47 replies to this topic

[panzer1b]

El Bandito, on 23 September 2017 - 09:55 AM, said:

CAC20 challenge done in 2 matches? That sounds highly implausible--unless both sides agreed to farm damages.

I beg to differ. I was trying to achieve the challenge originally using a hunch2c with dual ac20s, and was doing pretty lousy (200-300 dmg a game). I had ~1000 total on the event, and just said screw it, and put those 2 ac-20s on my MCII-2, and i had 14t and 8 slots leftover (after adding enough ammo to break 1K) so i just slapped 2 ERPPCs and 2 HS on it for the hell of it. First game in that on crimson, 1300 dmg, got the event right then and there (prolly ~100-200 of that was ERPPCs early game). Granted it required the perfect environment to work (sustained brawl, but also not being prioritized or focused right off teh bat and thus dying early), and i doubt this is something i could pull off reliably multiple games in a row (it was such a good game i actually used up like 6 tons of ammo with both ammo skills as well), but it is more then possible to break 1K using dual ac20s on clan if the stars align.

Ofc i still think the ac20 is a terrible weapon, possibly one of the worst clan ballistics after things like LBX 2/5 which make it actually good. Its completely obsoleted by the uac20 (1 less heat per shot on ac20 and thats it, everything else uac20 does better or same, and i dont think anyone runs the ac/uac20 on a laser boat where the 1 less heat actually comes into play).

That said, i actually enjoyed this event since it actually got me to try out all of the ballistics in game, for better or worse, and even if they are sub-par, at least i had my share of fun and good games with em.

Edited by panzer1b, 23 September 2017 - 08:12 PM.

[Jackal Noble]

panzer1b, on 23 September 2017 - 08:10 PM, said:

I beg to differ. I was trying to achieve the challenge originally using a hunch2c with dual ac20s, and was doing pretty lousy (200-300 dmg a game). I had ~1000 total on the event, and just said screw it, and put those 2 ac-20s on my MCII-2, and i had 14t and 8 slots leftover (after adding enough ammo to break 1K) so i just slapped 2 ERPPCs and 2 HS on it for the hell of it. First game in that on crimson, 1300 dmg, got the event right then and there (prolly ~100-200 of that was ERPPCs early game). Granted it required the perfect environment to work (sustained brawl, but also not being prioritized or focused right off teh bat and thus dying early), and i doubt this is something i could pull off reliably multiple games in a row (it was such a good game i actually used up like 6 tons of ammo with both ammo skills as well), but it is more then possible to break 1K using dual ac20s on clan if the stars align.

Ofc i still think the ac20 is a terrible weapon, possibly one of the worst clan ballistics after things like LBX 2/5 which make it actually good. Its completely obsoleted by the uac20 (1 less heat per shot on ac20 and thats it, everything else uac20 does better or same, and i dont think anyone runs the ac/uac20 on a laser boat where the 1 less heat actually comes into play).

That said, i actually enjoyed this event since it actually got me to try out all of the ballistics in game, for better or worse, and even if they are sub-par, at least i had my share of fun and good games with em.

That's some stars align stuff right there for sure from the way the C-AC20 handles/reloads/ optimal range etc. Also not really helping my case lol.
Akin to saying " yo bro I threw on 3 tons of ammo and got 4000 damage in a single match. The bullets ricoheted to and took out all the enemy mechs, so I got my Deathstar while I was at it."

Edited by JackalBeast, 24 September 2017 - 05:53 AM.

[panzer1b]

JackalBeast, on 24 September 2017 - 05:53 AM, said:

That's some stars align stuff right there for sure from the way the C-AC20 handles/reloads/ optimal range etc. Also not really helping my case lol.
Akin to saying " yo bro I threw on 3 tons of ammo and got 4000 damage in a single match. The bullets ricoheted to and took out all the enemy mechs, so I got my Deathstar while I was at it."

Actually, i ran the build (2 AC20 2 ERPPC MCII-2) a few more times just to see how it works, and i dont think its as much luck as it sounds. Now that game was special (its not that common to break 1K in solo quenue), but ive had quite a few 800+ dmg games in it, which means that the AC20 isnt as terrible as everyone may have thought (and im pretty sure its not the PPCs which never get used inside 400m unless im at 0% heat). Ive had my share of terrible games (ANY mech that is a brawler has the potential to do very badly if the enemy team never enters optimal range), but generally speaking, its a decent build that has its share of benefits as it run cooler then uac20, and it never jams which is a huge premium in a sustained fight (not like the MCII is actually agile enough to play the whole poking game well).

The issue is that ive ONLY been able to make it work in a dual mount, which severely limits the mechs it can even be used on to like assaults (and not all assault at that since you need to have 2 arm/ST mounts with no locked crap in them). SIngle AC20 is pointless as the UAC20 is like 2 AC20s, but with the possible risk of jamming (on any mech that has the ability to disengage from a brawl, there is no reason not to take the risk of jamming). Still, its at least comparable to the shotguns, since both of them spread, just AC20s have the ability to empty 100% of your fire into 1 component with good skill, somnething the LBX can never do outside of melee distance.

[Relishcakes]

Took a hunchie IIc and completed the AC 20 challenge, the rest i did on my cougar. Took an afternoon. The hardest thing about it? hitting small, fast moving mechs. the easiest thing about it? killing heavies/assaults who thought it was a solid plan to face tank an almost constant AC5 barrage while burning to death from 4 mlas and a Llas. the weapon system doesnt suck, it just has a use you're not used to.

[Jackal Noble]

Sigh.
What most still failed to acknowledge from my original thread was the disparity in the score requirements for the C-AC20 vs the C-UAC20 and C-LBX20.
The requirement was 2000 meanwhiler for the other two was 1000. Logic would have you place the higher score requirement on the weapons it is easier to score with. And it IS easierAND was easier to finish out the LBX20 and UAC20 challenge. Not just for me but for everyone.
This wasn't about getting it done, or about the AC20 being a crap system (still is, sorry panzer). I was really trying to stir the conversation about to what end and why would the requirement be set higher?
Is PGI admitting that it (CAC20) is garbage and as such set the score higher to increase the challenge?
OR
Were they actually doing metrics on in game performance, and being a lesser used weapon system (by a large margin) and wanted more data.

The CAC20.
It is without question, worst in it's viability in field and it's shot to shot performance. Sure panzer seems to have found a niche, but he is also a pretty good player so he can make about anything work.

[Nameless King]

JackalBeast, on 25 September 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

Sigh.
What most still failed to acknowledge from my original thread was the disparity in the score requirements for the C-AC20 vs the C-UAC20 and C-LBX20.
The requirement was 2000 meanwhiler for the other two was 1000. Logic would have you place the higher score requirement on the weapons it is easier to score with. And it IS easierAND was easier to finish out the LBX20 and UAC20 challenge. Not just for me but for everyone.
This wasn't about getting it done, or about the AC20 being a crap system (still is, sorry panzer). I was really trying to stir the conversation about to what end and why would the requirement be set higher?
Is PGI admitting that it (CAC20) is garbage and as such set the score higher to increase the challenge?
OR
Were they actually doing metrics on in game performance, and being a lesser used weapon system (by a large margin) and wanted more data.

The CAC20.
It is without question, worst in it's viability in field and it's shot to shot performance. Sure panzer seems to have found a niche, but he is also a pretty good player so he can make about anything work.

The requirement was set higher because the prize was the new rocket girl cockpit item.

[panzer1b]

JackalBeast, on 25 September 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

This wasn't about getting it done, or about the AC20 being a crap system (still is, sorry panzer). I was really trying to stir the conversation about to what end and why would the requirement be set higher?
Is PGI admitting that it (CAC20) is garbage and as such set the score higher to increase the challenge?
OR
Were they actually doing metrics on in game performance, and being a lesser used weapon system (by a large margin) and wanted more data.

The CAC20.
It is without question, worst in it's viability in field and it's shot to shot performance. Sure panzer seems to have found a niche, but he is also a pretty good player so he can make about anything work.

Ohh i never said the AC20 was good, i was just able to find ONE particular mech/build where it works not much worse then alternatives if i get the correct sort of game to use it in (i need to one, get into 400m to even start shooting it effectively, 2, i cant get focused too hard, and 3, i need to have a near constant supply of targets to shoot or i wont get any real damage done). Still, single AC20 is trash (not enough DPS, heavy, too many slots, ect), and even then dual UAC20s arent that great compared to something like dual gauss which is the staple ballistic on clan side on mechs that have tonnage and favorable hardpoint layout, and until clan gets some alternative high alfa PPFLD weapon that isnt the extremely heat inefficient ERPPC, i do not see this changing. I can dump all the raw damage i want out of a AC/LBX/UAC20, but that damage is never going to be as efficient at actually killing something as gauss would be (i can at mid range hit what i want to hit at least 75% of the time without beer in the system).

Actually, i think i know what the cAC20 is good for: masochists that want to prove to themselves and everyone else they are better then everyone else while using gimped crap to get there ...

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

King Alen, on 23 September 2017 - 08:29 AM, said:

It took 2 matches to get done, so not really a hardship.

It took my Mad Cat Mk11 about 6-8 matches to do this. Had some really good games and a couple of bad ones on open maps that I got caught out on trying to get in close.

Saying you can do 1000 pts a weapon per game is either really good/ really lucky or stretching the truth.