22 replies to this topic

[Shifty McSwift]

So that is currently a potential thing, AC2, UAC2, and LB2X, all currently have the base projectile speed of gauss bullets, gauss being 2000 projectile speed it seems strange that AC2s mirror that speed to start with, in a way these are small gauss weapons that instant fire and cooldown very fast?

On top of that ACs and UACs can be boosted by up to 50% projectile speed through the skill tree and TCs, taking them to potentially 3000 current projectile speed.

Concerns, thoughts?

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 19 October 2017 - 03:21 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

I mean I don't even go lights and the thought of ac2 bullets travelling that fast concerned me for the little guys. Nobody else?

[FupDup]

If it were to happen, it should only happen to regular AC/2's instead of UAC/2's so that the former has a point in existing. Not everything with the same number in its weapon name has to have normalized weapon stats.

PGI had a great opportunity with the AC/10 and AC/5 in this patch but decided to also give an equal velocity buff to the Ultra equivalents because normalization is still the name of the game.

EDIT: I misinterpreted the OP (before it got edited).

Shifty McSwift, on 19 October 2017 - 02:58 PM, said:

I mean I don't even go lights and the thought of ac2 bullets travelling that fast concerned me for the little guys. Nobody else?

I wouldn't be too worried. The best weapons against lights are usually huge alpha strikes, particularly of the PPFLD variety. The AC/2 is a rapid-fire plinker that will generally not get all of its bullets into a single hitbox on a small/fast target regardless of velocity.

Edited by FupDup, 19 October 2017 - 03:23 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

FupDup, on 19 October 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

If it were to happen, it should only happen to regular AC/2's instead of UAC/2's so that the former has a point in existing.

I think I generally agree conceptually (acs need to be viable vs uac), but it is currently the case, lb2, ac2, uac2 all currently have 2000 projectile speed (same as gauss), and AC and UACs projectile speed can be boosted by both TCs and the skill tree, up to +50%.

[FupDup]

Shifty McSwift, on 19 October 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

I think I generally agree conceptually (acs need to be viable vs uac), but it is currently the case, lb2, ac2, uac2 all currently have 2000 projectile speed (same as gauss), and AC and UACs projectile speed can be boosted by both TCs and the skill tree, up to +50%.

Oh, the way this thread was framed made it sound like you were proposing it.

[Shifty McSwift]

FupDup, on 19 October 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

Oh, the way this thread was framed made it sound like you were proposing it.

I've edited the OP for clarity there.

[The6thMessenger]

With the 2000 m/s projectile speed, hitting targets isn't that of the concern for these weapons. Getting them at 3000 m/s, it's still not a concern, there's not much difference. Factor in all the skill that you wasted for those weapons that are already easy to hit with, and that 7 - 8 tons of TC that is wasted.

Of course for me the AC20 could be at a different story, get that to 1150 m/s, now that's a concern (at least for me).

Edited by The6thMessenger, 19 October 2017 - 03:29 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

The6thMessenger, on 19 October 2017 - 03:28 PM, said:

With the 2000 m/s projectile speed, hitting targets isn't that of the concern for these weapons. Getting them at 3000 m/s, it's still not a concern, there's not much difference. Factor in all the skill that you wasted for those weapons that are already easy to hit with, and that 7 - 8 tons of TC that is wasted.

Of course for me the AC20 could be at a different story, get that to 1150 m/s, now that's a concern (at least for me).

Sure similarly with the potential speeds of ac 10s and 5s too, I think you can push 5's to gauss speed now.

As for the extra 1000 being redundant there, IDK, we are talking about UAC streams too, their grouping is substantially reduced as an extra effect of that velocity.

[The6thMessenger]

Shifty McSwift, on 19 October 2017 - 03:37 PM, said:

Sure similarly with the potential speeds of ac 10s and 5s too, I think you can push 5's to gauss speed now.

As for the extra 1000 being redundant there, IDK, we are talking about UAC streams too, their grouping is substantially reduced as an extra effect of that velocity.

Well, yeah that is a concern.

Of course the take-away from that is you invested 7-8 tons and 7-8 crit-slots of TC, AND skill. Would that make an enough drawback? Cause remember that could have been another AC/UAC2, or 7-8 tons of ammo, or 7-8 heat-sinks.

[Shifty McSwift]

The6thMessenger, on 19 October 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

Well, yeah that is a concern.

Of course the take-away from that is you invested 7-8 tons and 7-8 crit-slots of TC, AND skill. Would that make an enough drawback? Cause remember that could have been another AC/UAC2, or 7-8 tons of ammo, or 7-8 heat-sinks.

Honestly one of my personal concerns is potentially making the massive ballistic boat assaults into turret mode snipers fighting at 1km. As they are the least impacted by TC space and weight concerns, and the most benefitted by them.

[The6thMessenger]

Shifty McSwift, on 19 October 2017 - 03:48 PM, said:

Honestly one of my personal concerns is potentially making the massive ballistic boat assaults into turret mode snipers fighting at 1km. As they are the least impacted by TC space and weight concerns, and the most benefitted by them.

They could do that with AC2s. Although higher say AC5, yes that seems to be a concern.

But the question would be, how effective would they be?

Supposed that we did 4x AC5: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b2fc3e7fce99d53

It's probably annoying, but it would have poor damage output for an assault.

[Y E O N N E]

I'm not concerned. You want a counterpart to large ERLL boats? UAC boats.

[Shifty McSwift]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 October 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

I'm not concerned. You want a counterpart to large ERLL boats? UAC boats.

That is an interesting thought, though will it play out like that, I guess time and testing will tell.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

It's nice, but it still doesn't change the fact that AC2 shells are about as effective as LRMs at taking down single components.

Now 3km/s ERPPC bolts, that's a different animal entirely.

[VitriolicViolet]

AC2s have been at 2000m/s for a very long time now. back in phase 3 i used to run a Zeus with a Gauss and AC2 because of the fact they had the same velocity.

[N0ni]

2000m/s is perfect for my mock MW4 Dire Wolf build (Srin Odessa's Solaris Dire Wolf: UAC/2 x6, 1 cGauss to sub for Srin's Heavy Gauss).

Not going to make sacrifices for something not worth it, but if you want to go ahead and try it... you do you bud.

[Davegt27]

not concerned took out my Jager with UAC2's yesterday to the training
grounds

pretty much the same as always until I overheated and shut down

[Y E O N N E]

Shifty McSwift, on 19 October 2017 - 04:52 PM, said:

That is an interesting thought, though will it play out like that, I guess time and testing will tell.

It's already playing out like that. UAC/2 beats out ERLL which beats out ERPPC at extreme range. The DPS of the UAC2 outstrips the surge from the ERLL which can more reliably apply damage than the ERPPC. ERPPC, in turn, counter the UAC/2 because the UAC/2 has to stay exposed the longest.

[Lukoi Banacek]

I enjoy dakka builds. My all time favorite for MWO really. That being said, no this doesn't concern me and I don't run a single U/AC2 based build in comp play at this point (MRBC, WC or NBT) so that means for at least, that they are fun in solo queue/group queue and FP but that's about it.

They are certainly of zero real concern to me when I'm in a light mech to be honest.

[Xetelian]

No. not at all concerned.

Of 91 mechs I have 1 with an AC2 and that is a Blackjack that came with them and just I haven't changed it. I really don't find them very effective, and if you're shooting 1000m you want them to get there as fast as possible or the weapon would be useless.