28 replies to this topic

[Voivode]

Hey all, while I'm not technically 'new', I am peeking back in at MWO after a haitus of more than a year, and after reading about some of the changes, I kind of feel noobish.

So....about those changes. I see that they introduced heavy and light versions of Gauss Rifle, machine guns, and PPC. Those seem straightforward enough to understand but I'm interested in what people think of them.

Rotary ACs: how did PGI go about implementing them? What separates these from the standard ACs and UACs, especially with clan AC/UAC firing in rapid succession?

Medium Range Missiles: besides the range, what differentiates these from the SRMs and LRMs that were already in the game? How does Aretmis apply to them?

Laser AMS: Seems straightforward enough: impressions?

Clan ATM missile slot items and IS Rocket Launcher: What are these and how do they work? Does Artemis come into play with these?

IS Light Engine: Does this just work like the Clan XL in that losing one side torso won't kill you but losing both will?

Stealth Armor: Does the eponymous 'stealth' just reduce your radar footprint? If so, how effective is it?

Tacticon B-2000 Battle Computer: Um...what?

[Kitty Bacon]

Hello and welcome back!

So, I can help answer some of these, but its probably better to try them out your self if you are curious.

RACs are nice. Atleast, I have found them to be very fun when run in dual pairs. They act as they sound, they are like a minigun with a spin up time. The longer you fire, the higher the spin bar goes. When it goes red, you can jam the gun like you can a UAC5. They fire in a huge stream and require a lot of face time to get the damage out there.

Medium Range missiles are one of my new fav weapons. They act in the middle of SRMs and LRMs but still dumb fire. MRMs fire in a stream of missiles like Clan LRMs (but not in the long streams they have) and have a fairly wide spread to them. The amount of missiles you can throw though is awesome. 3 MRM10s on a medium mech is 30 damage, at the same tonnage of 3 SRM6s. The difference, you can hit out to 400m and do good damage across an enemy mech. Great mid range weapons, IMO.

Laser AMS is nice. Hot, but nice. When running 1 it can be a nice thing to have when missiles are flying around. 2 makes you overheat if there are lots of missiles so its kind of a good news bad news situation. Good news, no ammo and can fire as long as its on. Bad news, it builds heat.

IS light engines work like Clan CL engines. They are heavier than XL engines, lighter than standard engines, but take 2 crit slots per side torso. So IS mechs can now survive if they lose half their mech. Granted if you do, you're heat cooling and speed are effected. But atleast you can still fight. They are amazing!

Stealth armor lets one hide from radar contact. While Stealth Armor is active, you do not bleed heat. So, ambient heat gen can overheat you since while its on, you can not cool down. When its active, however, you are invisible to radar. The enemy can still see you with their naked eye so, can be stealthy.

The Battle Computer is unique to the Cyclops. It gives nearby allies an increased radar range of 150m. Just a nice gimmick for the Cyclops.

Edited by Kitty Bacon, 30 August 2017 - 10:14 AM.

[Voivode]

OK, that clears a bit up, thanks!

I saw there are some new maps and game modes in here. When I left they had just introduced the escort and I only ever played it once. What do you think about the new game modes? I plan on jumping in for sure, I just want to see what others think of the game. Did they make any significant changes to the mechanics of the game or the way any of the existing weapon systems function?

[Voivode]

Also, does Artemis simply tighten the grouping of MRMs as it does for SRMs?

[Kitty Bacon]

With how the skill tree is implemented and how some mechs that used to be horrible (Vindicator) but now perform well in a given roll, the game has brought more variety in. I took a 6 month hiatus until last month and, compared to 6 months ago, the game feels better. You will still see the Gauss/PPC meta, but now its more laser vomit, stuff you can torso twist the damage and survive being hit as opposed to being full frontal damage.

And no. The only thing that tightens MRM spread are the skill quirks or mech quirks that influence missile spread. Art does nothing to MRMs.

The new game modes are fun. Even though most of the time they still end up being skirmish with objectives

Edited by Kitty Bacon, 30 August 2017 - 10:28 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Kitty Bacon, on 30 August 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

With how the skill tree is implemented and how some mechs that used to be horrible (Vindicator) but now perform well in a given roll,(...)

Quite some mechs gained new life with skill tree and new tech, but Vindicator? I could make them work right before the skill tree, even 1X. Now- not really. All they really 'gained' is decreased agility, and agility is crucial for a 45 tonner with that geometry and that hardpoint locations. Now they're so sluggish it's not even funny. And a sluggish 45-tonner is a useless 45-tonner, no matter the generous armor quirks.

[Kitty Bacon]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 30 August 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

Quite some mechs gained new life with skill tree and new tech, but Vindicator? I could make them work right before the skill tree, even 1X. Now- not really. All they really 'gained' is decreased agility, and agility is crucial for a 45 tonner with that geometry and that hardpoint locations. Now they're so sluggish it's not even funny. And a sluggish 45-tonner is a useless 45-tonner, no matter the generous armor quirks.

Thats odd. I have had a lot of good games in my Vindis. They seem to handle well and perform good but maybe its just me. I have yet to run the 1X, afterall. Put 5 ERsmalls and a MRM30 with 2 AMS on one of em and it performs good as a second line support mech. But again, might just be me.

[The Basilisk]

Voivode, on 30 August 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Hey all, while I'm not technically 'new', I am peeking back in at MWO after a haitus of more than a year, and after reading about some of the changes, I kind of feel noobish.

So....about those changes. I see that they introduced heavy and light versions of Gauss Rifle, machine guns, and PPC. Those seem straightforward enough to understand but I'm interested in what people think of them.

Rotary ACs: how did PGI go about implementing them? What separates these from the standard ACs and UACs, especially with clan AC/UAC firing in rapid succession?

Medium Range Missiles: besides the range, what differentiates these from the SRMs and LRMs that were already in the game? How does Aretmis apply to them?

Laser AMS: Seems straightforward enough: impressions?

Clan ATM missile slot items and IS Rocket Launcher: What are these and how do they work? Does Artemis come into play with these?

IS Light Engine: Does this just work like the Clan XL in that losing one side torso won't kill you but losing both will?

Stealth Armor: Does the eponymous 'stealth' just reduce your radar footprint? If so, how effective is it?

Tacticon B-2000 Battle Computer: Um...what?

-- RACs: You push the button and hold it Weapon spinns up and eventualy starts to fire...jam bar gets full after some time and as long as it is full the possibillity of a jam grows. When it jams or you stop firing there is a ramp down time like with UACs.

-- MRMs: Like SRMs with ledd dmg per missile, more tubes, better range, horrible spread and a streaming firing mode instead of the splat of the SRMs. The increddible mass of rockets you throw at your enemy can make up for it but its an odd weapon.

-- ATMs: work like SSRMs or LRMs. They got a lock on mechanik but can be fired without. Their flight curve is much flatter than LRMs and they are faster. Between 120m and 270 m they do 3dmg per missile, 350-540m 2 dmg per missile, 620-1100m 1 dmg per missile. So a double ATM12 would do 72 dmg at 200m. 48 at 400m and 24 at 650m. In the range brackets between 270-350, 540-620 their dmg drops linear to the next lower level.

--Rocketlaunchers are oneshot rocket racks with 50m min range.

--Lightengines work like clan XL but are heavier.

--Stealth cancels out all but vislight as long as its activated and your armor is not breached anywhere.
As long as it is activated your mech can not actively dissipate heat. So you will slowly run hot on hot maps and on very cool ones you will only slowly cool down. You can fire your weapons but remember you have no active sensors or link to your team.

-- TC B2000 is a special equipment part of the Cyclops battlemech extending your sensor range and that of team mates.
Yours is 150% that of teammates is supported too but less than your own.
What is interesting is that this supports your base value. Skills go from these base value. The effect may be enlarged by bringing beagle probe and Targeting computers.

Vindicators...XD

[Kitty Bacon]

The Basilisk, on 30 August 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Vindicators...XD

VND-1AA Its pretty fun as a second line mech. But, its more the pilot than the mech.


I also forgot something important; Light Ferro is nice for IS mechs now. It saves on weight for the heavier mechs while only taking 7 crit slots. It pairs well with LFE engines for heavies and assaults. Not to the scale of XL engines, but it is nice, none the less.

[Voivode]

When I left there were some changes being made that impacted most lights negatively. How are light mechs fairing these days? Especially my favorite little light, the Commando?

[Voivode]

Also, is the flamer worthwhile yet?

[The Basilisk]

Voivode, on 31 August 2017 - 05:20 AM, said:

When I left there were some changes being made that impacted most lights negatively. How are light mechs fairing these days? Especially my favorite little light, the Commando?

Lights have largely being brought down to reality when their eternal lag and distortionshield was take mostly away. Sometimes there are still issues where lights seem to be invulnerable or badly desynct but its mostly due to realy bad pings or guys abusing the jumpjet issue or mech collision issues.

There are several lights that have profited greatly from the skilltree. Commando is one of them.
While there are still for anything he is able to do at least one other mech doing it better he isn't completely invalid anymore.

Voivode, on 31 August 2017 - 05:25 AM, said:

Also, is the flamer worthwhile yet?

Define worthwhile?
Flamer does virtualy no damage and has 90m range.
What it does is heating most mechs up so much they can't realy use their weapons.
The main issue is that you can not stunlock with flamers.
If the other guy has MGs or Gauss you're effed up.
If the other guy knows what he is doing he will go into override kill you and then shut down.

So no it isn't realy worth while to me since I think killing is always better (even when I get killed by override) than trying to debilate an enemy.

Edited by The Basilisk, 31 August 2017 - 05:38 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Kitty Bacon, on 30 August 2017 - 03:31 PM, said:

VND-1AA Its pretty fun as a second line mech. But, its more the pilot than the mech.

That gives you 13 damage on your lasers and 30 mrm damage that spreads a lot. Really, really underwhelming. You don't really have any impact on the match result, except when your team really needs that AMS. Your damage numbers may look OK-ish because of MRMs, but that's in large part useless damage, good for xp and c-bills, but that's it. Once tried to make MRM40 BJ-2 work. Got good damage usually, was rarely able to actually kill anything. My 'record' was like 800dmg an 0 kills, and not because they got stolen, I just wasn't able to focus damaged components at all. IMHO, useful MRM alpha starts at like 60.

The Basilisk, on 31 August 2017 - 05:35 AM, said:

Define worthwhile?
Flamer does virtualy no damage and has 90m range.
What it does is heating most mechs up so much they can't realy use their weapons.
The main issue is that you can not stunlock with flamers.
If the other guy has MGs or Gauss you're effed up.
If the other guy knows what he is doing he will go into override kill you and then shut down.

So no it isn't realy worth while to me since I think killing is always better (even when I get killed by override) than trying to debilate an enemy.

Flamers have their niche and can be extremely useful or totally useless depending on the situation. Kinda hard to find a place for them on most builds, because you still need to do damage and you can't run hot, but they can work offensively on faster mechs. Got 1 centurion with lbx10, 2rms4 and 2 flamers, other with 2 flamers and 3rms6. Point is to NOT hope the enemy will shut down - aim for getting him over the limit and burning from the inside while you pound him with your own weapons.
Also:
-if he has MGs and you still got armor on - he's still effed, not you.
-if he's got gauss, it's most probably a gaussvomit build, so he lost "only" part of his forepower.

They can be crazy fun sometimes. My best match with flaming cents was winning 2 consecutive 1on1 brawls with an Atlas and a Cyclops within like a minute. Yes, they didn't have override on, poor things.

Flamers are unpopular mostly because you don't get credited for overheat damage you caused, nor for overheat deaths you cause. Unless you got the killing blow on a burning mech or killed a shutdown, the scoreboard basically ingnores your contribution.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 31 August 2017 - 06:48 AM.

[Voivode]

Good stuff to know, thanks all.

How are LBX's now? I know when I left they'd tightened the shot grouping a couple times to try and make them competitive with other AC types and IIRC they also have a higher crit chance against internals.

Edited by Voivode, 31 August 2017 - 08:26 AM.

[Kitty Bacon]

Voivode, on 31 August 2017 - 08:25 AM, said:

Good stuff to know, thanks all.

How are LBX's now? I know when I left they'd tightened the shot grouping a couple times to try and make them competitive with other AC types and IIRC they also have a higher crit chance against internals.

The LBs are still a spread weapon but I have seen a lot of Warhammer 6Rs with 2 LB20s lately. Guess the Boomhammer has another loadout now for hot maps since the LB20s do not have ghost heat. Plus 4 LB10 Cyclops and Annihilators have been spotted about doing huge damage. I use 2 on a Bushwacker and they feel very very nice. The 2 LB20 4 SRM Scorch and Madcat IIs are freaking deadly in brawls too..

[InspectorG]

Voivode, on 30 August 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Hey all, while I'm not technically 'new', I am peeking back in at MWO after a haitus of more than a year, and after reading about some of the changes, I kind of feel noobish.

...

You will want to research skill tree builds for your mechs. All your XP and Modules have been refunded.

Engine de-synch has gimped a few mechs, mainly the heavier assaults.

IS LF Engines are decent on certain mechs but not the panacea that it was hoped to be.

Doritos on the Radar are no longer doritos, but diamonds.

Solo play has gotten worse, skill-wise. PSR is a sad joke. I recommend comms and leading if you prefer to win.

Light Machine Guns are great if you can equip 4+ on a light.

Mediums are kinda-sorta-depends weaker than Lights - skill being the determinant. Those 3HML+6LMG Arctic Cheeters are nice if you do lights. MIst Lynx is similar but squishier.

The Good new tech: MGs, Heavy lasers, MRMs, IS-UACs, IS-ERML, LFE, and maybe light PPC if you can boat them.

Bad new tech: LB20, Stealth Armor(gimmick), rockets(trollolo), RAC(too much facetank), ATMs(verdict still out but not looking good), Laser AMS(one is ok but hot as balls)

Try not to use a slow Assault in Solo unless you know how to deal with getting left behind.

Gauss rifle and Peeps are linked via Ghost Heat now, because reasons.

Lazorvomit is king again, but Dakka / Gaussvomit / Brawling arent that far behind.

Skill Tree + engine decouple + more facetank weapons = PGI trying to slow down the game, for good or ill.

Polar Highlands is the scrub Lurmers delight. New Terra is better than Old Terra. Forrest Colony likely will drop your FPS.

Escort is a terrible game mode.

Incursion is pretty bad.

Yes, its normal for Pugs to not press R, look t their radar, or even press W.

Welcome back.

[Voivode]

OK, so I logged back in last night for an hour or so....and spent the entire time dorking around with the skill tree on like two mechs

Is there a smurfy like tool that let's you experiment with skill tree builds? It might be nice to get a grasp on some thought experiments outside the game menus

[Lorcryst NySell]

Voivode, on 01 September 2017 - 05:18 AM, said:

Is there a smurfy like tool that let's you experiment with skill tree builds? It might be nice to get a grasp on some thought experiments outside the game menus

Yes, here.

Welcome back, and thank you for this thread, I had to leave the game for three months and I'm a bit lost too !

[Koniving]

Voivode, on 30 August 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

Also, does Artemis simply tighten the grouping of MRMs as it does for SRMs?

It does not. (Though there was a bug where it did at first). Artemis does nothing for MRMs at all. The kind of thing it should do for Streaks...yet for some reason PGI still hasn't given that a separate lock system.

MRMs are not a guided weapon, and thus Artemis cannot enhance it.

Funny, that, isn't it? PGI takes note of that rule... and yet SRMs are still not guided in MWO..... despite being canonically guided weapons. Huh.

ATMs supposedly got unenhanced by Artemis... but as far as I can tell lockon speeds are still enhanced, just nothing else. (Much like streaks are when they aren't supposed to be). Somewhat unavoidable until PGI creates a separate lock mechanic for non-Artemis-compatible lock weapons.

Side note: I saw answers about RACs, failed to mention is that RAC heat also ramps up exponentially when the jam bar fills. This is quadrupled and occurs instantly if you fire more than 2 RACs. Well at least 3 RAC/5s or 2 RAC/5s + RAC/2.. Completely unfeasible. But you can alternate between 2 RAC/5s and 2 more RAC/5s without a problem. Shoot til the bar fills and then switch for a near constant stream of obliterating fire at 20 damage per second. Just note: You might be able to sustain it for about 6 to 8 seconds and become a sitting duck.

Edited by Koniving, 01 September 2017 - 07:41 AM.

[Voivode]

Alright, thanks for the information all. Played some rounds with new stuff and so far I'm impressed with the changes. It's a much less frustrating game to play than when I left. Good on PGI.

One more question, though. Is the Heavy Gauss intended to be a brawling/close range weapon (akin to the Snub Nosed PPC)? It lists max range as 900 but optimal as 180, so I'm not totally sure what the intended purpose of it is.