrav, but that description didn't make sense because such a future would look different to begin with.

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 08 August 2017 - 12:30 AM, said:

No I wasn't asking for sense, Tarl replied that a futuristic would be fast because he seeked sense and then gave some description with the antigrav, but that description didn't make sense because such a future would look different to begin with.

would it?
afar from the need to fight wars even in future when interplanetary or even interstellar travel is developed (don't see any reason anymor but the pure ignorant stupidy of mankind)
combat would only add a fourth combat terrain maybe a fifth

- Deep Space
- Orbital
- Aerial
- Ground
- Naval

non of those might be interchangeable with another - of course when turbines / agrav are strong and compact enough a tank might fly - but it would not be used as a derivative of an fighter or bomber.
It only helps to change from one combat theater into the next without a medium - for example when you need a drop ship to get your tanks from orbit onto the ground - they are vulnerable in the air, and while unloading - when you need a shuttle to get your tank from the ground into orbit you have issues but in the other direction

A controlled descent of a tank that can be deployed in low orbit would not help that tank much when it got targeted by a fighter (but maybe its armor and active defense is though enough that the guns and AA missiles of a fighter would not harm it) . So the defender would need multiple SAM and heavy AA guns to take out those tanks - but those are vulnerable against orbital fire.... so they might develop fast moving ground support crafts modified to take out flying targets -

hope you understand what i want to say

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 08 August 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

would it?
afar from the need to fight wars even in future when interplanetary or even interstellar travel is developed (don't see any reason anymor but the pure ignorant stupidy of mankind)
combat would only add a fourth combat terrain maybe a fifth

- Deep Space
- Orbital
- Aerial
- Ground
- Naval

non of those might be interchangeable with another - of course when turbines / agrav are strong and compact enough a tank might fly - but it would not be used as a derivative of an fighter or bomber.
It only helps to change from one combat theater into the next without a medium - for example when you need a drop ship to get your tanks from orbit onto the ground - they are vulnerable in the air, and while unloading - when you need a shuttle to get your tank from the ground into orbit you have issues but in the other direction

A controlled descent of a tank that can be deployed in low orbit would not help that tank much when it got targeted by a fighter (but maybe its armor and active defense is though enough that the guns and AA missiles of a fighter would not harm it) . So the defender would need multiple SAM and heavy AA guns to take out those tanks - but those are vulnerable against orbital fire.... so they might develop fast moving ground support crafts modified to take out flying targets -

hope you understand what i want to say

I don't thing ground vehicle tnaks would exist anymore. the reason we have ground vehickle tanks is that makign them fly is a huge ressource effort (and probably impossible with out tech). once oyu had antigravitational technology there would be no real air or ground specific difference anymore. antigrav isn't hivering that requires beeing near ground. So the main remaining forces for vehicles would be sea (as this is different physical conditions) and Space and athmospheric vehicles. Airplanes would probably not evene exist anmyore as their concept is rather bulky, wings are rather fregile just for "staying in the air". if you had a proper antigrav tech in a similar size as a airplanes wings and engines combined or smaller planes woudl turn into antigravity tanks. Unless this antigrav is so superexpensive that airplanes and usuall tanks are still the more economical choices. But airplanes are more expensive than tanks, so I guess before someoen makes antigrav tnaks he would replace planes with antigrav tehc first.

[Karl Streiger]

ok with grav as lift and propulsion might be one thing - but what about the main weapon?
Is it laser? In this case you don't need a turret ring because you can have one Laser apparatus in the vehicle but several lenses all over the vehicle - so no turret is needed. so its a hovering egg - with lenses pointing in all directions.
However this is the only weapon.. every other weapon i can imagine (Particle beam, Rail even Grav gun) need a "huge" barrel - and this makes a vehicle with a turret important again

question is also what about armor - when armor is not able to stop a high powered shot then a classical tank will be nonsense but this would include anything that could fly too.

so you can drop the number of combat theaters to deep space, orbital and closed quarter (infantry)
but hey when the others only have infantry with limited guns and support - lets try to bring a tank that can withstand infantry sized weapons.... tada we are back in the game

combat might evolve around stand off ammunition and the defense against stand off ammunition - with lots of active defense system on "vehicles" to move and protect your squishy BOGs or PBIs - and those will have weapons to deal with other vehicles as well.
So when it comes to a shoot out between vehicles and every hit is a kill shot the casualties will be high so one side will try to overcome this stalemate again

Edited by Karl Streiger, 09 August 2017 - 05:30 AM.

[Tarl Cabot]

In RL, grav tanks can be seen as interceptors with ground attack roles. To each their own.

http://bbs.stardestr...ic.php?t=136141

Grav vehicles

Quote

One of the most common technologies of the setting are anti-gravity devices that allow planetary vehicles, starfighters, and other machines to fly. The largest vehicles are corvette class starships used as scouts, couriers, and landing craft. The main unit of the armies of Renegade Legion are grav tanks, grav APC's for transporting infantry, and Bounce Infantry that use grav belts to enable them to jump long distances even while fully loaded. Gravity control is even used for nuclear devices in the form of a device known as a HELL bomb. The bomb instantaneously increases the local gravity to such an extent that nearby matter undergoes nuclear fusion and explodes.

Because of the use of Grav vehicles, roads are not nearly as important to armies of the Renegade Legion setting. Rivers often become major routes of travel as they are clear of obstructions. Tank battles can also occur far out at sea, as grav tanks fly above the surface of the ocean, popping up from the troughs of large waves and exchanging fire with the enemy forces.

However, the altitude limit of anti-gravity is usually several hundred feet, and the top speed is 500 miles per hour at that altitude. Flying a few feet above the ground is safer as grav vehicles are vulnerable to hits from below, and this also slows their top speed as they avoid crashing into terrain.

Shields

Quote

Most military vehicles, ships, and fighters are equipped with invisible energy shields. They deflect incoming attacks, though their protection is based on their flicker rate. Shields cannot run continuously, so instead they cycle on and off many times a second.

A fixed percentage of attacks are rendered harmless due to their flicker rates, and higher quality shields have a better ratio of on-cycles to off-cycles when compared to low quality shields. However, shields have limitations beyond this. In grav tank battles the solid metal rounds fired by main gun/Gauss cannon are not affected by shields, as well as Thor satellite attacks and nuclear detonations. Lasers, missiles, and infantry weapons are potentially stopped by shields, or hit with full impact depending if the shield was on or off at the moment of impact.

Shields are also directional. A ship or tank can have very powerful shields in one direction, but weak or even no shields in another direction. Grav vehicles usually have weak shield below them to save weight, and simply fly very close to the ground to avoid being hit in this weak spot.

Really decent novels of that universe - Renegade's Honor by William H. Keith, Jr.; and Damned If We Do …, Frost Death, and Monsoon, all by Peter L. Rice.

[Anjian]

If anyone thinks futuristic tanks are fun, someone would make a game out of it.

But most tank fans are into history, they love historical tanks best, and even modern tanks are not as popular, which makes futuristic tanks even less popular.

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 09 August 2017 - 05:29 AM, said:

ok with grav as lift and propulsion might be one thing - but what about the main weapon?
Is it laser? In this case you don't need a turret ring because you can have one Laser apparatus in the vehicle but several lenses all over the vehicle - so no turret is needed. so its a hovering egg - with lenses pointing in all directions.
However this is the only weapon.. every other weapon i can imagine (Particle beam, Rail even Grav gun) need a "huge" barrel - and this makes a vehicle with a turret important again

question is also what about armor - when armor is not able to stop a high powered shot then a classical tank will be nonsense but this would include anything that could fly too.

so you can drop the number of combat theaters to deep space, orbital and closed quarter (infantry)
but hey when the others only have infantry with limited guns and support - lets try to bring a tank that can withstand infantry sized weapons.... tada we are back in the game

combat might evolve around stand off ammunition and the defense against stand off ammunition - with lots of active defense system on "vehicles" to move and protect your squishy BOGs or PBIs - and those will have weapons to deal with other vehicles as well.
So when it comes to a shoot out between vehicles and every hit is a kill shot the casualties will be high so one side will try to overcome this stalemate again

depends. lenses everywhere wouldn't work well, as yous till need to "guide" the light to them to make them shoot in whatever direction. Also soem moveable component is needed for the fine aim, and giving that those lasers damage even tanks there wouldn't be much good chocies for such "laser beam transmitting medias" So guiding the beam to multiple lenses is unlikely. You will for sure not end up with a long barrel anymore, mostlikely with a lense on the front of the turretbase. But that really depends on the way how the antigravitation drive works. In fact you probably have a centered antigrav drive and build a spheric "turret" around it as this allows you to spin it in any direction since we are implying this is going to be ground/air combiend behivle anways.


Or you make a spheric object with multiple turrets around it. which can then attack multiple tagets in multiple directions at the same time. But then it really comes t how the antigrav works and if that also is used to generate the thrust for moving (which I guess it would)
Maye you even end up with kinda magnetic field hovering turrets around that sphere beeing the base for the antigrav drive.

but the classical scific antigrav tank is he one actually acting like a hover tank But that is a bit an unrealistical approahc if you really can make antigravitation work because you could utilize this way further

however Battlezone 98 redux available on steam which wa soen of the glassic interpretation on antigrav vehicle behavior. Less simulation and more arcadish but great fun back then and still great fun today.

Edited by Lily from animove, 11 August 2017 - 01:37 AM.