42 replies to this topic

[Mole]

LFE made a lot of old and obsolete IS 'mechs at least slightly relevant again. My Dragon has been brought back to life thanks to RACs and the LFE, my Catapult has been rocking MRMs and a LFE pretty good, my Hunchback got some extra survivability due to the extended range of ERMLs instead of the regular MLs it used to run with. Same thing with the Jenner. My Atlas saw its AC/20 upgraded to a UAC/20 with a LFE. These are just a few examples, the list goes on. LFE, ER Lasers, and full range of UACs were real gamechangers for IS machines in my experience.

Edited by Mole, 22 September 2017 - 09:50 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

jss78, on 22 September 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

I'm very fond of the Yen-Lo with LFE-265, UAC/20, 2xERML.It's a nice example of an old-school 'mech really taking the new tech well. Build.

Haven't run the ballistic Hunchies much recently, but I find the classic 2xLRM10 Hunchie-J struggling with the current AMS.

tried teh UAC20 on my 4G and YLW and went back to standard, TBH. The bonus I had with YLW before was short MPL duration and PPFLD snapshots with the AC20 to allow me to instantly twist again. UACs remove that to a degree I just don't personally care for.

End of the day I can build a much more effective "YLW" with that style loadout using a StormCrow.

[Stf Sgt Marblez]

Last years loyalty/annual phract collected dust until they came out with the new tech, Lfe 310, 2 snubs, and a uac 10 is what ive been knocking the dust off with, and I'm digging the ever loving crap outta it.

Edited for what was apparently foul language.

Edited by Stf Sgt Marblez, 22 September 2017 - 12:01 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Consider that they actually nerfed a Dragon for being too OP with lasers last patch.

Older chassis don't tend to shine, but they're still perfectly capable even if not cutting-edge.

[davoodoo]

hbk4g is very good uac20 platform, 4p shoulder scatter cannon now got double range.
catapult is one of the best lurmboats while also having ability to run dual mrm40 for some nice stat padding.
centurion meh, but then i never liked it.

Edited by davoodoo, 22 September 2017 - 01:51 PM.

[Roadbuster]

Honestly?

I still pilot all the "old" mechs up and down.
Cent, Hunchback, Atlas, Catapult, Cataphract, Cicada, Highlander, Shadow Hawk, Orion, Dragon, Jagermech, Awesome, Victor, Zeus,... love them all.
And they ARE viable. Some require better positioning and many of them are not "walk in and vomit till you kill something" mechs. Too bad MWO is turning into a alpha strike twitch shooter more and more.

I hate "Meta". I feel sorry for players who just copy a build and think they are good now.
And comp play is the most boring experience I had so far. Nothing but vomit with a limited selection of mechs. The only positive thing about comp play are tactics, but the need to use a specific mech and loadout, just kills the thing for me.

[Khobai]

its not conducive to selling new mech packs if old mechs are kept viable.

Quote

Consider that they actually nerfed a Dragon for being too OP with lasers last patch.

Older chassis don't tend to shine, but they're still perfectly capable even if not cutting-edge.

like i said.

dragon was nerfed because old mechs cant be good or it hurts mech pack sales. seriously they nerfed the dragon. the reason behind it is obviously suspect because its the DRAGON. Why would you nerf the dragon?

think about it... why would anyone buy a new mech thats the same as an old mech they already own? but if PGI nerfs all the old mechs and makes the new mechs look comparatively much better, theres a reason for people to keep buying mech packs.

theyve done this dozens of times... nerfed mechs once they went to cbills to make room for new mechpacks. they did it with the clan assaults... daishi, then the kodiak, then the nightgyr/marauder IIC, then the supernova, and next up for the nerf bat is the madcat II once it goes to cbills and the new blood asp mech pack is slated for delivery.

its all one huge mech pack conspiracy. open your eyes people. thrust off your neurohelmets that shackle you to PGI's will and put on your tin foil hats to block the satellite mind control.

#classicmechlivesmatter

Edited by Khobai, 23 September 2017 - 04:52 AM.

[Johnny Z]

jss78, on 22 September 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

I'm very fond of the Yen-Lo with LFE-265, UAC/20, 2xERML.It's a nice example of an old-school 'mech really taking the new tech well. Build.

Haven't run the ballistic Hunchies much recently, but I find the classic 2xLRM10 Hunchie-J struggling with the current AMS.

The LFE really helped the medium mechs.

[Jackal Noble]

Johnny Z, on 23 September 2017 - 05:54 AM, said:

The LFE really helped the medium mechs.

Not my PHXes tho, still run XLs on em. just as wel tho

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

KuroNyra, on 21 September 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

My question is about the old ones. Hunchback, Centurion, Catapult.

Are theses guys even usefull now?


HBK 4G: Still a classic brawler, 3 mlas 1ac20 or UAC20 [or even LBx20] is still a solid, close range brawler that can pump out some great damage.

HBK 4P: Not really seen often, oddly enough, especially given the mech is a solid energy boat, and in the current energy dominated meta, you'd expect to see more of them. Still, it IS a solid medium laser boat, and can mount the full range of energy weaponry, This allows it to be fairly versitile.

HBK 4SP: There are better SRM bombers in the IS medium category, that being said, it's still a decent medium brawler in it's own right [as are all the HBK variants.]

CN9-A: This thing is classic, and has only gotten stronger with the introduction of RAC's, and MRM's, however it's still a jack of all trades mech, which means it doesn't excel in any one role, but can be configured for a multitude of roles. Still in my opinion one of the best starting mechs, as it has hardpoints for all weapon types, and with it's shield arm, teaches how to twist to absorb damage.

CN9-AL: Energy focused variant of the CN9 chassis, again, a jack of all trades, but able to specialize more with the new weaponry and engine options, it's still in a better place now than it was. And it's humanoid design allows for a slimmer profile.

Yen Lo: Outshined in most situations, can be decent with the new LB20 and UAC20 in place of the standard, and the cbill earnings are still nice.

CPLT:C1 has always been sadly average... you can now extend the range of the medium lasers by adding ER's, LFE is nice for it, but it's still an LRM boat, without proper setup, it's still not going to be amazing, but fill's it's role as an LRM 15/LRM20 boat decently.

CPLT: K, still a decent Gauss/LL boat, but outshined by the WHM chassis for this role. can still do decent direct fire support however... don't count it out.

SplatCat: It's a splat cat, now with MRM's.

[KuroNyra]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 23 September 2017 - 09:11 AM, said:

KuroNyra, on 21 September 2017 - 04:35 PM, said:

My question is about the old ones. Hunchback, Centurion, Catapult.

Are theses guys even usefull now?


HBK 4G: Still a classic brawler, 3 mlas 1ac20 or UAC20 [or even LBx20] is still a solid, close range brawler that can pump out some great damage.

HBK 4P: Not really seen often, oddly enough, especially given the mech is a solid energy boat, and in the current energy dominated meta, you'd expect to see more of them. Still, it IS a solid medium laser boat, and can mount the full range of energy weaponry, This allows it to be fairly versitile.

HBK 4SP: There are better SRM bombers in the IS medium category, that being said, it's still a decent medium brawler in it's own right [as are all the HBK variants.]

CN9-A: This thing is classic, and has only gotten stronger with the introduction of RAC's, and MRM's, however it's still a jack of all trades mech, which means it doesn't excel in any one role, but can be configured for a multitude of roles. Still in my opinion one of the best starting mechs, as it has hardpoints for all weapon types, and with it's shield arm, teaches how to twist to absorb damage.

CN9-AL: Energy focused variant of the CN9 chassis, again, a jack of all trades, but able to specialize more with the new weaponry and engine options, it's still in a better place now than it was. And it's humanoid design allows for a slimmer profile.

Yen Lo: Outshined in most situations, can be decent with the new LB20 and UAC20 in place of the standard, and the cbill earnings are still nice.

CPLT:C1 has always been sadly average... you can now extend the range of the medium lasers by adding ER's, LFE is nice for it, but it's still an LRM boat, without proper setup, it's still not going to be amazing, but fill's it's role as an LRM 15/LRM20 boat decently.

CPLT: K, still a decent Gauss/LL boat, but outshined by the WHM chassis for this role. can still do decent direct fire support however... don't count it out.

SplatCat: It's a splat cat, now with MRM's.

I see.

Thanks!


also Brohoof |]

[JediPanther]

I also rolled out the hbk missile last night. HBK-4J Classic v2

Had an entire lance of hbks and we rolled the enemy:

[panzer1b]

KuroNyra, on 21 September 2017 - 03:35 PM, said:

Hunchback, Centurion, Catapult.

Not as much as before, not potato tier or anything, nor are they dead, but they have really seen better days.

The hunchback is not a terrible mech, but the combination of high alfa strikes and outdated hitboxes, make it sorta die really fast. Thing is, 90% of semi decent players will focus your hunch, and because of its unique geometry, even when fully shielded a small bit of the hunch can be hit. Then once you loose your RT, you are worthless for the most part (i think you are left with like 2 MLs or so at best). That and the entire concept of assymetric shielding doesnt really work anymore, since agility is, overall, lower then before, and you cant just twist the damage away like it was nothing.

The cent suffers from a lack of hardpoints, and has been all but obsoleted by mechs that have more focused hardpoint layout (ballistic, energy, and missile on a single mech doesnt really work as well as it used to). That and all but the energy variant (which doesnt even have enuff hardpoints to truly boat energy wepons) cant even get any sort of alfa strike from energy (cause its a stupid dual CT mount). Its probably not the worst mech, but personally its one of very few mech i never actually enjoyed playing and have yet to find a build for it that i find fun and effective (the NCIX is trash, no loadout ive tried works well ).

The catapult is probably the least bad of the 3 nowadays, since it has 2 good variants (jester and K2). The K2 can do ballistics no worse then comparable 65t mechs, even if its hitboxes have seen better days, and the jester can do laser vomit which is still workable in todays age. Yes there are now better mechs at every role you can do with the catapult (and splat/LRM isnt really good with its useless missile boxes that get shot off before you even take ST/CT damage), but at least it CAN do some of the meta builds that other mechs are running.

That said, there are very very few mechs that havent been anywhere from partially to completely obsoleted by something else, and the few that havent, have some very unique trait that keeps them relevant in the game such as good hitboxes, hardpoint options/layout, ECM (the only reason the HBR is a thing), ect. Its understandable, and im pretty sure most MMOs have powercreep in some form or another. Im not too hopeful, but perhaps one day the devs will take a good look at the classis mechs (as well as the good number of really lousy variants of some subpar mechs they released) are buff them properly to complete with new shiny things.

[Lightfoot]

I always pilot what I want. You make it work. Centurion is good. Orion and Awesome make good use of 3061 tech. All any mech does is give you an edge. It's pretty small edge so the mech doesn't matter that much, it's what you do with it.

[Sjorpha]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 September 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

tried teh UAC20 on my 4G and YLW and went back to standard, TBH. The bonus I had with YLW before was short MPL duration and PPFLD snapshots with the AC20 to allow me to instantly twist again. UACs remove that to a degree I just don't personally care for.

End of the day I can build a much more effective "YLW" with that style loadout using a StormCrow.

I like putting a snubnose ppc in there like this, 30 point snapshots.

[Bishop Steiner]

Sjorpha, on 23 September 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

I like putting a snubnose ppc in there like this, 30 point snapshots.

Huh. Hadn't really looked into it yet... that's about a ton less ammo than I am comfortable with though.

[Lightfoot]

Yen Lo Wang

More Zombie friendly.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Shifty McSwift, on 21 September 2017 - 07:22 PM, said:

Well, you can make almost anything work in some cases in QP, with its madhouse nature, so gauging things by a few good games in QP isn't the best way of testing their "real viability".

I don't think comp play tests their "real viability" either. The value of any give mech or build changes depending on the game mode. Comp play has very different requirements QP or FW so mech and build that work well there might not work so well in other modes and I think way too many people either forget or don't recognize this.

I mean for myself, I don't do comp play but do partake in both QP and FW and I have a ton of mechs that that do phenomenally is QP that fair poorly in FW, in fact it was shocking to me how big a difference there was. For FW and its more sustained combat, I generally found I needed mechs that ran cooler and had more staying power than I was required in your normal QP so what was extremely viable in QP didn't perform well in FW. Same situation is going to exist with comp play. Different requirements require different mechs.

Seriously, consider this. What if they had some sort of Ironman campaign mode where you had to do multiple battles in the same mech with no reloading of ammo. In a mode like that any sort of ammo dependent build would be right out and all of a sudden the meta changes to lasers. What if there was a game mode that only took place on Terra Terma? Yep, lasers vomit would disappear. Point is you can't go by Comp Play to determine anything because all it will tell you is what mechs and builds are viable in Comp Play. Therefore you can absolute use game in QP play to determine their viability as long as your only trying to determine their viability in QP.

[Sjorpha]

Bishop Steiner, on 23 September 2017 - 12:36 PM, said:

Huh. Hadn't really looked into it yet... that's about a ton less ammo than I am comfortable with though.

27 shots with the ammo nodes, yeah it's a bit on the minimalistic side for 12v12 but IMO that's how YLW should be played. Fast and surgical. If every shot lands and is coupled with the snub nose that's potentially 810 damage before falling back on only using the PPC, assume a hit percentage of 75% and you should be above 600 before you're out of ammo.

In 8v8 I think some of those elegant but slightly ammo limited builds are going to be a lot better. The 6AC5 Annihilator for example.

I wish they'd just normalize all the ammo counts to match the damage potential of the current AC10 ammo, canon mechs never have the stupid boatloads of ammo we have to bring in MWO. The AC10 family is in a good spot IMO with 200 damage per ton before ammo nodes and it would help bringing ammo weapons closer in power to lasers. So AC20 should have 10 shots, AC5 40 shots and AC2 100 shots.

[Bombast]

Sjorpha, on 23 September 2017 - 04:18 PM, said:

In 8v8 I think some of those elegant but slightly ammo limited builds are going to be a lot better. The 6AC5 Annihilator for example.

Did you just use 'elegant' and 'Annihilator' in the same sentence?