169 replies to this topic

[Asym]

Shifty McSwift, on 25 September 2017 - 12:28 AM, said:

I really don't mind the idea of strikes in general I would just prefer them to better fill the role they are designed for.

Right now they are just an expensive C-bill and skill point weapon that can be equipped at no weight or crit space, and used to safely pad damage scores.

Oh really, what role? Roles are long gone. Some light mechs are mini-assaults now and have all but given up "roles." Medium and Heavy mechs are losing ground on their traditional "roles" as nerfs and balance neuter them more and more. So, what does that leave? Oh, the Solaris mechs: the Assualt class..... You know those ponderous, pretty slow, towering arrays of a bazzillion weapons that want only to fight within 500 meters so they don't have to think or aim all that much....

I think Air Strikes and Artillery are "real roles" in MW; along with the Long Tom and Arrow IV..... Indirect fire should be increased and made even more lethal. No freaking smoke warning ! Just a verbal "Incomming" repeated several times.....

WHY? Because you hit the real issue on the head: "roles....." Indirect fire is a MW roles and has been for a long time and many of us actually enjoy that role and wou;d try our best to master that roles if the weapons and mechs that support that role get "un-Nerf'd" and allow us to pursur that specific role and most importantly, give us the capabilities of "real damage points" for specific, IDF weapons....... Un-Nerf us and turn us lose and I'd bet you, AMS, Radar Dep, ECM and cover would start to mean something again.......... There are IDF roles specific mechs..........

You'all can't have it both ways......

[Shifty McSwift]

Asym, on 25 September 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Oh really, what role? Roles are long gone. Some light mechs are mini-assaults now and have all but given up "roles." Medium and Heavy mechs are losing ground on their traditional "roles" as nerfs and balance neuter them more and more. So, what does that leave? Oh, the Solaris mechs: the Assualt class..... You know those ponderous, pretty slow, towering arrays of a bazzillion weapons that want only to fight within 500 meters so they don't have to think or aim all that much....

I think Air Strikes and Artillery are "real roles" in MW; along with the Long Tom and Arrow IV..... Indirect fire should be increased and made even more lethal. No freaking smoke warning ! Just a verbal "Incomming" repeated several times.....

WHY? Because you hit the real issue on the head: "roles....." Indirect fire is a MW roles and has been for a long time and many of us actually enjoy that role and wou;d try our best to master that roles if the weapons and mechs that support that role get "un-Nerf'd" and allow us to pursur that specific role and most importantly, give us the capabilities of "real damage points" for specific, IDF weapons....... Un-Nerf us and turn us lose and I'd bet you, AMS, Radar Dep, ECM and cover would start to mean something again.......... There are IDF roles specific mechs..........

You'all can't have it both ways......

Hey man, I made suggestions about lob/grenade trajectory weapons and AOE based weapons, but that is half of the point, as WEAPONS not consumables, in the consumable category it really should be more in the realm of area control than just bonus damage (the goal of area control is getting targets to move, if you get a target to move with an airstrike currently it is mostly considered a miss, not a success for example).

I'd love to see some guns based on aim firing lob trajectory projectiles, or even just a mode for LRM fire (I might use them if that were the case). And I agree that if there is a real warning that accompanies a strike, the damage should be substantial for targets that stay in the area.

[Asym]

Shifty McSwift, on 25 September 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

Hey man, I made suggestions about lob/grenade trajectory weapons and AOE based weapons, but that is half of the point, as WEAPONS not consumables, in the consumable category it really should be more in the realm of area control than just bonus damage (the goal of area control is getting targets to move, if you get a target to move with an airstrike currently it is mostly considered a miss, not a success for example).

I'd love to see some guns based on aim firing lob trajectory projectiles, or even just a mode for LRM fire (I might use them if that were the case). And I agree that if there is a real warning that accompanies a strike, the damage should be substantial for targets that stay in the area.

Not an attack on you my friend, you just said the right thing !

The support community sure would love to have a "real purpose" in FP and MWO as a whole....

It sure is frustrating that a brawling mechs can produce a lot of damage in <1 minute and it takes a LRM boat all game to do the same.... Just doesn't make sense.

Many of us want actual:
Smoke consumables that blind Night and Thermal vision and obsecures large areas of space for 45 seconds (these are Artillery delivered);
Mine consumables that are actually .5 ton weapons points on mech's with leg slots and the mines themselves are consumables (chase inhibitores);
Flares that are actual .25 tons weapons and the flares are consumables;
EMP active chaff dispensors that do the same thing the sensor stations in escort do: inhibit locks and BAP's (.25 ton weapons slots);
Calthrop dispensors that are .5 ton leg weapons and the clathrops are micro EMP mines and disable movement for 20 seconds till the mech gyros reset;
and,
to really ruin a light mech's leg humping antics,
a Self-Defense Grenade Dispenser that fits into an AMS slot and weighs 1 ton and the rounds are consumables that eject in a 360 circle around the attacked mech and detonate to strip circling mecks of weapons and cause self-damage as well. Aassault mech maybe can afford to lose some armor. The rounds have different explosive/fragment values and cost more as they get more sophisticated. Could lights survive that at or near the end of the match?

Now, wouldn't that create "roles" for some serious support mech tactics...

Edited by Asym, 25 September 2017 - 12:50 PM.

[adamts01]

Asym, on 25 September 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Medium and Heavy mechs are losing ground on their traditional "roles" as nerfs and balance neuter them more and more.

How are heavies neutered? I think they're the most powerful class by a landslide.

Asym, on 25 September 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

The support community sure would love to have a "real purpose" in FP and MWO as a whole....

Love the suggestions. I've been playing too much MWO, now that my computer is finished I need to head back over to Arma. Sneak around as a forward observer and lase enemies for laser guided artillery and gunship support.

[Brain Cancer]

Asym, on 25 September 2017 - 12:45 PM, said:

Many of us want actual:
Smoke consumables that blind Night and Thermal vision and obsecures large areas of space for 45 seconds (these are Artillery delivered);
Mine consumables that are actually .5 ton weapons points on mech's with leg slots and the mines themselves are consumables (chase inhibitores);
Flares that are actual .25 tons weapons and the flares are consumables;
EMP active chaff dispensors that do the same thing the sensor stations in escort do: inhibit locks and BAP's (.25 ton weapons slots);
Calthrop dispensors that are .5 ton leg weapons and the clathrops are micro EMP mines and disable movement for 20 seconds till the mech gyros reset;
and,
to really ruin a light mech's leg humping antics,
a Self-Defense Grenade Dispenser that fits into an AMS slot and weighs 1 ton and the rounds are consumables that eject in a 360 circle around the attacked mech and detonate to strip circling mecks of weapons and cause self-damage as well. Aassault mech maybe can afford to lose some armor. The rounds have different explosive/fragment values and cost more as they get more sophisticated. Could lights survive that at or near the end of the match?

Or, you know...most of those are actual tabletop things. Missiles have smoke warhead options. LRMs have minelaying capacity. Flares, too. Chaff pods exist. But no, no 360-degree grenade stuff. I get enough friendly fire as is without some meathead hitting the wrong button and AoE splattering his friendlies. You want AoE? Gimme Arrow IV and arty cannons, and I'll give the gifts that keep up giving.

The hilarious thing is...we'd have most of that if PGI could actually code in basic parts of Battletech, like ammo switching and the ability to mount weapons larger than 12 crit spaces properly.

Quote

Now, wouldn't that create "roles" for some serious support mech tactics...

Give me something besides standard explosive rounds, and I can turn a Catapult-A1 into a magic box of tricks.

[Krivvan]

Asym, on 25 September 2017 - 11:15 AM, said:

Oh really, what role? Roles are long gone. Some light mechs are mini-assaults now and have all but given up "roles." Medium and Heavy mechs are losing ground on their traditional "roles" as nerfs and balance neuter them more and more. So, what does that leave?

Just because the roles in the game aren't what a number of players think they are (spotting is a ridiculously dumb role for example, as opposed to scouting), doesn't mean that there aren't roles. Nor does it mean that roles have to be neatly defined between classes and that there can't be some overlap.

Take this game as an easy example: www.twitch.tv/videos/177163719?t=2m

The Lights are doing a traditional role of initial scout and fast response, in this case by taking the 3rd cap point because of the obvious disadvantage the bulk of the team has in the trading. The Lights are fought off, and the Mediums exhibit their role of flexibility in supporting Light groups when unable to accomplish it on their own. The Assaults form the clear centerpiece of firepower for the team whereas Heavies have just enough mobility to take advantage of extra positioning while still remaining a core of the main group.

Another example is here: www.twitch.tv/videos/176901167?t=46m50s

Often when a main engagement is occurring, the role of the Lights in combat is to pick off targets that have become weakened positionally.

There are Lights such as the Mist Lynx or Urbanmech that blur the line a bit and become lighter Mediums, and Mediums that blur the line with Lights such as Assassins and Ice Ferrets. Those mechs often serve a purpose in that they allow for a team to further specialize into certain roles if it is felt it is needed by essentially adding more Lights or adding more Mediums. As a simple example, maybe a team decides that they are going to try and kite or cap win against an opponent, in which case they may replace some Mediums with Ice Ferrets. Or perhaps they decide that they are going to try and hold a position instead and don't need fast response, at which point they may choose one of the slower Lights.

The role can be more situational as well, such as here: www.twitch.tv/videos/177162327?t=2m50s

In that game, for that team, the Light's role seems to be crucial in taking Theta allowing for the rest of the team to maintain their ranged playstyle and make it work on Conquest, while simultaneously baiting the other team to come out to get shot.

Roles aren't defined by class skills or smoke artillery or "support" equipment. They're defined by some mechs being able to do things that other mechs can't, and that certainly does exist in the game, even if in many random queue matches are too random to clearly notice it.

Edited by Krivvan, 25 September 2017 - 09:30 PM.

[Asym]

adamts01, on 25 September 2017 - 08:40 PM, said:

How are heavies neutered? I think they're the most powerful class by a landslide.

Yes and no. Depends on which ones PGI wants active and competitive...

Heavy mechs and slow mediums are flanking specialists: agile, quick and heavily armed that can exploit "seams" in flanks.
PGI has decided to nerf Agility......and, in most cases, weapons...

Take the Night Gyr, a fast-ish and agile pop-tarting heavy killer Pre-Skill tree. You could turn with many light mechs and accelerate/stop and reverse with ease. A really coooool mech I bought in February when I joined MWO. Seemed to fit a niche and had several neat variations. A real killer.

Then the new Skill Tree and the seveal balancing nerf's........ Now, it's slower than some assualts, even with 100% skill tree Mobility points and is out-right PONDEROUS..... A death trap. The Pop-tarting Gauss/PPC nerf'd to nothingness.... A wrecked mech platform without a future.... Timberwolf is a half a step behind the Gyr and dozens of other vehicles have been degraded to the point of questionable value..... WHY? To sell other new mechs and mech packs.....

Roles? A Gyr in a ballistic layout, pre skill-tree was a real flank threat..... Could Pop-tart over a firing line of Assaults and devestate anything it saw and share armor and firepower: now, almost never used because it simply can't maneuver anymore.....

Maneuver and Mass are keys to war..... Take away Maneuver and Mass means nothing....

[Y E O N N E]

And yet the Night Gyr, along with the Summoner, is dominating in MWOWC, where everything comes down to the wire, because their firepower remains phenomenal, especially at long range.

[Asym]

oh good grief......

I watched a few matches and saw several SuperNova's all decked out in Large Lasers standing still, on top of a hill, shooting whatever moved... If Gyr's were used, good luck, because shooting long range is all they can do now.............. I own and use 5 of them and they are worthless without the Agilty PGI stole....... Give that and the weapons nerf's back and look out..

[Asym]

And, if PGI added what I and many others have suggested in this forum piece, MWOWC would be "something" else because those Gyr's or Super Nova's wouldn't last 5 minutes taking pot shots at long range from hill tops..... It's called the Arrow IV and flys further than the PPC and Gauss......and, scouts can't miss a PPC or the purple trail of a Guass and target the hill, and, the DPICM destroys the entire hill and those mechs can't get away fast enough..... Bad snipers.

That is why Artillery is the King of the Battlefield........eh?!