28 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

Voivode, on 04 September 2017 - 05:40 PM, said:

Alright, thanks for the information all. Played some rounds with new stuff and so far I'm impressed with the changes. It's a much less frustrating game to play than when I left. Good on PGI.

One more question, though. Is the Heavy Gauss intended to be a brawling/close range weapon (akin to the Snub Nosed PPC)? It lists max range as 900 but optimal as 180, so I'm not totally sure what the intended purpose of it is.

It's a Gauss Rifle.
in BT it has a long range, but while immensely powerful at short range, the damage drops off quickly due to the sheer weight of the projectile.
(AC/20s being 2-to-100 shots to get 20 damage with piss poor accurate range [so the largest shells delivering 10 damage due to a high explosive payload], so now imagine the sheer size of a 25 damage projectile that delivers this damage by pure kinetic energy alone... Note that the IS AC/20s capped out at 4 shots to get 20 damage per cassette [magazine reload]. For a better idea.. BT ammo counts. AC/20 gets 6 reloads per ton of 2 to 100 shots per reload. Gauss Rifle gets 8 shots per ton, the Long Tom Cannon gets 10 shots per ton. The Heavy Gauss Rifle gets 4 shots per ton....)

PGI's idea of what the Long Tom Cannon "is."...

In MWO, it did 1300 something damage as a "maximum" to a single mech.
If you take BT damage for all of the areas combined and DOUBLE them, you'd get a maximum of 570 damage against 19 mechs. That's doubled... Across the entire surface area, which is only 90 meters from the center, as opposed to MWO's 270+ meter explosion.

Heavy Gauss in BT is supposed to be freaking huge, where Gauss Rifles supposedly have barrels the size of cockpits (see Hollander), the Heavy Gauss Rifle is supposed to be ginormous and the barrel too short to be able to send the projectile terribly far.

As such the damage drop off is supposed to be 25 at 0-360 meters. (With the first 120 meters being poor accuracy due to charge delay [and how quickly someone can get out of the way if all they need to do is between a single step to four steps. Plus the big visual warning]. At 390 to 570 damage, it's supposed to do 20 damage. And from 600 meters onward, 10 damage until the shot becomes impossible With Extended Long Range, it becomes 5 damage at around 900 meters.

In MWO... PGI took short range as "that's where 25 damage stops" and then had it gradually die off to their version of "max range * 5", hence stopping at 900 meters for damage. Heavy Gauss doesn't appear all that big, either, even though it consumes an entire side torso.

So.. I guess it's a brawling weapon? Maybe? Their direction isn't clear with it.

I honestly don't know what the heck they were thinking.
If it was 25 damage to 8 times 180 meters... that'd be pretty useful, as at the ideal range for standard Gauss Rifle it'd beat the Heavy Gauss... but at extreme ranges and at close ranges, the Heavy Gauss would be the better choice. And the damage return on extreme ranges with low ammo isn't worth while.

[Voivode]

I see. Been trying to come up with a build that utilizes it and looking over the stats it seemed like a weapon with no clear role, so I guess I was more or less correct with that assumption. It doesn't seem to offer anything that compelling over the AC/20 as far as I can tell.

I've really been digging the MRM and ATM weapon systems. Great on mediums and faster heavies.

[Koniving]

Voivode, on 05 September 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

I see. Been trying to come up with a build that utilizes it and looking over the stats it seemed like a weapon with no clear role, so I guess I was more or less correct with that assumption. It doesn't seem to offer anything that compelling over the AC/20 as far as I can tell.

I've really been digging the MRM and ATM weapon systems. Great on mediums and faster heavies.

Longer range than the AC/20. Continued damage going well past that of an AC/20.

But honestly in its current implementation, there isn't much good going for it.
A decent build idea is to make a 70 ton+ "Hollander."
....That's really about it.
Some 90+ tonners can pull off a twin Hollander concept...as almost literally your only weapons.

If it had the real power of the tabletop... the damage would be equivalent to 50 per shot (double damage compared to our double armor), but only fire once in about 10 seconds. Most mechs using it have a chance of being knocked down when firing it (I'm not kidding it is supposed to be massive.)

Spoiler

Then again the "Gauss Prototype" Crucis Type V chassis Hunchback 4Gs, while highly successful in their mission, were considered such a colossal failure due to the fact that even stationary and braced, the Hunchbacks had a high chance of falling over with every shot fired, and so they would fire, fall, stand, fire, fall, stand with standard Gauss Rifles. Now this is the Crucis Type V chassis, made for a smaller caliber AC/20 at 120mm rather than the Komiyaba Type VII which is built to handle the 185mm Tomodzuru AC/20; the largest one built in the Inner Sphere which the Crucis replaced since it was economically unprofitable and for many reasons impossible to build new Komiyaba Type VIIs. Since the two are not dissimilar in size and the Crucis is supposed to be half a meter taller than the Komiyaba Type VII Hunchback... I'm certain the Komiyaba Hunchback wouldn't handle it either.

So canonically, very few mechs 50 tons (or less) mechs could be modified to start carrying even standard Gauss Rifles The Hollander is specially designed, and despite being 35 tons it is actually much larger than the Hunchback with specially designed legs to brace for the sheer kinetic force that is supposed to be behind the Gauss Rifle. I used to find this strange since Gauss Rifles and Rail Guns seem to be recoil-less, but that is actually not true. Rail guns and by extension coil guns do actually have recoil. However rather than exuded suddenly like with an explosive gas projectile, it is exhibited throughout the entire duration of acceleration and to a lower extent due to being spread out.)

Anyway from calculating the results of different setups, 8 times range from 180 would yield very worthwhile, but comparable results with other weapons. Or going from 360 and 3 times would also make it quite competitive, too.

Overall I find it really disappointing that this legendary powerful yet flawed system... only exhibits flaws without the power.

[SnagaDance]

I had the same issue, wondering what to make of this weapon, and not wanting to spend a load of C-bills on something that I didn't know I'd enjoy.

I came across a video by baradul (MoltenMetal on YouTube) that showcases the weapon:

It sure gave me more insight but I'm still struggling to find an actual good use versus other weapon options. Like a regular Gauss rifle with its better ammo per tonnage and a good range, while allowing me to take a Light Engine and up the power of my support weaponry. Or dual AC/5s, or some PPCs...

[Voivode]

Alright, I appreciate all the help you guys have given me. I've gotten some drops in and I'm much more familiar with the changes. I do have another question, though.

When a mechs base quirks (before the skill tree comes into play) indicate that it has +20% PPC velocity does that ONLY apply to standard PPCs or does that velocity increase also cover Heavy PPC/ER-PPC/Light-PPC? Obviously this only applies to IS mechs, but I wasn't necessarily clear on whether this was a weapon family quirk (akin to "Ballistic Cooldown") or a single weapon quirk (akin to "AC/20 Cooldown").

[Lorcryst NySell]

Hmmm ... a couple of months ago I would have said that quirks were applied by classes of weapons, but it looks like that changed during my last break ...

As far as I know, and I'll be glad to be corrected if I'm wrong, now the quirks apply only to the specific weapon system when it is listed.

For example, the Thunderbolt TDR-9SE that I'm xp'ing right now has quirks for Energy Cooldown, Heat and Range, as well as an IS Large Pulse Laser Heat quirk.

So to directly answer your question, I think that a +20% PPC Velocity quirk would only apply to standard PPCs, but I would need to know which chassis you are referring to exactly so I can double-check myself.

There's a website, here, that lists quirks and is searchable, and it looks like it's up to date too.

[Voivode]

Yeah, after looking into it more I believe you are correct. I was referring specifically to the Awesome 8Q (IS PPC Velocity quirk) but when I went to update my Awesome 9M build I noticed it has a specific IS ERPPC Velocity quirk. Kind of indicates the 8Q quirk applies to standard PPCs only.

Edited by Voivode, 14 September 2017 - 05:24 AM.

[Mechwarrior4670152]

Hover your mouse over the weapon in the mechlab.

If the quirk applies, it will show different stats.
For the AWS-8Q, it shows bonuses from quirks for the Heavy PPC, as well as the standard, ER, and Light.

In other words, for that mech at least, the quirks are for PPC class weapons.

[Horseman]

Voivode, on 30 August 2017 - 08:58 AM, said:

Rotary ACs: how did PGI go about implementing them? What separates these from the standard ACs and UACs, especially with clan AC/UAC firing in rapid succession?

They don't use the double-tap mechanic at all. Much like MGs and Flamers, you have to hold down fire continuously. When fired, the weapon has a spin-up time before it starts firing, and as long as you fire the jam bar will fill - once full, you risk jamming the weapon for several seconds.

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Medium Range Missiles: besides the range, what differentiates these from the SRMs and LRMs that were already in the game? How does Aretmis apply to them?

Larger salvo compared to LRM launchers of same weight, and a lot of missiles per ton of ammo.

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IS Light Engine: Does this just work like the Clan XL in that losing one side torso won't kill you but losing both will?

Yes.

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Stealth Armor: Does the eponymous 'stealth' just reduce your radar footprint? If so, how effective is it?

It negates several means of detection that defeat normal ECM.

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Tacticon B-2000 Battle Computer: Um...what?

Built in equipment on the Cyclops. Sensor range buff and a team buff extending sensor range of nearby friendlies.