254 replies to this topic

[rageagainstthedyingofthelight]

What a giant pile of suck this change is. Utter crap. Doesn't fix anything, and adds more inconvenience for making the mistake of hitting T1.

[Trissila]

Longer queues... and for the wrong sort of benefit, in my opinion.

Yeah, low-grade potatoes won't get mashed as hard. But they'll also have less incentive to improve their play, which will make for an even ruder awakening when they eventually tier-up -- as everyone will, given how biased PSR is towards gain rather than loss.

Having to roll with higher-skilled pilots will quickly teach you -- assuming you are capable of learning -- the basic fundaments of good MWO play, if for no other reason than self-preservation. Eventually you get tired of getting focused and cored moments after you bravely charge out in the open, so you start using cover and instinctively seeking good trades, not because it's a meta strategy you read up on, but because that's the tactic that works for staying alive and getting things done. You gradually gravitate away from hardcore LRM boats with no effective close-range defense because you get tired of enemy mechs rushing you and murdering you inside of your deadzone. So on and so forth... eventually you become a better player.

Being shielded from effective play damages that progression, honestly.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Kabum, on 07 September 2017 - 12:41 PM, said:

I think it higher up the waiting match time to the point that makes the game not enjoyable for me. I saw myself going more to others games.
In my opinion is a bad move since it highs up the waiting time too much.

Yeah this is my concern. I am Tier 1 which means I am only going to see Tier 1 and 2 now which effectively cut out about 33% of the people I was being match with before. Already my que up times were getting a bit on the long side with sometimes several minute waits. What am I going to have to deal with now, 3-5 minute Ques? Sorry not happening. If I have to wait that long yeah I am going to be out. Hell with a several minute wait time I already felt they should loosen up the restrictions because waiting as getting annoying. I work, sometimes with quite a bit of OT which is what enables me to buy most mech packs. I don't have an extra 30 mins to waste on que waiting whenever I have a few hours to play.

[TWIAFU]

Nema Nabojiv, on 07 September 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

that may explain why yesterday's evening I had a streak of horrible games. Cant you thryhards just go and play something else? >_<

So, T1 and T2 are tryhards now?

[Stitchedup]

Wait times can now be horrendous and have been terrible of late. The fact you can't comment on the main thread is telling. Is it really that bad that we have to sacrifice playtime in an already small player base so some potatoes can be stomped by lower teir potatoes

[Tiewolf]

I am T1 like everybody that plays the game long enough. But often I enjoy playing builds or mechs that are by far suboptimal so my loadout is sometimes not even worth T5. Is there a place in this game for ppl like me who enjoy the game but have kids, a job, not the time and the drive to be 24/7 a top preformer?

In T1 you have a cap above. So all the tryhards, veterans that play the game for ages and ppl that played just enough to get up to T1+T2 are all in 1 bucket without any regards to their loadout, Mechs or Elo. No real chance to get down to T5 again with the only option to drop out of the game when you get rolled and rolled again by the tryhards cause you want to enjoy the game in a casual way? No lessons learned from 12v12 queue or FW PGI?

The real problem is, that the tryhards, whatever they tell you, want seals to club and don`t want a tryhard queue. If a tryhard queue would exist with the "challenging games" that all the T1 games only complainers on the form want, it would be a ghost town in no time. Exept for the few ppl that dominate this queue, which will wait forever in the queue for opponents till they quit the game after waiting forever. Everybody would queue up in the casual queue to club casual players, if there would be a chance to choose.

Wrong way PGI and plz stop listening to the ppl that told you to take this road. If you want to have a good Matchmaker match players to their Battlevalue (mech+loadout+elo of the player) or someting like this but not by a forced Tier. It will never be perfect but better then this solution.

Edited by Tiewolf, 07 September 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[mistlynx4life]

It'd be interesting to see what would happen if once a pilot achieved a Tier, s/he could choose to reside in one of those Tiers for a set amount of time like a contract.

For instance: T5 players don't have a choice but when they reach T4 they can then choose to remain in T5 bracket for a month. At the month's end, they have to choose a new Tier - in this case, 4. PSRs can still proceed as normal for whatever other purpose they serve but this way it means folks can sort themselves out on a casual/competitive spectrum (and competitive is definitely the name of the game now). Just a thought.

[LordNothing]

looks like i get to say bye to t1, after 3 months of terrible losses anyway. il be in fp.

[Exilyth]

Can't say if mm has improved, haven't got enough matches yet.

If you queue up for 60 matches and each match takes 1 minute to find a matchup, that's one hour of wasted time.
If match quality really improved, that might be worth the wait.

[Pope RW]

I think as my wait times increase my desire to play decreases.

[Lorginir]

So thats why matches take forever to find and teammates are deathly afraid of pushing. Explains a lot.

[Cpt Contego]

Tiewolf, on 07 September 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

If you want to have a good Matchmaker match players to their Battlevalue (mech+loadout+elo of the player) or someting like this but not by a forced Tier. It will never be perfect but better then this solution.

This, I completely agree, the current tier system is rubbish, it in no way reflects a players skill level. I've seen players in T1 that definitely don't belong there. Hell, one of my friends who plays is in T1 and even he says he doesn't belong there.

They should base it off something like the above quote or to keep it even simpler, base it off your average match score and slowly implement values for mechs, weapons, etc.

Until this happens, there will be no such thing as a balanced MM, even T5 isn't safe as many veterans create new alt accounts, and guess what tier they get to start in...

[Davegt27]

I tried telling you kids don't complain you will only make matters worse

[Nema Nabojiv]

Sooo, first people complain that MM is rigged and they getting rekt by tier ones and they dont wanna play anymore.
Now they complain that wait time increased and they dont wanna play anymore because of that.

Ironic.

[C E Dwyer]

About damn time this happened

[Tiewolf]

Trissila, on 07 September 2017 - 01:38 PM, said:

Longer queues... and for the wrong sort of benefit, in my opinion.

Yeah, low-grade potatoes won't get mashed as hard. But they'll also have less incentive to improve their play, which will make for an even ruder awakening when they eventually tier-up -- as everyone will, given how biased PSR is towards gain rather than loss.

Having to roll with higher-skilled pilots will quickly teach you -- assuming you are capable of learning -- the basic fundaments of good MWO play, if for no other reason than self-preservation. Eventually you get tired of getting focused and cored moments after you bravely charge out in the open, so you start using cover and instinctively seeking good trades, not because it's a meta strategy you read up on, but because that's the tactic that works for staying alive and getting things done. You gradually gravitate away from hardcore LRM boats with no effective close-range defense because you get tired of enemy mechs rushing you and murdering you inside of your deadzone. So on and so forth... eventually you become a better player.

Being shielded from effective play damages that progression, honestly.

I am sorry but that is not happening here in MWo. The only thing that you try to justify with "learning" is the enjoyment to club inexerienced players. They learn nothing cause nobody tells em why they died or what they can do better. And even if they knew it, it takes a lot of practice time, map knowledge, strategy, communication, the right equipment (like a mouse with more then 2 buttons or a mic), A GOOD PING and so on to pull it off.
Did you ever consider the fact that if no one would use cover, focus targets, seek good trades etc. nobody would have a problem or have to "learn" something?
The fact that veteran players found tactics to dominate others and force everybody to adopt those tactics or have a bad experience doesn`t make anything right or makes you a better player. if everybody would adopt the tryhards tactics they would create new tactics or use equipment the others can`t affort till they dominate again. I short it will never gona happen that the majority of players catch up so plz stop preaching this you only have to learn bull**** on the forum cause its a dynamic process where you can`t catch up by learning cause the dominators don`t want other ppl on an equal footing .

Edited by Tiewolf, 07 September 2017 - 02:44 PM.

[Pjwned]

Sounds like a potential improvement I suppose, but doesn't really matter much as long as PSR calculation is still bad.

Tiewolf, on 07 September 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

If you want to have a good Matchmaker match players to their Battlevalue (mech+loadout+elo of the player) or someting like this but not by a forced Tier. It will never be perfect but better then this solution.

That will never ever work, thinking otherwise is delusional.

[suffocater]

Well, I chose a light mech because they had the lowest population. For this evening I can say that I never had to wait long for a match and the matches felt mostly really great.

Surely not the perfect solution, but I like it for the moment.

[Vincent DIFrancesco]

Honestly, I think the cordoning off of tiers in any way isn't good for MWO. And for several of the reasons stated here. It radically increases wait times. It doesn't allow for mech/loadout experimentation. It entices seal-clubbers to make alts so they can face nothing but seals. And newer players get far less exposure to more experienced tactics.

My suggestion would be to seed players by tier in the same way that is done for chassis weights: a smattering of tiers across the team. Have a few people of each tier on the team. Newer players get exposed to veterans without being complete victims. Veterans are under less pressure to min/max, allowing them to try different things. And with all tiers in the pot, it should help alleviate some of the restrictions on match maker to do its job.

But hey, it's just an idea.

[kuma8877]

Tiewolf, on 07 September 2017 - 02:27 PM, said:

I am sorry but that is not happening here in MWo. The only thing that you try to justify with "learning" is the enjoyment to club inexerienced players. They learn nothing cause nobody tells em why they died or what they can do better. And even if they knew it, it takes a lot of practice time, map knowledge, strategy, communication, the right equipment (like a mouse with more then 2 buttons or a mic) and so on to pull it off.
Did you ever consider the fact that if no one would use cover, focus targets, seek good trades etc. nobody would have a problem or have to "learn" something?
The fact that veteran players found tactics to dominate others and force everybody to adopt those tactics or have a bad experience doesn`t make anything right or makes you a better player. if everybody would adopt the tryhards tactics they would create new tactics or use equipment the others can`t affort till they dominate again. I short it will never gona happen that the majority of players catch up so plz stop preaching this you only have to learn bull**** on the forum cause its a dynamic process where you can`t catch up by learning cause the dominators don`t want other ppl on an equal footing .

Are you saying that basic combat maneuvering, using cover, playing to the strengths of the topography of a map, and trying to gain an advantage to win the match are bad things? Of course the use of tactics in combat type scenarios are designed to dominate the enemy....1000's of years of warfare have taught these lessons. If a player has ANY experience at PVP/combat based video games, this stuff SHOULD all be common sense.

Every time I've heard a newer player ask legitimate questions about how the systems, loadouts and game in general work, I've ALWAYS seen them get a response (or given one myself if I knew the answer) with usually good info and some opinions and pointers. Problem is, many don't ask. Who's fault is that?

And also going to point out, that when one is trying to learn something or get better at something, they don't go to those of lesser knowledge to teach/show them new things, they go to those who demonstrate knowledge and ability in the subject they want to learn that surpasses their own. The New Player Help forum is a great resource. As is Youtube and spectating other good players after your death. I think we often end up with players that don't actually want to learn to play (tho they want to be good)and they demonstrate that by not taking advantage of what basic resources are available in the vast majority of gaming communities today.