16 replies to this topic

[Kalimaster]

To the men who went back in to save lives at the Vegas Shooting. You saved many. The country owes you thanks for your bravery.

[Burning2nd]

Keep in mind only a good guy with a weapon, can stop a bad guy with a weapon

as you can see the media is doing a fine job of hacking this story to bits.. some spreading misleading story's and lies ... Don't loose focus on the people who stood and helped others... Don't forget about the people who in the face of death still had the capacity to disregard there own natural instinct to flee only to remain and assist. Not all hero's carry weapons and body armor and not all that carry weapons and body armor are hero's

as American media does its normal course, the focus will shift slowly over the next few days to other topics about control and law... where none of that matters... no law no restriction will stop this... This is a metal problem.. this is a people problem
In Europe they aren't trying to ban white vans are they?

please remember as you commune with people about this topic.. some will be very sensitive about it.. some will be down right crazy...

my condolences to all that had to witness this mass movement of hate and pain

[Lily from animove]

Burning2nd, on 04 October 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

Keep in mind only a good guy with a weapon, can stop a bad guy with a weapon

as you can see the media is doing a fine job of hacking this story to bits.. some spreading misleading story's and lies ... Don't loose focus on the people who stood and helped others... Don't forget about the people who in the face of death still had the capacity to disregard there own natural instinct to flee only to remain and assist. Not all hero's carry weapons and body armor and not all that carry weapons and body armor are hero's

as American media does its normal course, the focus will shift slowly over the next few days to other topics about control and law... where none of that matters... no law no restriction will stop this... This is a metal problem.. this is a people problem
In Europe they aren't trying to ban white vans are they?

please remember as you commune with people about this topic.. some will be very sensitive about it.. some will be down right crazy...

my condolences to all that had to witness this mass movement of hate and pain

yes but a bad guy without a gun or rifle is having a harder time killing a lot of people easily.

[Kalimaster]

I said nothing about a weapon here. I was commenting on those who risked their life to help others. The dude had a machine gun, a weapon that civilians cannot purchase. So the gun debate is out the window. Talk to the guys who supplied the weapons to others through the Fast and Furious and other government exploits on this.

Now back to caring.

P.S. The guys in the trucks did not use guns. Mass murder does not require a conventional weapon.

Edited by Kalimaster, 04 October 2017 - 08:54 AM.

[Burning2nd]

He did not have a machine gun.. He had a ar-15 and an ar-10... (that's what he used to fire with)

I also have those same 2 weapons.. i bought them legally @ the store for less then 1000$ each.

the bump stop trigger assist he bought was also bought legally

"Tannerite"


legally obtainable wall-mart grade explosive

"talk to the guys who supplied the weapons and others through the fast and furious Government exploits"

DAMN RIGHT! this is the only way your going to change this.. this is the only logical answer

[RedDragon]

Burning2nd, on 04 October 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

In Europe they aren't trying to ban white vans are they?

But they banned guns. And well ... it worked.

Naturally you can't stop mad people from harming others if they desire so. But you can make it a lot harder for them.
Yes, there are quite a lot of terrorist attacks in Europe, but mainly they are planned by large and well connected groups of people with a lot of criminal energy. What we see in America, on the other hand, are individuals who just go nuts from one day to the next and decide to take a lot of people with them. This is something that is virtually unknown in Europe because it's so hard to get a gun there. And if guns are involved, it's virtually never something bigger than a handgun so the number of victims is always relatively low. Whereas in America? As the recent tragedy showed, the number of victims basically is only limited by the amount of ammo the shooter can carry.

If you want to keep your precious arsenals, fine. But then be honest enough and take the responsibility and don't try to claim that tragedies like the one in Vegas are "inevitable". Or to quote The Onion: "No Way To Prevent This", Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens.

[Burning2nd]

no offense... but i dont think Germany can participate in this conversation

Germany has one of the highest rates of gun ownership worldwide, yet also one of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths
one of the most stringent in Europe
But even given Germany’s strict gun policies, the country was still home to the fourth-highest number of legal guns per capita in 2013, falling behind just the United States, Switzerland and Finland.
One of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths worldwide
In 2002, a 19-year-old expelled from his high school in Erfurt brought a semiautomatic pistol to the school and killed 16 people before killing himself.

like i said this is a people problem not a gun problem.. i applaud Germany for steping up and not blaming guns.. but blaming people and changeing laws and changing people

[Lily from animove]

Burning2nd, on 04 October 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

no offense... but i dont think Germany can participate in this conversation

Germany has one of the highest rates of gun ownership worldwide, yet also one of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths
one of the most stringent in Europe
But even given Germany’s strict gun policies, the country was still home to the fourth-highest number of legal guns per capita in 2013, falling behind just the United States, Switzerland and Finland.
One of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths worldwide
In 2002, a 19-year-old expelled from his high school in Erfurt brought a semiautomatic pistol to the school and killed 16 people before killing himself.

like i said this is a people problem not a gun problem.. i applaud Germany for steping up and not blaming guns.. but blaming people and changeing laws and changing people

*highest*

but compare tha relations, 5,4 million guns vs 82,6million inhabitants so one opf 15 people, and those ownign guns mostly have multiples that makes the true atio of people owning gusn a LOT lower. While inthe USA by some numbers I found (but they were 2007) where like 112 guns per 100 capita are owned.

So the true number is rather low of normal people havign guns, because it's mostly hunters 380k in egrmany who then have multiple weapons usually. then theres like 180k police, (not wure how many own a guna nd if this geoe sinto your legally owned statistics) btu this also quite strongly reduces the amount of regular people having guns. In the US you can basically be rather sure that every second houshold or even more has a gun which also means every member of it can access it.

you can also try to google translate http://www.deutschla...ticle_id=346481

shows some quite nice numbers about a lot stuff. A statistic of 2014 says theres 5,5 Million legal guns distributed to 1,45Million owners. and with 82,6 million inhabitants thats just one out of 56 having a gun.

And thats the difference, if someone goes mad for some reason in some short circuit reaction he is extremely unlikely one having a gun and if they are only handguns (excluding people beeign hunters), vs america where people mostlikely have a gun and then of much different kind in terms of possible damage.

[RedDragon]

Burning2nd, on 04 October 2017 - 04:26 PM, said:

no offense... but i dont think Germany can participate in this conversation

Germany has one of the highest rates of gun ownership worldwide, yet also one of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths
one of the most stringent in Europe
But even given Germany’s strict gun policies, the country was still home to the fourth-highest number of legal guns per capita in 2013, falling behind just the United States, Switzerland and Finland.
One of the lowest rates of gun-related deaths worldwide
In 2002, a 19-year-old expelled from his high school in Erfurt brought a semiautomatic pistol to the school and killed 16 people before killing himself.

like i said this is a people problem not a gun problem.. i applaud Germany for steping up and not blaming guns.. but blaming people and changeing laws and changing people

We have about 2,3 million gun licenses in Germany. As of last year, the National Weapons Register claimed that there are about 1 million people that own a license and at least one gun. That means not even 1 in 80 people owns a gun over here. In the USA, there are more than 300 million weapons in use, approximately every third adult possesses at least one gun.
Yes, we have tragic shootings like the one in Erfurt (that kid shouldn't have had the guns at all btw, he obtained them with faked documents and the officials should have confiscated them, it could only happen because of a series of oversights and bad luck - and after that gun laws were made even stricter). Back then 16 people were shot and it was one of the greatest tragedies around here. In the USA, there are on average about 90 gun related deaths every single day.

I just can't fathom how people refuse to draw a connection between gun ownership and deaths by guns. It's a totally other question what the US could do about it, but as long as people are too dumb or stubborn to accept that the US has a massive gun problem, nothing will change.
I can guarantee you, if you armed half of Germany, we would have at least so much gun deaths as the US, if not more. That's why I am so god damn glad we don't, so I can go out on the streets without worrying that some nutjob has a bad day and decides to go on a killing spree. It's bad enough that nearly anyone can get a driver's license - there are so many idiots out there that never should be allowed to drive a car. If I imagine such people having free access to firearms ... God have mercy.

Edited by RedDragon, 05 October 2017 - 01:19 AM.

[Burning2nd]

So........ Im not sure where your going with that

Its true that there are a lot of weapons in the Untied States, Id expect 1 per household to be a pretty accurate number giver or take some %

But i don't see how any of that is relevant to people have head problems... (i mean unless living in a hotel gambling living this weird extravagant life of party atmosphere someone seems normal to you)
people being pumped full of pills?, i cant wait to see the autopsy, i wouldn't be surprised if the media trys blaming this on marijuana

[Burning2nd]

RedDragon, on 05 October 2017 - 01:18 AM, said:

(that kid shouldn't have had the guns at all btw, he obtained them with faked documents and the officials should have confiscated them, it could only happen because of a series of oversights and bad luck - and after that gun laws were made even stricter).

so tell me again how people who intend on not following the law feel about the law... making it harder for normal people, who follow law to obtain weapons, is going to help how?

anyone notice how the talk of class 3 FFL has dried up? cause everything that was said about "people walking around with machine guns" was a bs media story

People are getting sick of the fear mongering from the media,

[Burning2nd]

And at the end of the day what is it that you would have done? go door to door and ask for weapon collection?

It will never happen.. weapon sales is a big number... war is profitable and with a armed civilian population invasion is impossible.. What is it that you would see fit to do? bankrupt the country collecting weapons? change nato's use of the most popular ammo type in the world? weapons dont kill people, people with weapons kill people..

knifes, white vans, neck ties, hell if i had to i could probably kill you with a cell phone

I think you have been fed by the media that in America you can talk in to a 7eleven corner store.. buy a pack of smokes a box of ammo and a weapon on your way to work.... Its not like that

[RedDragon]

Burning2nd, on 05 October 2017 - 01:24 AM, said:

So........ Im not sure where your going with that

Its true that there are a lot of weapons in the Untied States, Id expect 1 per household to be a pretty accurate number giver or take some %

But i don't see how any of that is relevant to people have head problems... (i mean unless living in a hotel gambling living this weird extravagant life of party atmosphere someone seems normal to you)
people being pumped full of pills?, i cant wait to see the autopsy, i wouldn't be surprised if the media trys blaming this on marijuana

The point is (and i thought it would be pretty obvious): If you arm one thrid of you population, you will have a frickin large number of armed people with mental problems, people on drugs, whatever. No guns means those people never get the chance to commit mass murder on such a scale.

As for you other post: Naturally, there will always be people who can circumvent the law if they want to. That does not mean we have to make it easier for them to do so. By your logic, we shouldn't outlaw theft or murder because, well, people are doing it anyway.

[Burning2nd]

RedDragon, on 05 October 2017 - 01:37 AM, said:

you will have a frickin large number of armed people with mental problems, people on drugs, whatever. No guns means those people never get the chance to commit mass murder on such a scale.

and that in it self.. is the problem.. how do you expect to rectify that? bankrupt the country going door to door? expect people to volunteer? make public gun drop off zones? the sheer logistical aspect is impossible

even if you stop manufacturing, your not going to be able to fix that

[Karl Streiger]

RedDragon, on 05 October 2017 - 01:18 AM, said:

there are so many idiots out there that never should be allowed to drive a car. If I imagine such people having free access to firearms ... God have mercy.

Amen to that

btw: this discussion seems as old as this subforum - Kali should have known that we jump in, but i don't think that any arguemnt will change his mind.
Nor was this about guns. As far as I did understand it it was about those that without gun came back to help - even with the danger of getting shot.

RedDragon has a point - availability of guns and rash action is a recipient for desaster

Of course you can take a kitchen knife, van or a bottle of 18 year old whiskey to hurt others - but guns are simpler and deadlier - tools of a coward
That this guy was - a coward - heck every ******* killing or hurting innocent people that don't have the means to strike back are cowards. (as written and deleted i wished that guy would have had the guts not to put a bullet through is empty brain case)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 05 October 2017 - 01:52 AM.

[Burning2nd]

I never understood why someone kills a bunch of people... then kills them self.. why not just kill your self and leave the other people out of it? ether way its the act of a coward, I have a friend who his father killed him self some years back. right when he was at the early stage of being a man.. really really really fk'd this kid up.. as a result his entire life kindda circles around that day he found his father dead... But yet somehow he still holds his father to be a "great" man...

Im over here like wtf dude your dads a pos... he completely screwed you and your sisters and your mom... how he is great?

a type of metal logic ill never be able to entertain

anyway we shouldn't be here talking about weapons.. (i do not like the word gun, ive got sprat guns paintballguns sand blaster guns) the media is already doing what i said it would do.. turning this in to a conversation about weapons.

the focus should be why the 200 calls of activity prior where disregarded, why the system does not act on info like that but sit around and wait for it to already be to late.

we should be talking about the men and woman, who as i said had the ability to disregard there own instinct to run and stopped and picked up strangers... out of all this someone saved a stranger and one of those sets of strangers will fall in love with each other

a marriage will come out of a act of hate... ironic right?

Edited by Burning2nd, 05 October 2017 - 02:03 AM.

[RedDragon]

Burning2nd, on 05 October 2017 - 01:45 AM, said:

and that in it self.. is the problem.. how do you expect to rectify that? bankrupt the country going door to door? expect people to volunteer? make public gun drop off zones? the sheer logistical aspect is impossible

even if you stop manufacturing, your not going to be able to fix that

How did the UK manage it? Or Australia? There are ways of doing it, obviously not over night, but you have to start somewhere. A huge first step would be to stop new guns from being distributed. Ban assault weapons, try to buy them back from the citizens, outlaw open carrying of weapons ... Basically the whole world managed to restrict gun ownership, why shouldn't the USA be able to do it?
But as long as neither your government nor the common man wants anything to change, I guess you still will be killing each other in a hundred years.