84 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

[MadRover]

Brain Cancer, on 03 September 2017 - 02:29 PM, said:

Wut? Stay in your group, make sure you're pumping firepower in to help your light elements deal with theirs, then win.

The problem lies in many pilots not considering lights an immediate threat, nor their lights being valuable resources in keeping them from gnawing you to death. I love it when I see enemy lights being engaged by my own scouts, there's gonna be "INCOMING MISSILES" happening ASAP, if an unintercepted light is incoming it's getting fed ATMs and laser fire posthaste until it's either neutered or bugs out. Don't chase the squirrel, but don't be afraid to pop it one when it thinks it's a good idea to make an attack pass. Do take lights attacking someone in LOS as an excuse to burn them a new piehole, too.

Lights get more dangerous as match time increases. Kill them early and you're swinging the game in your favor in a hurry, assuming your own lights are smart enough to be patient on the big targets and helping cover you against the smaller ones.

t. The guy in that big ol' missile boat who respects anything smaller and faster than he is as dangerous.

He doesnt even need to be exactly close to his group. He just need to be near his group so they can do a quick response as necessary

[Toothless]

Millennials killed the mid to long range mech design.

[Lykaon]

Asym, on 04 September 2017 - 05:12 AM, said:

Well, for us average pilots, what the OP has inferred is true......... Even a lot of streaks can't kill some of the lights.....sorry, that is what I experience every day; and, "getting GuD", with 2 streak 4 batteries and 4 lasers, even with a lock isn't working.... All it does is change a yellow to an orange and then you run out of ammo and overheat and die............and, that light then goes on to run "into the deathball" and kills 2-3 more mechs with MG's, getting blasted the entire way..... In some matches, the light doesn't die at all and the rest of us are scratching our heads????

Please, no hate responses.... We try and are still here.... This is just what average pilots face and there isn't a "getting GuD" solution set for many of us...... We just want to play and hope the better pilots understand that not everyone wants to be a competitive pilot or be a part of a competitive team....

No hate but...

get GUD!

Part of your issue maybe you are expecting better results from a loadout that isn't capable of producing the results you want.

You may be under estimating the actual armor values on light mechs and not putting enough UMPH on your anti light mech loadouts.

For example" a Myst Lynx has over 200 armor in total that's over 1 full ton of SSRM ammo to scrub all the armor off a 25 ton mech.

So 2 streak 4s and four medium lasers isn't all that much firepower but...a Streak-Dog with SIX SSRM6s and some small pulse lasers utterly erases a light mech in seconds.

get GUD doesn't just mean become an eagle eye sharpshooter getting GUD starts with knowing your target's and what works against them.Getting GUD means know how to build a mech to suit a desired role.

Arctic Cheetahs are a common sight these days with those machine gun arms.They almost always pack an ECM so locking is complicated. You will need an active probe to counter the ECM and retain streak locks on ECM equiped mechs. A TAG also reduces the lock time and counters ECM jamming. Both an Active Probe and a TAG should be more than enough to cut through any ECM.

A decent light hunter platform would be a Stormcrow D with a prime head and a B right arm omnipods Load up a TAG in the head slot add an active probe and then 4 SSRM6s w/5 tons ammo and 4 ER Sml lasers on the RA +2 DHS and off to the races.

This mech however has a big issue with taking on high weight mechs ( 50+ tons) that are well armored. So if it's 45 tons or lower you pose a significant threat 50+ tons they will likely have more precision firepower than you so do not solo engage unless they are already in bad shape.

Tactics.. early game you should be patroling the flanks and rear sort of swinging a U pattern along your team's rear if a light harasser shows it will be somewhere in this region most of the time. If you have a particularly slow and isolated mech on your team watch them from a distance (close enough to get there quickly but not so close as to be noticed watching)

Mid game you want to move into formation with the bulk of your team and pick off any remaining lights as they try to harass or deploy UAVs. still keep an eye on the rear and flanks but an attack can come from anyhwere mid game since anyone can have gotten any place on the map by then.

End game is when you are fairly safe to freely engage any target. Even the big mechs will have significant damage and streaks can kill quickly. But,still be mindful that most direct fire builds are far more accurate at placing damage and much more heat efficient when doing so. Still avoid being the solo mech to engage larger foes.

[Y E O N N E]

ZacharyJ, on 04 September 2017 - 11:28 AM, said:

Millennials killed the mid to long range mech design.

Dafuq...

[Deathlike]

The natural counter to long range mechs is being able to actually get into short range. Short range should always out-DPS everything that is long range.

Any time you position yourself in a poor firing arc between your teammates, short range becomes a lot easier to accomplish. It doesn't matter whether you are a Light or a fast Assault.

In essence, this is a learn to play moment. Pilot error tends to be the fatal one.

[Angel of Annihilation]

The OP actually has a point but only just barely. Honestly there is nothing I want to see less on the other team than 3-4 light mechs because if they work together, they are going to tear you apart. In fact Light mechs are the most OP mechs in the game when used correctly in a Wolf-pack to harass and disorientate the enemy. Individually though, well that is a different story.

[Asym]

Lykaon, on 04 September 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

No hate but...

get GUD!

Part of your issue maybe you are expecting better results from a loadout that isn't capable of producing the results you want.

You may be under estimating the actual armor values on light mechs and not putting enough UMPH on your anti light mech loadouts.

For example" a Myst Lynx has over 200 armor in total that's over 1 full ton of SSRM ammo to scrub all the armor off a 25 ton mech.

So 2 streak 4s and four medium lasers isn't all that much firepower but...a Streak-Dog with SIX SSRM6s and some small pulse lasers utterly erases a light mech in seconds.

get GUD doesn't just mean become an eagle eye sharpshooter getting GUD starts with knowing your target's and what works against them.Getting GUD means know how to build a mech to suit a desired role.

Arctic Cheetahs are a common sight these days with those machine gun arms.They almost always pack an ECM so locking is complicated. You will need an active probe to counter the ECM and retain streak locks on ECM equiped mechs. A TAG also reduces the lock time and counters ECM jamming. Both an Active Probe and a TAG should be more than enough to cut through any ECM.

A decent light hunter platform would be a Stormcrow D with a prime head and a B right arm omnipods Load up a TAG in the head slot add an active probe and then 4 SSRM6s w/5 tons ammo and 4 ER Sml lasers on the RA +2 DHS and off to the races.

This mech however has a big issue with taking on high weight mechs ( 50+ tons) that are well armored. So if it's 45 tons or lower you pose a significant threat 50+ tons they will likely have more precision firepower than you so do not solo engage unless they are already in bad shape.

Tactics.. early game you should be patroling the flanks and rear sort of swinging a U pattern along your team's rear if a light harasser shows it will be somewhere in this region most of the time. If you have a particularly slow and isolated mech on your team watch them from a distance (close enough to get there quickly but not so close as to be noticed watching)

Mid game you want to move into formation with the bulk of your team and pick off any remaining lights as they try to harass or deploy UAVs. still keep an eye on the rear and flanks but an attack can come from anyhwere mid game since anyone can have gotten any place on the map by then.

End game is when you are fairly safe to freely engage any target. Even the big mechs will have significant damage and streaks can kill quickly. But,still be mindful that most direct fire builds are far more accurate at placing damage and much more heat efficient when doing so. Still avoid being the solo mech to engage larger foes.

Appreciate the advice ! The whole point is that MWO is radically out-of-balance at the moment. It's not just me either....

Yes, I seriously went after "what works" and what is feasible.... But, at this point, I'm "just playing" now and don't really see a future beyond spending a little time with tinkering.....

[MadRover]

Asym, on 04 September 2017 - 06:42 PM, said:

Appreciate the advice ! The whole point is that MWO is radically out-of-balance at the moment. It's not just me either....

Yes, I seriously went after "what works" and what is feasible.... But, at this point, I'm "just playing" now and don't really see a future beyond spending a little time with tinkering.....

Blame the ones who keep saying something needs a nerf and PGI goes on a nerf rampage. They need to get a grip and stop nerfing because they can and get a back bone.

[Christophe Ivanov]

ApolloKaras, on 03 September 2017 - 10:32 AM, said:

This x1000.


I got out of a drop earlier today in a locust. I found an Annihilator completely by himself with no support. His first mistake that he thought it would be okay to put something like a Standard 265 in his mech. There would have been no way for him to keep up....

I just mastered my first Anni (-A1) and can tell you the very first thing I did was maxed out the engine to 48.6 KPH. PGI should have made this mech at the MINIMUM of 48.6 KPH. A total waste releasing this as 32 some odd KPH!
Once I got past that, it's a decent mech, but does have a learning curve to get used too.
As for Medium and Long range issues, as explained already, your in a SLOW mech, you need to stay with the group the best you can and support that group and the match's objective.

When you are involved with a light attacking you, make dam sure you back up into something to defend your butt. That way, you can have a better chance to deal with the pesky light mech before help arrives...if any comes..you DID call for help right?

Personally, I have more problems with Long and Medium range missiles than anything else. But that's another story!

Good luck

[Lucifaust]

Rifleman89, on 03 September 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

If you try to play a mid range medium mech, or heaven forbid, a mid range support heavy mech, you're wasting your time. Your hardpoints cannot compete with the lights. They will find you and kill you quickly. WTFG PGI. Even if you stay in the back of your firing line, the ECM light will come tear you apart and be able to run away without repercussion. Don't even dream of getting on a flank, now you die without any chance of survival........ WTFG PGI!! All you'll have soon is Assault LRM boats and lights, unless you fix this mess.....
Rant mode: OFF.

lol...

Aside from the I just died in a match so nerf _____ rant, I'd just like to point out that light hitboxes are way too small. They are so hard to hit it's ridiculous. I don't even bother trying to shoot at them in a match because even a direct alpha with full contact doesn't seem to do sh!t unless I am literally 5 feet away and they are standing still.

[Deathlike]

Lucifaust, on 04 September 2017 - 07:37 PM, said:

lol...

Aside from the I just died in a match so nerf _____ rant, I'd just like to point out that light hitboxes are way too small. They are so hard to hit it's ridiculous. I don't even bother trying to shoot at them in a match because even a direct alpha with full contact doesn't seem to do sh!t unless I am literally 5 feet away and they are standing still.

Wait wait wait.

The hitboxes are too small? Do you even Zoom? Did you miss the Light upscaling?

If aiming at Lights is that hard (especially with the "skill" weapon known as Streaks), then wow.

[Lucifaust]

Deathlike, on 04 September 2017 - 07:48 PM, said:

Wait wait wait.

The hitboxes are too small? Do you even Zoom? Did you miss the Light upscaling?

If aiming at Lights is that hard (especially with the "skill" weapon known as Streaks), then wow.

Hey man, you and those other guys must play lights. You feel threatened by me pointing out that your hitboxes are too small?

Don't worry, PGI doesn't care about what we have to say. Whether or not they buff or nerf or fix is totally out of our hands

[Weeny Machine]

Rifleman89, on 03 September 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

If you try to play a mid range medium mech, or heaven forbid, a mid range support heavy mech, you're wasting your time. Your hardpoints cannot compete with the lights. They will find you and kill you quickly. WTFG PGI. Even if you stay in the back of your firing line, the ECM light will come tear you apart and be able to run away without repercussion. Don't even dream of getting on a flank, now you die without any chance of survival........ WTFG PGI!! All you'll have soon is Assault LRM boats and lights, unless you fix this mess.....
Rant mode: OFF.

Yeah, those 0-2 lights per team in each match totally wreck face. Also, it is widely known that the more powerful and easier something is in online gaming, the less it is used by players. The shortest queue, often by a good margin, is the light queue.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 05 September 2017 - 02:49 AM.

[Lykaon]

Lucifaust, on 05 September 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:

Hey man, you and those other guys must play lights. You feel threatened by me pointing out that your hitboxes are too small?

Don't worry, PGI doesn't care about what we have to say. Whether or not they buff or nerf or fix is totally out of our hands

I do frequently play light mechs and believe it or not it ain't easy. one mistake kills!

Small and fast is what makes the light mechs viable.Look at it like this...

A larger mech is much easier to hit because it's larger and slower. To compensate the larger mechs have more armor and structure allowing for more hits to be taken.

A 25 ton mech has 16 armor and 8 internal structure (pre skilled or quirked)
A 75 ton mech has 48 armor and 24 internal structure (pre skilled or quirked)

Now in addition to simply having more armor there is the added effect of higher offensive output by having larger weapon payloads with more heatsinks to remain in an offensive posture longer.

In order for a light mech to destroy a larger opponent the time on target spend engaging per point of damage is significantly higher for the light mechs than the larger counterparts.

This means a light mech is exposed to return fire for long periods of time to deal the same damage a heavy mech does in one trigger pull.

So, quit complaining about what amounts to having terrible aim.

[Asym]

Lykaon, on 05 September 2017 - 04:19 AM, said:

I do frequently play light mechs and believe it or not it ain't easy. one mistake kills!

Small and fast is what makes the light mechs viable.Look at it like this...

A larger mech is much easier to hit because it's larger and slower. To compensate the larger mechs have more armor and structure allowing for more hits to be taken.

A 25 ton mech has 16 armor and 8 internal structure (pre skilled or quirked)
A 75 ton mech has 48 armor and 24 internal structure (pre skilled or quirked)

Now in addition to simply having more armor there is the added effect of higher offensive output by having larger weapon payloads with more heatsinks to remain in an offensive posture longer.

In order for a light mech to destroy a larger opponent the time on target spend engaging per point of damage is significantly higher for the light mechs than the larger counterparts.

This means a light mech is exposed to return fire for long periods of time to deal the same damage a heavy mech does in one trigger pull.

So, quit complaining about what amounts to having terrible aim.

Good try but, no I don't agree....

This is about aim, armor, hit boxes, damage calculations and all of the balancing nerfs..... Several above are correct in their assumptions: something is greatly out of balance with lights. I coined a phrase a few weeks back: Mini-Assaults.... Seriously, many of us in 50+ ton vehicles have gone "out of our way" to kill lights.... The game play damage calcualtions and physics just aren't there and lights are doing things way out of their physcial capabilities.... Look at the Machine Gun crit discussions........ Geeze.

Statistics mean little in the face of demonstrated expereinces and gameplay. Yes, I have tail chased an Urban mech with a fully armed Stormcrow kitted out for anti-light operations... I simply could not kill it....period... It took several players to kill one Urban mech and I wish I could have captured the "damage assessment" the player sees when the mech dies... In this case, Streak 6's, LRM's, All sorts of lasers, a Gauss rifle and an LBX-20 that finally killed it as the Urban charged the Assualt with ONLY Orange damage.... My heavies only last <1 minutes with lights and machine guns and an Urban lasted almost 7 minutes of gameplay with 5 mechs trying to kill it..... Something beyond Aim is off here.....

Just my opinion.

[Weeny Machine]

Asym, on 05 September 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

Good try but, no I don't agree....

This is about aim, armor, hit boxes, damage calculations and all of the balancing nerfs..... Several above are correct in their assumptions: something is greatly out of balance with lights. I coined a phrase a few weeks back: Mini-Assaults.... Seriously, many of us in 50+ ton vehicles have gone "out of our way" to kill lights.... The game play damage calcualtions and physics just aren't there and lights are doing things way out of their physcial capabilities.... Look at the Machine Gun crit discussions........ Geeze.

Statistics mean little in the face of demonstrated expereinces and gameplay. Yes, I have tail chased an Urban mech with a fully armed Stormcrow kitted out for anti-light operations... I simply could not kill it....period... It took several players to kill one Urban mech and I wish I could have captured the "damage assessment" the player sees when the mech dies... In this case, Streak 6's, LRM's, All sorts of lasers, a Gauss rifle and an LBX-20 that finally killed it as the Urban charged the Assualt with ONLY Orange damage.... My heavies only last <1 minutes with lights and machine guns and an Urban lasted almost 7 minutes of gameplay with 5 mechs trying to kill it..... Something beyond Aim is off here.....

Just my opinion.

What amuses me are people like you who do not even play lights (20 matches in Season 14. Really?), yet they KNOW that something is wrong.

I am sorry...start to play those mechs before you jump to any conclusion or even KNOW something

[Bigbacon]

Asym, on 05 September 2017 - 05:07 AM, said:

Good try but, no I don't agree....

This is about aim, armor, hit boxes, damage calculations and all of the balancing nerfs..... Several above are correct in their assumptions: something is greatly out of balance with lights. I coined a phrase a few weeks back: Mini-Assaults.... Seriously, many of us in 50+ ton vehicles have gone "out of our way" to kill lights.... The game play damage calcualtions and physics just aren't there and lights are doing things way out of their physcial capabilities.... Look at the Machine Gun crit discussions........ Geeze.

Statistics mean little in the face of demonstrated expereinces and gameplay. Yes, I have tail chased an Urban mech with a fully armed Stormcrow kitted out for anti-light operations... I simply could not kill it....period... It took several players to kill one Urban mech and I wish I could have captured the "damage assessment" the player sees when the mech dies... In this case, Streak 6's, LRM's, All sorts of lasers, a Gauss rifle and an LBX-20 that finally killed it as the Urban charged the Assualt with ONLY Orange damage.... My heavies only last <1 minutes with lights and machine guns and an Urban lasted almost 7 minutes of gameplay with 5 mechs trying to kill it..... Something beyond Aim is off here.....

Just my opinion.

some of this is because of ST and quirks giving mechs that shouldn't have tons of armor and internal structure that now have tons of extra armor and structure. Hell, sometimes the internal structure gets WAY out of hand because of ST and quirks not just on lights but everything.

You are also describing the "never works for me" syndrome. Where you get melted by a few SRMs or something yet your 72 point ATM launch slams into a mech and seemingly does nothing.

Missiles that track have a really hard time hitting fast moving lights although SSRMs seem to do best. LRM and ATM lots of times just follow and start impacting the ground behind them as the scoot along. Lasers you are swinging around all over the place trying to hit them so you aren't doing a lot of damage and then even if they mech is standing still you end up with the above issues.

Luckily... lights are rarely played it seems and unless you are REALLY good you usually don't last long. I play lots of lights and I most certainly can't take on mechs by myself.....because of the "never works for me" issue. I'll get instantly melted no matter what I'm doing to evade...

[Bigbacon]

Also...I think the mid/long range is alive and well....Short range only builds (say 300m +/-) can suffer GREATLY because everyone else can start chipping away while you try to get in range to fight back. Hell a locust 1V could sit with an ERLL at 800m and just poke endlessly at you.

Now that IS has ERMLs there is little excuse to be worried about range metas. having range to play would always be more beneficial in my eye than not because you always have that option to get further away. you see both in FR and QP is always all over the place.

And to complain about losing long and medium range to the meta is... kinda your own fault in a way if you aren't playing to strengths......always I absolutely loath meta play....and it sucks when you get grouped mostly with players that only play the meta game.

[Deathlike]

Lucifaust, on 05 September 2017 - 02:21 AM, said:

Hey man, you and those other guys must play lights. You feel threatened by me pointing out that your hitboxes are too small?

Don't worry, PGI doesn't care about what we have to say. Whether or not they buff or nerf or fix is totally out of our hands

So, you're saying you can't aim at some Lights mechs that have a profile of a medium?

Well then, PGI found their audience.