118 replies to this topic

[Fox With A Shotgun]

I understand that you're slower than lights and mediums. That's fine.

What's not fine is that somehow, at 5 minutes in, you have people STILL waddling their way to the middle of Polar Highlands map on Domination. People that are hanging back by the buildings on Plexus Domination. People that are hanging back by the first ramp in Crimson Straits while the enemies are pushing saddle hard. I'm not even in a fast-moving light. My Kit Fox barely moves faster than a TBR, and is often outrun by a LBK, yet it is often the first to arrive at the circle, and doesn't get any reinforcements for the next 3-4 minutes, if ever.

I don't know what drives fatmech pilots to do this, but I want to find out. Please. Just help me figure this one out. I honestly have no idea why it's happening so often recently, to the point where I've pretty much written off the friendly Charlie lance as enemy-light-mech-fodder. I honestly would like to think of the friendly Charlie lance as something more than that, but as it stands there's not much reason to think otherwise.

Lights and mediums can help get to the objectives quickly so that the team doesn't lose by caps, but heavies help to secure that front line so that we don't get pushed out. If you fatmech pilots want us to do our part properly (scouting for enemies, locking for LRMs, distracting the enemy, fighting off enemy backstabbers, etc.), then I think it's only equally fair that you fatmech pilots do your part as well by holding the front. Today's been a particularly frustrating exercise in teamwork as people seem to be 100% focused on getting the damned event objectives down as opposed to helping the team (and getting the event objectives anyway).

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Ok, so here's the thing.

Many pilots running slow assaults and heavies pick domination with no intention of ever getting in the circle. Instead they bring a long range loadout or LRMs or whatever and act like shooting into the circle will be like shooting fish in a barrel. They then exploit whoever is actually trying to win the match, usually horribly outclassed scouts, who sit in the circle taking hits for them, occasionally getting locks, and extending the match rather than giving it up. This gives them time to just rack up DPS against targets too far to fight back who are more focused on getting an easy kill anyway.

Once the scout in the circle dies the game ends within the minute, as no one else walks in the circle.

[Bombast]

You don't know joy in this game until you play a match where your 60kph MRM Catapult makes it to the Domination circle first.

But alas, that's pug life. It's the culmination of long range dominance, minimum engine/maximum firepower builds, and extreme cowardice. You just gotta roll with it.

[chucklesMuch]

I don't know if it's just fatmechs? Perhaps mindset as well?

As I've been in fatmechs (and not the fast ones) and wondered why not even the lights (if any), mediums or fast heavies seemed to be able to keep up. They being far from enemy/objective.

Some map sides+pugs dont help fatmechs like mining; where one side tends to group up on fatties, the other side view charlie lance like they have a contagious disease.

Grim plexus assault can be bad for woddling fatties (or perhaps for the rest of the team), when charlie lance decides to go the long way around the rocks. (not sure if timidity, wrong turn or some tactic I'm missing).

[Dee Eight]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 10 October 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

I understand that you're slower than lights and mediums. That's fine.

mAYBE stop playing nothing but kit foxes ?

[InvictusLee]

Just headshot them. Problem solved.

[El Bandito]

Fatties are very hard to reposition, once caught out in the open. Which means Assault pilots must be extra careful when committing to any maneuvers.

[InvictusLee]

El Bandito, on 10 October 2017 - 10:35 PM, said:

Fatties are very hard to reposition, once caught out in the open. Which means Assault pilots must be extra careful when committing to any maneuvers.

I am of the strong belief that fatties should be fast unless your running a troll build that your team supports.
Even my king-crabs roll at around 60kph, and thats great! If your mech goes slower than that, you should probably drive something else.

[El Bandito]

November11th, on 10 October 2017 - 10:44 PM, said:

I am of the strong belief that fatties should be fast unless your running a troll build that your team supports.
Even my king-crabs roll at around 60kph, and thats great! If your mech goes slower than that, you should probably drive something else.

Some people just love their Direwhales, and Annis. Aint gonna tell them to not bring it in QP.

[The Lurm Wurm]

Oh, rest assured, it's not just fatties.

I've been first to the circle in my 75 KPH Archer.

It's just rank cowardice; baddies more concerned with protecting their precious K/D than winning the match.

[LordNothing]

El Bandito, on 10 October 2017 - 10:35 PM, said:

Fatties are very hard to reposition, once caught out in the open. Which means Assault pilots must be extra careful when committing to any maneuvers.

there is careful and there is bad. you can tell the difference by counting the covered areas between that mech and the front. if this number is more than 3 (and especially if his full approach is completely covered), then he might very well be a potato.

in fact if the op feels exploited in his kitfox he should just avoid the circle and go look for the assaults on the other team that are doing the same and go for a backstab run. if enough people do this, then perhaps people will stop being bad with their assault mechs.

[Johnny Z]

I blame it on man children.

Edited by Johnny Z, 11 October 2017 - 12:16 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Actually its just the other way round most of the time.
Its the runarounds and "get in the circleyounonothinghowtoplaythisgamemodeguys" that try to rush things don't pay respect to the consistence of their team because they want to either rant about how coward and noobish their team is or quick success because by chance everyone moves fast and mindless just into the circle.

It's those guys rushing into the circle alone causing an early kill advantage for the enemy.

Don't mix gruff or brusqe behavior with "know what he is doing"

I've got my best matches when my group waited in cover just outside the circle and pushed in when a good portion of the enemy was stupid enough to go inside without cover. --> 3 or 4 quick kills and then eady mode from there.

It is much better to get a good position where you can shoot into the circle then to rush in when you notice your team is of the slower kind.

In Qp it is always best to get the numbers rather than follow stupid patterns or the "W for win mindless aggressive" playstyle.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

El Bandito, on 10 October 2017 - 10:35 PM, said:

Fatties are very hard to reposition, once caught out in the open. Which means Assault pilots must be extra careful when committing to any maneuvers.

Especially with the latest changes and 'fixes' that made clan high-duration vomit reach heights previously not imaginable. Assaults have less survivability than meds now.

I've always been happy to bash hiding fatties, but that's currently the best thing they can do on the battlefield. You show your head now in a fatty, you're cored. Smaller mechs can shield/avoid enough of that alpha with proper skill in shielding and being ready for the vomit to go your way, fatties are just too slow for that.

[Jun Watarase]

>assaults push
>rest of team stays back and assaults die

>assaults push
>cant cool down fast enough
>overheat and die
>people complain that the assaults die too fast

>stop pushing to cool down behind cover
>people complain assaults stopped pushing

The problem is QP.

[Shifty McSwift]

Jun Watarase, on 11 October 2017 - 01:06 AM, said:

>assaults push
>rest of team stays back and assaults die

>assaults push
>cant cool down fast enough
>overheat and die
>people complain that the assaults die too fast

>stop pushing to cool down behind cover
>people complain assaults stopped pushing

The problem is QP.

Plus a million other scenarios, and that problem comes in at the lack of pregame coordination for QP, too many potential different clashing mech builds and playstyles as well as tactics that won't gel with certain builds etc.

That's one of the main reasons I think it is a madhouse, though pregame coordination wouldn't save all situations and could obviously be done in annoying ways, but it is pretty essential to not ending up with chaos at least half the time.

[Vellron2005]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 10 October 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

I understand that you're slower than lights and mediums. That's fine.

What's not fine is that somehow, at 5 minutes in, you have people STILL waddling their way to the middle of Polar Highlands map on Domination. People that are hanging back by the buildings on Plexus Domination. People that are hanging back by the first ramp in Crimson Straits while the enemies are pushing saddle hard. I'm not even in a fast-moving light. My Kit Fox barely moves faster than a TBR, and is often outrun by a LBK, yet it is often the first to arrive at the circle, and doesn't get any reinforcements for the next 3-4 minutes, if ever.

I don't know what drives fatmech pilots to do this, but I want to find out. Please. Just help me figure this one out. I honestly have no idea why it's happening so often recently, to the point where I've pretty much written off the friendly Charlie lance as enemy-light-mech-fodder. I honestly would like to think of the friendly Charlie lance as something more than that, but as it stands there's not much reason to think otherwise.

Lights and mediums can help get to the objectives quickly so that the team doesn't lose by caps, but heavies help to secure that front line so that we don't get pushed out. If you fatmech pilots want us to do our part properly (scouting for enemies, locking for LRMs, distracting the enemy, fighting off enemy backstabbers, etc.), then I think it's only equally fair that you fatmech pilots do your part as well by holding the front. Today's been a particularly frustrating exercise in teamwork as people seem to be 100% focused on getting the damned event objectives down as opposed to helping the team (and getting the event objectives anyway).

Here's a few points that can explain things for you:

1) I often run a SNV - with the biggest engine I can put in it, I run at 58-ish Kph. Not very fast. So yeah, It takes me a while to get to the circle.

2) Some maps I go to the circle, but some maps the circles are a deathtrap for a slow assault. You simply CANNOT move fast enough to evade incoming LRM and ERLL fire. So I don't go there, and instead support the people who do with suppression fire, UAV's, shot calling, and target locking.

3) Domination mode is a last resort mode, preferable only to Escort and Incursion. The only maps where Domination is a "first pick" mode is Polar (because they keep the enemy in a general area, usually tightly packed) and Frozen City (where a LRM boat can be put to tremendous use as a true artillery unit and shoot enemies like fish in a barrel). The rest are simply not good for domination, and I usually do go to the circle on most.

4) Keep in mind that on some maps spawn points are so horribly broken that even a fast light can be late to get to the circle, without the enemy already capping half way.

5) The matchmaker sucks. I've had drops where my team literally did not have a single light, only assaults, heavies and a medium or two, while the enemy had a bunch of locusts and cheetahs.

6) Domination is basically skirmish on a countdown. It exploits player preferences of rushing to the center of the map and brawling. Just like on conquest, assault, or Incursion, some people simply choose or forget, so they play it like skirmish, ignoring objectives entirely.

7) In a FP domination match, most people run a lot of heavy slow mechs. It is possible that after loosing the first wave, you simply DO NOT have enough time to reach the circle (on polar especially), because the map is too big. It sucks.

Conclusion:

Most maps are not optimized for domination, and the matchmaker is a joke, so yeah.. stupid things happen.. that's the state of the game.. Don't blame the slow assaults. We probably did not vote domination.

[Lykaon]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 10 October 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

I understand that you're slower than lights and mediums. That's fine.

What's not fine is that somehow, at 5 minutes in, you have people STILL waddling their way to the middle of Polar Highlands map on Domination. People that are hanging back by the buildings on Plexus Domination. People that are hanging back by the first ramp in Crimson Straits while the enemies are pushing saddle hard. I'm not even in a fast-moving light. My Kit Fox barely moves faster than a TBR, and is often outrun by a LBK, yet it is often the first to arrive at the circle, and doesn't get any reinforcements for the next 3-4 minutes, if ever.

I don't know what drives fatmech pilots to do this, but I want to find out. Please. Just help me figure this one out. I honestly have no idea why it's happening so often recently, to the point where I've pretty much written off the friendly Charlie lance as enemy-light-mech-fodder. I honestly would like to think of the friendly Charlie lance as something more than that, but as it stands there's not much reason to think otherwise.

Lights and mediums can help get to the objectives quickly so that the team doesn't lose by caps, but heavies help to secure that front line so that we don't get pushed out. If you fatmech pilots want us to do our part properly (scouting for enemies, locking for LRMs, distracting the enemy, fighting off enemy backstabbers, etc.), then I think it's only equally fair that you fatmech pilots do your part as well by holding the front. Today's been a particularly frustrating exercise in teamwork as people seem to be 100% focused on getting the damned event objectives down as opposed to helping the team (and getting the event objectives anyway).

Well it's obviously a deep need to have their team mates "share armor" and by that I mean "better you than me".

I have played several matches with and against you. I actually like seeing you on my team because I know that at least one other player will be playing the objective and trying to win the match instead of being so overly cautious to the point of being a detriment to winning.

I actually had to stop playing today after finding team after team of cowardly cover humpers who seemed incapable of actually engaging the enemy.

When in all three of the domination matches I played in my Rifleman being the first and only mech to get on the point (with it's astounding speed of 70 kph) only to get disassembled by the enemy team once they see I am the only target they need to fight (or can see) because my team is half a kilometer away finding the deepest darkest holes to cover up in.

Well I wasn't getting much out of it with low payouts and terrible match scores. so I logged out in hopes of getting better teams later.

[Lykaon]

The Basilisk, on 11 October 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

Actually its just the other way round most of the time.
Its the runarounds and "get in the circleyounonothinghowtoplaythisgamemodeguys" that try to rush things don't pay respect to the consistence of their team because they want to either rant about how coward and noobish their team is or quick success because by chance everyone moves fast and mindless just into the circle.

It's those guys rushing into the circle alone causing an early kill advantage for the enemy.

Don't mix gruff or brusqe behavior with "know what he is doing"

I've got my best matches when my group waited in cover just outside the circle and pushed in when a good portion of the enemy was stupid enough to go inside without cover. --> 3 or 4 quick kills and then eady mode from there.

It is much better to get a good position where you can shoot into the circle then to rush in when you notice your team is of the slower kind.

In Qp it is always best to get the numbers rather than follow stupid patterns or the "W for win mindless aggressive" playstyle.

tick tock tick tock

While everyone is waiting around the clock is ticking

30 seconds
20 seconds
10 seconds
5
4
3
2
1

LOSS!

Someone needs to anchor if the enemy has done so. It's a limitation of the game mode. I have seen several Dominations where noone from my team anchors the point long enough for anyone to get into possition to actually fight.

tick tock... someone needs to hold the clock.





I have no problem doing this as long as my team does actually come to fight rather than park half a kilometer away and watch me get smoked and waits out the clock to secure the loss.

Edited by Lykaon, 11 October 2017 - 02:36 AM.

[Lykaon]

Jun Watarase, on 11 October 2017 - 01:06 AM, said:

>assaults push
>rest of team stays back and assaults die

>assaults push
>cant cool down fast enough
>overheat and die
>people complain that the assaults die too fast

>stop pushing to cool down behind cover
>people complain assaults stopped pushing

The problem is QP.

I agree because it's actually not a very complex issue to solve. You just need co-operation.

Assaults initiate a push...
Heavy mechs rotate forward of the assaults literally blocking fire if needed to allow assault mechs cooling time
Mediums pick off the weakened enemy
Lights sow confusion from flanks or rear picking off damaged or over heating enemy mechs


Another attack formation players should learn is the wheel.

Slowest mechs are the "hub" and the "spoke" of the wheel is made up of mechs progressing outward from the "hub" in order of speed. Slowest closest to the center.

The hub is the anchor that dictates the place of the engagement. The spokes swing out clockwise or counter clockwise (depending on enemy possitions) to flush the enemy in front of the "hub" mechs.

If you enemy remains in possition and does not fall back (to end up in front of the "hub") the spoke wraps around the enemy formation encircling it and the HUB moves inward.

This gives the possitioning of the battle to the slowest mechs in the formation yet still leverages the speed of faster mechs.