193 replies to this topic

[Davegt27]

ok this game is as fun as standing in a fire ant mound

can we at least get our modules back

I don't care about the rule of three and all that jazz
lets just make Mech customization fun again

[Jun Watarase]

Huh? You lost me.

[El Bandito]

I'd rather do the skill tree than to juggle modules again. Good riddance to the old system. With only a few Heavies/Assaults even bothering with Seismic nodes, Lights are more potent than before, which is also a plus for the current system.

Edited by El Bandito, 23 September 2017 - 06:51 AM.

[Appogee]

I've clicked (conservative estimate) more than 18,000 of those bloody Skill Nodes by now.

How ridiculous that we still can't cut/paste existing trees onto new Mechs.

If anyone at PGI played their game and had to grind their own Mechs, they'd realise by now what a PITA it is.

[Bombast]

The Skill System may not be the greatest (Respeccing is ridiculous), but going back to modules is not the answer.

[dario03]

Bombast, on 23 September 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

The Skill System may not be the greatest (Respeccing is ridiculous), but going back to modules is not the answer.

The answer is
Letting us save and load skill tree loadouts (and while we're at it mech equipment loadouts too).
And letting us sell GSP for its cbill value or at least half. (full being 45,000 per iirc)

[Andi Nagasia]

personally i feel the New-Skill-Tree is better than the Old-Skill-Tree + Modules,
it gives more options for how you can build a mech and allows better variety,

that said, respecing costs though harsh for a full respec(you should never full respec)
i feel are actually in a good place, i dont see them as a peoblem, even for new players without much C-Bills,
(i know because my Nephew started playing and hes enjoying MWO and changes his CN9s skill way too often)


i keep hearing that respecs should be free, but i cant really think of a game that offers 100% free Respecs,
many if not mostly all games ive played you have to pay to respec, its just a facet of what makes choices hard,

[Felicitatem Parco]

Saving Mech Loadouts.

Saving Tree Configurations.

These should be in game, like saved faction play decks.

[Paigan]

Davegt27, on 23 September 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

ok this game is as fun as standing in a fire ant mound

can we at least get our modules back

I don't care about the rule of three and all that jazz
lets just make Mech customization fun again

How do you know that "we know" the system doesn't work?
It's rather that YOU are unhappy for some reason. Probably of your own fault of some sort (see below).
YOU is not "we". Go away.

Mech customization is much more fun now than before. Objectively and I'll explain why:
You can better and more fine-grained adjust the skills to the loadout and strategy you have.
For example:
I usually max out heat stuff because of laser vomit.
But with some builds, I make a mix of range as a priority and heat and cooldown as secondary.
Or I use ammo weapons (eewwww...) and therefore I go for the capacity bonus.

Granted, the skill tree could be a little bit more .. "efficient" (less nodes), plus a few tools to ease usage are missing (what properity park wrote above), but in principle, it is MUCH better than what we had before.

Anyone who opposes this (apart from the problems already mentions) has simply a problem of not wanting to change and not wanting to adapt.
Everything must be improved, but without being changed.
Nonsense. Adapt or die.

Edited by Paigan, 25 September 2017 - 12:18 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Yeah, the new system is much, MUCH better than the old.

1)Removal of the old convergence node, that did NOTHING since 2012.
2)More varried, granular decisions can be made in regards to how you want your mech to be upgraded.
3)You can't just snag the one module or so you absolutely want... this prevents wholesale min/maxing.

That's 3 positive points to the new skill system over the nodes+modules we had before.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

it's the skill tree web that sucks, a player should be able to choose more range over cooldown or vice versa if they choose instead of taking skills that block the skill you desire.

[ocular tb]

I'm actually fine with how it is now and don't miss the modules. I had a lot of modules before but still found myself needing to swap some from time to time and I think that was more of an annoyance than the current skill tree.

Some things could be done perhaps to improve upon the system further, but overall it's been a major improvement over the old system despite my skepticism of it at first. Mech customization is still largely the same as it was before- it just takes a little more thought when filling the skill trees, which is not a bad thing in my opinion. Too late to go back now anyway I'd say.

Edited by ocular tb, 23 September 2017 - 08:41 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Gorantir, on 23 September 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

it's the skill tree web that sucks, a player should be able to choose more range over cooldown or vice versa if they choose instead of taking skills that block the skill you desire.

Look at what you're saying here, carefully.

You're essentially, asking for a change to the web because "I don't want to be forced to take things I don't want."

Which translates into: "I want to min-max my mech easier without having to compromise."

This, is what's lead to inherent balancing issues to begin with.

[MechaBattler]

I would rather they consolidate the nodes. Cut the tree in half. We shouldn't be dealing with such small percentages. And lower the XP cost. I can usually get enough c-bills to get a point. But not so much XP.

[KodiakGW]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 23 September 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Look at what you're saying here, carefully.

You're essentially, asking for a change to the web because "I don't want to be forced to take things I don't want."

Which translates into: I want to min-max my mech easier without having to compromise;

This, is what's lead to inherent balancing issues to begin with.

Min-max with what? 1% Range nodes? .75% Cooldown nodes (which even if you unlock all you get 5% less than the old module system if you include Fast Fire)? Seriously, you guys have to stop with that BS. Stop the maze, stop the gating. You worried about min-max, then make the percentages lower and add more nodes. Done.

Stop making Bishop unlock Torso Yaw on his Urbanmechs to unlock other mobility.

Stop making lights unlock Advanced Gyros and more than one Speed Retention to get Cool Run and Heat Containment that is 5% less effective than under the old system when you unlock all.

Stop making Locust pilots take Hill Climb when they can climb the walls of Canyon without losing hardly any speed.

And I can go on for hours giving you other examples.

We lost over 3000 players August year over year. Considering that we got all this new tech recently, we should have seen many players come back, not a loss.

Fix the Skill Maze and I know 6 paying customers who will return.

That's right, six PAYING CUSTOMERS. PGI can look up what they spent from December 2016 until the Skill Maze drove them away. Easily near $1000 if you include the $210 worth of gift codes I gave them. There is a thread in the patch notes archives with all the detail where I had it out with another pro Skill Tree forum warrior. His last post, just a personal attack. Mine? Facts and figures.

But, you know, you are right, "Stay the course, thousand points of light." Because losing about 1/5 of a small player base does so much good for the game. As long as it MAKES YOU HAPPY.

Edit: I just want to make clear before I start to get quoted, I DO SEE POTENTIAL IN THE SKILL TREE, and do not want to go back to modules. But, it should have been a lot better than what we got BEFORE it was implemented. By the number of posts basically saying "Yeah, it needs fixing. But, I'm dealing with it." I think many of you would agree. You need to make sure they know it needs to be fixed.

Edited by KodiakGW, 23 September 2017 - 11:08 AM.

[adamts01]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 September 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

i keep hearing that respecs should be free, but i cant really think of a game that offers 100% free Respecs,

I can't think of a game that penalizes you for grabbing a shotgun instead of a rifle. Once you own those nodes you should own them. Go ahead and crank up the cost a little, but this game is all about customization. Don't make me respec when I want to bring UACs instead of ACs.

[KodiakGW]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 23 September 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

Yeah, the new system is much, MUCH better than the old.

1)Removal of the old convergence node, that did NOTHING since 2012.
2)More varried, granular decisions can be made in regards to how you want your mech to be upgraded.
3)You can't just snag the one module or so you absolutely want... this prevents wholesale min/maxing.

That's 3 positive points to the new skill system over the nodes+modules we had before.

1) They could have removed that at any point and made it something else. They had plenty of other skills they could have done there. You know that quite well.
2) Granular meaning 1% and .75% nodes? That's pretty useless levels of granular. And don't forget the locking behind useless nodes.
3).PGI knows quite well that many people had locked builds. Especially the people who played in leagues. You were expected to have mechs ready to go. No, "hold on, I have to swap modules." Yes, people took their Radar Derp module off the mechs they were not playing, or done leveling, and put it on the mech they were playing. Just like you take weapons off mechs you did not like playing, but kept the mech because you never know what would happen the next balance pass. Just like you swap around cockpit items. Are we cheapskates because of those, or only because we swapped modules? I personally had at least a dozen Radar Derp modules, and 6+ Range and Cooldown of each most used weapons.

And before you even bring it up, PGI could have shelved the rule of three at any time. Plenty of good ideas were given to compensate for lost sales/grinding. One of which is sitting behind a $200+ paywall of the Civil War mechs. They will be selling a ton of those for MC when they finally stop that.

Edit: I just want to make clear before I start to get quoted, I DO SEE POTENTIAL IN THE SKILL TREE, and do not want to go back to modules. But, it should have been a lot better than what we got BEFORE it was implemented. By the number of posts basically saying "Yeah, it needs fixing. But, I'm dealing with it." I think many of you would agree. You need to make sure they know it needs to be fixed.

Edited by KodiakGW, 23 September 2017 - 11:03 AM.

[InfinityBall]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 September 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

i keep hearing that respecs should be free, but i cant really think of a game that offers 100% free Respecs,
many if not mostly all games ive played you have to pay to respec, its just a facet of what makes choices hard,

Uh, World of Warcraft?

[Bishop Steiner]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 23 September 2017 - 08:40 AM, said:

Look at what you're saying here, carefully.

You're essentially, asking for a change to the web because "I don't want to be forced to take things I don't want."

Which translates into: "I want to min-max my mech easier without having to compromise."

This, is what's lead to inherent balancing issues to begin with.

And what the skillwebs were specifically design to minimize. But of course most people want to minmax. It's easier.

[Lugin]

Andi Nagasia, on 23 September 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

i keep hearing that respecs should be free, but i cant really think of a game that offers 100% free Respecs,
many if not mostly all games ive played you have to pay to respec, its just a facet of what makes choices hard,

InfinityBall, on 23 September 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

Uh, World of Warcraft?

Dungeon Fighter Online as well.