32 replies to this topic

[DaMuchi]

I'm using my phone so long story short, because there are no respawns. The entire game can be won by killing the enemy then completing the objective, so that is why all game modes devolve to skirmish. If the game had respawns, wiping the enemy team has less value and actually fighting for objectives becomes the only way to win. What do you guys reckon?

[justcallme A S H]

DaMuchi, on 10 August 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

What do you guys reckon?

Not another thread about respawn in QP?

Something that is simply, never going to happen?

[MrMadguy]

DaMuchi, on 10 August 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

I'm using my phone so long story short, because there are no respawns. The entire game can be won by killing the enemy then completing the objective, so that is why all game modes devolve to skirmish. If the game had respawns, wiping the enemy team has less value and actually fighting for objectives becomes the only way to win. What do you guys reckon?

Because most maps are badly designed. You know, this game is about dealing as much dmg, as possible, while taking as few dmg, as possible. So players always try to avoid areas, where enemies can deal damage to them without any punishment - open areas, where LRM boats and snipers can wreck you within just a few seconds. Most maps are too open, so players try to stick to any cover, available on that particular map. This makes their routes to predictable and deathballing happens as the result - game becomes too stale and boring, cuz RNG factor is big deal in PVP games.

Map with best design from this point of view - Turmaline Desert. It has 5 different areas with different gameplays - good center, area with high "walls", that is good for brawling, canyon, that is good for flanking, open area, that is good for sniping, balanced zone, that has both cover and open space.

All other maps either have lots of cover, but too small, or big enough, but way too open.

My guess - nobody among PGI plays their own game, so they don't even know, how to properly design maps for their game.

Edited by MrMadguy, 10 August 2017 - 10:34 PM.

[Kiiyor]

It's not because of lack of respawns; it's because of comfort, repetition and herd mentality.

There's only so many places two teams walking towards each other at roughly the same speed can meet. Given enough time, optimal paths will be figured out by the masses, and will filter down into the subconscious of most players.

It won't matter how many respawns you have. Players will still stick with what's familiar.

Sometimes, on some maps, you'll see attacks in different places, like on Tourmaline, where PUG fights can occur at the edge of the ring or at death valley - but generally, the path most taken is the path everyone treads. If you have an unfamiliar team, why would you choose unfamiliar tactics?

You stick with the herd, or get picked off by predators

Edit: spellin'

Edited by Kiiyor, 10 August 2017 - 10:42 PM.

[Khobai]

the problem is the gamemodes

skirmish is a lame *** gamemode and every gamemode is basically a lame variation of skirmish

the gamemode thats least like skirmish is conquest and conquest actually sees people utilizing different parts of the map

every gamemode being skirmish is fully 1/3rd of whats wrong with MWO. the other 2/3rds mostly being balance issues like convergence and poor IS vs Clan balance.

Edited by Khobai, 10 August 2017 - 11:14 PM.

[El Bandito]

DaMuchi, on 10 August 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

I'm using my phone so long story short, because there are no respawns. The entire game can be won by killing the enemy then completing the objective, so that is why all game modes devolve to skirmish. If the game had respawns, wiping the enemy team has less value and actually fighting for objectives becomes the only way to win. What do you guys reckon?

Negative. CW uses QP maps and it has respawn but people still do not use any more of the map.

[HGAK47]

I think having respawns in all modes would take away from the experience of this game. That being said however I do think there is growing interest in this idea. Perhaps conquest or incursion - if any would work with some sort of drop deck or something.

Honestly I am quite happy with solo single mech single life as it is but I am always open to new stuff. Just getting a little movement in the locations of objectives would help. (Move that domination circle somewhere different? How about a dom circle in the ice tunnel on Frozen City so we can pretend its beta again!)

[Khobai]

every gamemode being skirmish takes away from the experience of the game

[Pjwned]

There's various reasons why various parts of various maps are rarely used, but in addition to reasons that were already mentioned, there's also too many total players in most of the maps; at least it's a bit better than it used to be though with the old maps that were remade to be a lot bigger. Having fewer players in a match would allow for players to make unusual maneuvers with less chance of being spotted and gang banged, meaning that it might actually make sense to do something other than death ball for most of the game.

8v8 instead of 12v12 would fix a number of problems.

[SteelMantis]

The obvious problem with respawns is that they would make the opposite of playing the objective happen.

If I drop into QP and end up on the stronger team I'm pretty sure it would end up like FW and we would sit there and farm kills until the other team ran out of mechs. Or until somebody had to leave if it was limitless respawns.

I'd rather have multiple possible spawn points for each mode/map that were randomly decided if we want to use new places on the map.

Edited by SteelMantis, 11 August 2017 - 02:59 AM.

[Methanoid]

MrMadguy, on 10 August 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Because most maps are badly designed.

and not only are they badly designed, they are rehashed/recycled for all gamemodes that are unsuitable for them, alpine peaks conquest should differ GREATLY to alpine peaks skirmish, there should be proper ingress/egress to the objectives with decent cover at multiple locations while retaining specific areas of the map that can still fire into/near that cover, its PGI's lazyness that makes any gamemode other than skirmish/assault and at a push domination (dom could still do with better made maps) the only decent gamemodes.

[Lily from animove]

Well laservomit is a common used thing, so many dislike hot maps and prefer cool ones.

[Shifty McSwift]

Khobai, on 10 August 2017 - 11:08 PM, said:

the problem is the gamemodes

skirmish is a lame *** gamemode and every gamemode is basically a lame variation of skirmish

the gamemode thats least like skirmish is conquest and conquest actually sees people utilizing different parts of the map

every gamemode being skirmish is fully 1/3rd of whats wrong with MWO. the other 2/3rds mostly being balance issues like convergence and poor IS vs Clan balance.

I agree, but the game is what the players make it in ways too. More modes and moving around the objective positions for some variation in the given modes, would at the very least change up the strategy meta, as well as give better overall knowledge on maps and the like.

[Wildstreak]

DaMuchi, on 10 August 2017 - 10:17 PM, said:

I'm using my phone so long story short, because there are no respawns. The entire game can be won by killing the enemy then completing the objective, so that is why all game modes devolve to skirmish. If the game had respawns, wiping the enemy team has less value and actually fighting for objectives becomes the only way to win. What do you guys reckon?

[Curccu]

As topic says I would personally like multiple spawn (not random) point options so that battles could be fought in same map not in that always same area, for example forest colony is huuuge but battles are fought in same place ALWAYS.

[STEF_]

What does have to do respawn with old habits and mental laziness?

Imo, it would be even worse with respawn. (remembering mw4...)

Lily from animove, on 11 August 2017 - 02:34 AM, said:

Well laservomit is a common used thing, so many dislike hot maps and prefer cool ones.

and WHO KNOOOOOWS why?? /s

pgi nerfed gauss and dakka, that were my go to basic builds....so guess what weaponry I'm using the most....

[PyckenZot]

No respawns? Ever played faction warfare?

/thread

[Alexander of Macedon]

It's because the maps are poorly designed and have huge swaths of space (usually near the outer edges) which have no cover, no good firing positions, and no good angles of attack towards the enemy side of the center of the map. If you go there, you either get shot to pieces or arrive at the fight after it has already been decided, unless you do an immediate flanking run in a fast light at the very start of the match.

[Gristle Missile]

Sometimes you can get your team to take a different route than normal if you use coms

There was a glorious match where our assualts started at the very north beach on forrest colony - I had our team go meet up with the assaults at the beach route and come up behind the enemy. Absolute destruction because our enemies were expecting us on the complete other side.


I didn't even know that there were little dirt paths people could take to go up hills and stuff on that route too - it was cool to see

Edited by Gristle Missile, 11 August 2017 - 05:22 AM.

[sycocys]

MrMadguy, on 10 August 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Because most maps are badly designed.

My guess - nobody among PGI plays their own game, so they don't even know, how to properly design maps for their game.

These 2 things + static drop points and objective locations.